How to tell someone off when they comment your behaviour?

[thejuice]

I am crabby though. Old soul.

 

[Rodafina]

How does one deal with an autistic person who claims that you're bad meaning if you don't make eye contact with them? Or anyone like that for that matter? It's a personal attack, I don't care what he's been through, he's attacking me now because of it and it's not okay. How do I tell such a person to stop? It's rude. That's collective bullying at this point, various people commenting my behaviour. I'm becoming anxious because of this, overly worried about presumed harm I have caused or presumed negative impressions I have made.

How do I tell people off so that they stop commenting my behaviour all the time? I feel like I'm letting them walk all over me, like I'm enabling that, but I don't know how I'm supposed to respond, what to say. All I can do is pretend to ignore or over explain myself, which invites invasive "advice" how I can "fix myself" when I explain where I'm coming from and why they're wrong.

What is the nature of the relationship with these people? I wonder why you continue to interact with them at all.

Telling people off takes a great deal of energy and will likely put you in a very negative headspace in the end.

Can you say something more along the lines of, "It's really hurtful to me when you say that. Can you please stop?" If that didn't put an end to it and I had the choice to stop interacting with them, that's what I would do.

Telling someone off for the negative way that they spoke to you just sounds like it will perpetuate the cycle of hurt, negativity, and not understanding each other at all. It sounds like this (these?) relationship(s) that you've described are entrenched in argument.

 

[vergil96]

I wonder why you continue to interact with them at all.

One person understood when I explained that I simply don't like making eye contact (oversimplification, but I don't want to discuss this with him), but it still hurts even though long time has passed. The other person I'm not mad at, but we don't talk any more for other reasons - we just stopped having things to talk about. However, there have been other cases that someone comments on my behaviour in what I perceive to be a rude way and I feel like this is becoming a pattern, so I want to learn how to set boundaries. I hope learning a few phrases by heart will be a good step forward. I feel like I'm a part of the problem by allowing that kind of situation to happen.

Telling someone off for the negative way that they spoke to you just sounds like it will perpetuate the cycle of hurt, negativity, and not understanding each other at all. It sounds like this (these?) relationship(s) that you've described are entrenched in argument.

You're making a good point, I didn't think about these relationships as adverserial and you surprised me that they can be viewed this way. There are positive sides to these relationships / frienships (not deep friendships, just casual ones), obviously, and I don't have many alternatives if I do want to talk with other people. And I do want to.

Can you say something more along the lines of, "It's really hurtful to me when you say that. Can you please stop?"

That's the kind of phrase I was looking for. For whatever reason, I find it hard to come up with adequate wording for some situations, that's why I'm asking.

 

[Outdated]

How you could use this in part of an explanation I don't know, but there's some cultures where looking directly in to a person's eyes is very rude and offensive. It says that you don't trust them. Some Australian Aboriginal people still live a hunter/gatherer life style and watching an animal's eyes is how you tell which way it's going to run next.

I never understood people's aversions to looking in the eyes, but I do understand that some feel extremely uncomfortable about it.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

There are some types of dancing where one looks steadily into your partner’s eyes. I find it thrilling, in this defined situation.

 

[Judge]

There are some types of dancing where one looks steadily into your partner’s eyes. I find it thrilling, in this defined situation.

You mean, "It takes two to tango" ? First thing I though of. High drama on the dancefloor.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't like when strangers stare at my eyes, it feels very creepy and uncomfortable. I avoid making eye contact with strangers if I can help it (unless they're directly interacting with me verbally). But I can feel when someone is staring and it makes me feel very unsettled. And no, they're not staring because I look like a potential murderer, because I look the opposite (timid, shy and pathetic). All I ask is to blend in to the background and not be noticed.

