How Hormone Therapy Changes the Brain

[Rat]

In your world without others, there is no ASD.

I'm sorry but this is just blatantly wrong. Maybe if someone was really high functioning it would impact their life so little it would barely be a disability or something to even think about but autism is a biological fact. If you took a severely autistic person onto an island they would still be impaired severely.

In your world without genders or gender interaction, there are no genders. This is about subjective experience on an island with no other humans.
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Even if a trans person had zero contact with other people they would still experience gender dysphoria. Its not a matter of not liking how society treats you over your gender or liking more masculine or feminine things. Obviously trans people are severely impacted by gender roles but at the end of the day its about body structure and secondary sexual characteristics. I don't think you really understand this. You seem to think that being trans is about not liking the gender role/expectations you are expected to follow by society which is not at all what being trans is like. If this was the case physical transitioning would be pointless since if you have 0 issues with your body it would be pointless to physically transition and if you did you could just use therapy to not feel gender dysphoria anymore. However you CAN'T just use therapy to no longer have physical gender dysphoria since its a neurological issue and not a self-esteem issue.

... all I give a crap about is that people are not being invalidated... everything else is semantics and mental masturbation. Culture is our survival method as a species... you cannot abstract that away and still be human because human is a definition given by.... humans. Gender is a definition given by.... humans. Masculinity... is a concept of your culture. Femininity is a concept of your culture.

With this logic literally all science and scientific discussion is "semantics and mental masturbation". Showing the world that transpeople don't choose to be trans and that its a biological thing will help transpeople in the end a thousand times more than just going with "just let people do what makes them happy" and calling it a day and not at all looking into why people are trans. Honestly this attitude of saying that being trans is all about not liking gender roles is basically the same argument most transphobes have, you just think that transpeople should be allowed to transition while transphobes think they should be stopped.

you cannot abstract that away and still be human because human is a definition given by.... humans. Gender is a definition given by.... humans. Masculinity... is a concept of your culture. Femininity is a concept of your culture.

Masculinity and Femininity have a lot of bogus concepts attached to them through culture for sure but that doesn't mean that men don't generally act/think in a certain way and women don't think/act in a certain way generally either. Is liking blue an inherently male trait? of course not, that is cultural. Are men on average more aggressive than women? yes, not all men of course (there are certainly meak men and aggressive women) but overall there is a noticeable trend that most men on average tend to be more aggressive. Even male and female autistic people have different autistic traits and express autism in different ways.
As I said before, its not as black and white as male brain and female brain but there is obviously a correlation between sex and how the brain is effected by it. Sometimes that connection messes up and thats how you get trans people. Also with transpeople generally the desire to transition comes from the area of the brain that maps out your body to be like the opposite sex and not how masculine/feminine their personality is.

 

[Ursus Chainus]

I'm sorry but this is just blatantly wrong. Maybe if someone was really high functioning it would impact their life so little it would barely be a disability or something to even think about but autism is a biological fact. If you took a severely autistic person onto an island they would still be impaired severely.


Even if a trans person had zero contact with other people they would still experience gender dysphoria. Its not a matter of not liking how society treats you over your gender or liking more masculine or feminine things. Obviously trans people are severely impacted by gender roles but at the end of the day its about body structure and secondary sexual characteristics. I don't think you really understand this. You seem to think that being trans is about not liking the gender role/expectations you are expected to follow by society which is not at all what being trans is like. If this was the case physical transitioning would be pointless since if you have 0 issues with your body it would be pointless to physically transition and if you did you could just use therapy to not feel gender dysphoria anymore. However you CAN'T just use therapy to no longer have physical gender dysphoria since its a neurological issue and not a self-esteem issue.


With this logic literally all science and scientific discussion is "semantics and mental masturbation". Showing the world that transpeople don't choose to be trans and that its a biological thing will help transpeople in the end a thousand times more than just going with "just let people do what makes them happy" and calling it a day and not at all looking into why people are trans. Honestly this attitude of saying that being trans is all about not liking gender roles is basically the same argument most transphobes have, you just think that transpeople should be allowed to transition while transphobes think they should be stopped.


Masculinity and Femininity have a lot of bogus concepts attached to them through culture for sure but that doesn't mean that men don't generally act/think in a certain way and women don't think/act in a certain way generally either. Is liking blue an inherently male trait? of course not, that is cultural. Are men on average more aggressive than women? yes, not all men of course (there are certainly meak men and aggressive women) but overall there is a noticeable trend that most men on average tend to be more aggressive. Even male and female autistic people have different autistic traits and express autism in different ways.
As I said before, its not as black and white as male brain and female brain but there is obviously a correlation between sex and how the brain is effected by it. Sometimes that connection messes up and thats how you get trans people. Also with transpeople generally the desire to transition comes from the area of the brain that maps out your body to be like the opposite sex and not how masculine/feminine their personality is.

Yes... a person who is severely affected by ASD will likely not survive. Neither would an NT who is not. I am talking more about asperger's level ASD. I am saying for most of us (and I should have been clear about this) that what we have is a "social disability".

Being trans is biological AND cultural. I am saying these things are not separate for humans. Remember... this is being born on an island and never meeting another person. Dysphoria has a social and a biological component. I feel it would be much less severe (maybe non existent for many) if there was no social component.

>>You seem to think that being trans is about not liking the gender role/expectations you are expected to follow by society which is not at all what being trans is like. If this was the case physical transitioning would be pointless since if you have 0 issues with your body it would be pointless to physically transition and if you did you could just use therapy to not feel gender dysphoria anymore. However you CAN'T just use therapy to no longer have physical gender dysphoria since its a neurological issue and not a self-esteem issue.<<

I never said this and I do not feel this way. I feel that biology and culture are intertwined. I also feel that culture is part of being human on a biological level. You cannot remove that.

Remember... I have a child who is trans and although he is just one person... his dysphoria ended not with growing a beard or having an operation but with self acceptance. Culture prevents self acceptance.

Try watching the person you love most in this world going through what my child did and worrying every night about whether he would survive. Watch him cry when friends are mean because he is different. Please do not diminish my feelings about this. I care deeply about him and people who are suffering dysphoria. I never would look at their pain as JUST about liking or disliking gender roles. Some like gender roles and some don't... it is not what I am talking about.

 

[Rat]

Remember... I have a child who is trans and although he is just one person... his dysphoria ended not with growing a beard or having an operation but with self acceptance. Culture prevents self acceptance.
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Dysphoria doesn't go away just through self acceptance!!!!! I can NOT stress this enough. This is literally TERF tier, pro-conversion therapy logic. Just because your kid is trans doesn't mean you know what its like to be trans or an expert on trans issues. I'm sorry but you will NEVER understand what its like to have gender dysphoria. you will NEVER understand what its like to be trans. I understand you mean well with your opinion (and I have certainly seen parents of transpeople react way worse than you. You are a better parent than a ton of transpeople's parents) but its not entirely accurate.

 

[Ursus Chainus]

Dysphoria doesn't go away just through self acceptance!!!!! I can NOT stress this enough. This is literally TERF tier, pro-conversion therapy logic. Just because your kid is trans doesn't mean you know what its like to be trans or an expert on trans issues. I'm sorry but you will NEVER understand what its like to have gender dysphoria. you will NEVER understand what its like to be trans. I understand you mean well with your opinion (and I have certainly seen parents of transpeople react way worse than you. You are a better parent than a ton of transpeople's parents) but its not entirely accurate.

Ok... he told me it ended or is at least totally workable for him now.
That might be just him. He might have told me a lie because of my concern about him. When I say self acceptance... maybe I mean something different than you do and certainly something different that freaking terfs! I freaking hate terfs with every bit of my being because they attacked him.

Sometime words are different depending on who uses them. He has become comfortable with his body the way it is. I do know many trans people do not. I am not telling you how to feel or that self acceptance is some solution for everyone... it just helped my kid! Please do not yell. I am not a terf and I actually care. Self acceptance is the hardest thing I have ever done in my entire life! It is not some shrug of the shoulder and saying in some handwavey way that you just need to like yourself. It is a journey that lasts for life. I only know my child and his life, not yours. I am speaking to that. I also feel Culture is a MUCH bigger deal than most people think. It is the operating system that humans run in their brains... have you ever used a computer without an operating system?