I remember I used to volunteer with a friendly guy who would often make small talk with me whenever he saw me in public places if he was passing, just friendliness. Then when he went on his way, everyone around me would stare at me. It really freaked me out, as I felt I was suddenly on stage or something. They'd just stare into my soul with blank faces after this guy had talked to me. Perhaps they all knew something about him that I didn't, but it's like 10 years later and I've had him on my Facebook page for longer than that and there doesn't seem to be any hint of criminality about him, he's just an ordinary chap who I used to do volunteering work with. He has a family, children, grandchildren, etc. But even if he was a wanted criminal about the town, strangers staring at me blankly isn't going to protect or educate me on anything. All it does is freak me out.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

You mean, "It takes two to tango" ? First thing I though of. High drama on the dancefloor.

Actually, the tango is a dance where partners do not look into each others eyes. In fact, they look away and almost look bored.

Dance drama does exist, though I try to stay out of most of it.

 

[Jonn]

I don't like when strangers stare at my eyes, it feels very creepy and uncomfortable. I avoid making eye contact with strangers if I can help it (unless they're directly interacting with me verbally). But I can feel when someone is staring and it makes me feel very unsettled.

Staring is different to looking.
Someone once said, that if you look at someone for more than 5 seconds, it could be considered a stare.
Most ppl don't like to be stared at.
I had to learn this late in life.

 

[Misty Avich]

I don't often stare at people, because I know it makes them uncomfortable, especially a stranger. So I don't expect people to do it to me unless I'm doing something really unusual like standing on my head, then I might expect people to stare because I'm actually doing something out of the ordinary.

 

[Jonn]

I don't often stare at people, because I know it makes them uncomfortable, especially a stranger. So I don't expect people to do it to me unless I'm doing something really unusual like standing on my head, then I might expect people to stare because I'm actually doing something out of the ordinary.

Spoiler

May I suggest you stop standing on your head?

This reminds me of a Groucho Max joke:

A man went to a doctor and told him that he had pain whenever he raised his arm.
The doctor replied by suggesting that he stop raising his arm. <boom tish>

Gender is another consideration when it comes to staring.
Women often feel ogled by men, so I have been told.

 

[Misty Avich]

Usually men don't stare at me, if they do I usually feel complimented. It's usually women that stare at me, and when that happens I feel judged.

 

[vergil96]

Most of us don't like to be seen as impolite and we don't like offending others, but save that for people you like and respect.

Fair point.

I had never seen that put in to words before, but that's a lesson I had to learn at a very young age. Never try to make excuses or apologise to a bully, that's the behaviour of a Victim. Do it even once and you'll find yourself doing it forever.

I disagree with comments above about not making waves, not rocking the boat. Honesty really is the best policy in these situations. Most of us don't like to be seen as impolite and we don't like offending others, but save that for people you like and respect.

Belittling others is the power tool of the control freak. Getting others to back down, especially if it's done in front of their friends, gives them a dopamine hit. As long as they get enjoyment out of it they'll keep doing it, and just like any drug addict they'll keep going for bigger and bigger doses.

You'll find a lot of these people working in middle management, they got there by being a bully. They never get any further than middle management because they're actually completely bloody useless at controlling people, they turn a few weak willed souls in to their little lackeys but alienate anyone who's confident in their own abilities.

Yeah, it looks like reinforcement, you let it pass and it encourages the behaviour or at least doesn't make them back off and since there was no punishment, they keep on doing that even more frequently.

In one place I was working they had hired a 16 year old kid and I took him under my wing. He was a good kid, easy to get along with, he worked hard, he never made the same mistake twice. Then out of the blue the supervisor came over and started abusing him about having a bad attitude. This is the standard bully power play, get someone stammering and apologising and then they're so much easier to control.

Fair point about apologising, I didn't think of it this way. One way or another, we all know that kind of people - those who come out of the blue and claim someone has a bad attitude when they clearly don't.

I feel like the people I have around me aren't the narcissistic type, but have their own problems, but I can't let them run all over me, "because this person has problems". Compassion doesn't mean I can't set boundaries. As I have already mentioned above, in their case lack of boundaries lets them know they're allowed to do certain things directed at me.