Guess what? That is MY life. I have been in a room of aspies only to feel that they are totally normal and I am strange. Hell I don't even understand gender... I am THAT disordered in your world... not mine.

There is no JUST self acceptance... you have no idea how hard that is.

Please think before you yell... I am actually listening to you and trying to understand what you have to say. You matter to me. And I don't MEAN well... I never do. I simply try to understand the truth.

I know I will never understand what it is like to be trans, or a woman or a non-white guy or an NT or even a normal aspie. When you see someone trying... please help them to understand what you are going through. I really don't understand why you feel the need to yell at me. You are not the only one on this planet who is suffering because of what situation and what body and what mind they were born with. You just shut people down so they can't have a better understanding.

 

[Rat]

Ok... he told me it ended or is at least totally workable for him now.
That might be just him. He might have told me a lie because of my concern about him. When I say self acceptance... maybe I mean something different than you do and certainly something different that freaking terfs! I freaking hate terfs with every bit of my being because they attacked him.

Sometime words are different depending on who uses them. He has become comfortable with his body the way it is. I do know many trans people do not. I am not telling you how to feel or that self acceptance is some solution for everyone... it just helped my kid! Please do not yell. I am not a terf and I actually care. Self acceptance is the hardest thing I have ever done in my entire life! It is not some shrug of the shoulder and saying in some handwavey way that you just need to like yourself. It is a journey that lasts for life. I only know my child and his life, not yours. I am speaking to that. I also feel Culture is a MUCH bigger deal than most people think. It is the operating system that humans run in their brains... have you ever used a computer without an operating system?

Guess what? That is MY life. I have been in a room of aspies only to feel that they are totally normal and I am strange. Hell I don't even understand gender... I am THAT disordered in your world... not mine.

There is no JUST self acceptance... you have no idea how hard that is.

Please think before you yell... I am actually listening to you and trying to understand what you have to say. You matter to me. And I don't MEAN well... I never do. I simply try to understand the truth.

I know I will never understand what it is like to be trans, or a woman or a non-white guy or an NT or even a normal aspie. When you see someone trying... please help them to understand what you are going through. I really don't understand why you feel the need to yell at me. You are not the only one on this planet who is suffering because of what situation and what body and what mind they were born with. You just shut people down so they can't have a better understanding.

I apologize if I came across like I was yelling, I use bold/larger text to emphasis a point but I always forget that most people interpret this as yelling. I just really wanted to emphasis that you can't just self accept yourself out of being trans or having gender dysphoria since that opinion is very popular with a lot of people (a lot who mean well but don't realize that it doesn't work th

Also I dont get the impression that you yourself are a TERF or anything like that and was merely pointing out that some of the things you were saying had similarities to things that TERFs say.

 

[Au Naturel]

First. There is no such thing as a world without others. That kind of speculation is foolish.

Second, ASD is a biological phenomenon. It is as real as the color of your hair. It is as real as having sickle cell anemia. Society may create artificial consequences but the trait itself has natural consequences. Having ASD 3 in a prehuman environment would be lethal. Having ASD 1 might be lethal - or it might help you invent tools for digging grubs out of trees better. Human traits exist independent of an observer. If you had ASD 1 now, you almost certainly had it in the womb.

If a tree fell in a forest and nobody heard it, it still fell. Most of the universe is beyond our perception, yet it still exists. Just because nobody has put a label on something doesn't mean it isn't real. By your logic, Asperger's did not exist when I was a child because nobody labeled it as such. Nonsense. The characteristics were still there even if the label was different.

Behavioral differences based on sex - and not some greater society - exists in every species of mammals. Including mammals that are largely solitary. And most higher nonmammalian animals. It is absurd to imagine that pattern suddenly stopped with humans.

I guess you don't understand the nature of overlapping bell curves.

 

[Au Naturel]

Culture is not what holds humans together. Instinct holds us together. It is an instinct shared by virtually all humans. No different than a troop of apes or a pack of wolves or a herd of zebras. Culture is an artifact that results from larger brain size in an already social animal. If anything, culture is a tool we created to make life easier and reduce conflict.

 

[Rat]

First. There is no such thing as a world without others. That kind of speculation is foolish.

I think there is a certain degree of usefulness to think about it but you are also right that its a flawed way to go about things since its too abstract and not realistic.

 

[Au Naturel]

I think there is a certain degree of usefulness to think about it but you are also right that its a flawed way to go about things since its too abstract and not realistic.

Physicists sometimes reduce a system down to the simplest possible level to simplify the issues of testing a hypothesis but it is only a first step.

 

[Jonn]

I use bold/larger text to emphasis a point but I always forget that most people interpret this as yelling.

The 5 exclamation marks didn't help.

 

[Rat]

The 5 exclamation marks didn't help.

lol tbh

 

[Aspychata]

My daughter who has very strong aspects of autisim showed some different developments. First l did let her pretty much be a little boy doing a lot of physical type things. Toy Story was her choice not Cinderella. She wore cowboy boots and had a neat race car set. She had dolls and cars. Later she only wanted to wear pants which was fine with me. In high school, she did bind her chest and start a more transgender look by her junior year. She wanted to be identified by a non-specific gender name. l offered to change her name legally. She didn't do it. I never groomed her for marriage or told her what to do re: her appearance. She later decided to be more female at this point. But this was just acceptance on my part. Her high school was very tolerant of transgender and l am so thankful for l believed it helped her during this time. I am worried l may have lost her due to turmoil ongoing in our family dynamics.

 

[Au Naturel]

My daughter who has very strong aspects of autisim showed some different developments. First l did let her pretty much be a little boy doing a lot of physical type things. Toy Story was her choice not Cinderella. She wore cowboy boots and had a neat race car set. She had dolls and cars. Later she only wanted to wear pants which was fine with me. In high school, she did bind her chest and start a more transgender look by her junior year. She wanted to be identified by a non-specific gender name. l offered to change her name legally. She didn't do it. I never groomed her for marriage or told her what to do re: her appearance. She later decided to be more female at this point. But this was just acceptance on my part. Her high school was very tolerant of transgender and l am so thankful for l believed it helped her during this time. I am worried l may have lost her due to turmoil ongoing in our family dynamics.

I bought my daughter "boy-stuff" all the time but she always gravitated towards pretty shiny, even as a 3-year-old. Moved between "princess" and "gypsy" phases. As she turned into a teen she started wearing a lot of shapeless black stuff.

Now she's 30+ and still wearing the Goth look. She can fix a car, shoot a gun and a bow, ride a horse, and start an IV. Guys were intimidated as all heck by her. Just got married to a construction worker she's known for 8 years by a trans sea captain. Funny how things evolve.

 

[Thinx]

Trans is a term that encompasses a spectrum of varying identities, who may or may not choose to transition in physical ways to a different gender. For example, I identify as nonbinary, and to me this represents my experience of gender as not being binary, I don't feel a need or wish to be in a gender category. Transitioning from a biological female to a male wouldn't be an aim for me, because to me, so much of what is difficult about the 2 gender categories traditionally used, is not solved by doing that. There is a broad spectrum of trans identities and views, in my experience.

 

[Jonn]

For example, I identify as nonbinary, and to me this represents my experience of gender as not being binary, I don't feel a need or wish to be in a gender category.

I am still learning about all of this.
Do you have a sexual orientation?

 

[Thinx]

I had been gay many years before concluding gender just didn't fit, and in relation to the current state of play with gender norms I haven't redefined this even though the term is problematic in relation to my view of gender. We need more terminology that is generally understood.

On gender my identity is close to someone who is and who embraces, intersex. That's the term for people born with a mix of female and male sex attributes, who are generally shoehorned into a gender category, because hey, every one is male or female aren't they? Mentally, spiritually and or physically many of us are not.

 

[Jonn]

Tell me if I am being too invasive.

Are you talking about being a hermaphrodite?
Maybe you want to take this into PM?

 

[Thinx]

I am not intersex, but yes, it's the modern word encompassing what was meant by hermaphrodite, which is no longer used to describe this. People who are born intersex, may or may not relate to a binary gender assigned to them at birth.