After that that supervisor no longer had any power over anyone. Everyone saw him for the bad joke that he was and he earned the nickname Limpy.

Huh, good shot

Shades of Jordan Peterson and his Alpha Lobster analogy.

This is true to a degree though, Peterson wasn't the one who first came up with the concept of social hierarchy based on confidence and perhaps a degree of abuse. One can argue that the feelings of confidence in both humans and animals arise from their situation such as health, ability to cope, ease facing difficulties. If you're strong and take on difficult situations easily, you're going to feel safe in the face of those situations, if you have difficulties, you'll be afraid and maybe rightfully will try to avoid them - if they're more harm than good, then why engage? Run away from harm.

 

[Hypnalis]

Shades of Jordan Peterson and his Alpha Lobster analogy.

His point is that the biological mechanisms for innate social hierarchies are very old, predating mammals.

If´t follows that it's natural and unsurprising that they exist in mammals. And that it's irrational to claim that human social hierarchies are learned "social constructs".

It may not have been completely successful in terms of results, but the logic is good: if giant insects that run entirely on instinct use the same biochemical mechanisms as mammals to achieve a similar result (social hierarchies), we should assume they are innate, and not pretend they're learned.

 

[Au Naturel]

His point is that the biological mechanisms for innate social hierarchies are very old, predating mammals.

If´t follows that it's natural and unsurprising that they exist in mammals. And that it's irrational to claim that human social hierarchies are learned "social constructs".

It may not have been completely successful in terms of results, but the logic is good: if giant insects that run entirely on instinct use the same biochemical mechanisms as mammals to achieve a similar result (social hierarchies), we should assume they are innate, and not pretend they're learned.

Yeah. Humans are not completely novel creatures. We have every instinct that existed in our immediate ancestors. The only difference is an expanded cortex that can do more tricks. We add a lot of learned behaviors to our instinctive behaviors. The latter may be modified by learning, but they are still just as strong.

Anti-anthropomorphism is just as great a scientific sin as anthropomorphism.

 

[thejuice]

Staring is different to looking.
Someone once said, that if you look at someone for more than 5 seconds, it could be considered a stare.
Most ppl don't like to be stared at.
I had to learn this late in life.

I think that's right if you're talking to someone. That is taken as a challenging stare down.
If you're listening people seem to like you staring and if you look away they think you're not listening or they get self conscious because they think they are making you feel uncomfortable. We are complicated creatures.
For people like Virgil, society needs to be more aware and understanding with their difficulty with eye contact, that eye contact repels them and not try to force a round peg into a square hole.
I try to have context appropriate facial expression and positive, open body language and not be frozen or ambiguous in any way

 

[Misty Avich]

I used to work with an autistic guy who would avoid making eye contact with you and sort of look towards one of your ears instead. As Aspie who does make eye contact I didn't really mind him doing that, as I still knew he was talking to me and he was friendly and likeable and everything. I don't see what problem people have with someone not quite making eye contact unless they're obviously looking away and seeming shifty, but this autistic guy didn't come across like that.

People say often people avoid eye contact when they're lying, but I can make eye contact even when I am lying, as though I'm not lying.

 

[thejuice]

People when your not quite making eye contact?

I sometimes look at dad's forehead wrinkle when he's talking at me

 

[vergil96]

Hey, I'd like to not derail this thread in the direcrion of the point of view that poor eye contact means lying. It deserves as much space as flat earth "theory" and healing with pendulum. There is exactly zero ground for it and it's rooted in prejudice to people who aren't quite like the average person, similarly to racism and homophobia. If someone gay talks about their coming out or something else that happens in their life related to being gay, introducing a homopobic point of view such as "gay people are pedophiles" to the discussion and arguing with it, doesn't add anything to the discussuon and gives a voice to these ridiculous arguments.

 

[Misty Avich]

I just heard Aspies on forums say that they've often been accused of lying because of not making eye contact, and often point out that lacking eye contact can "freak NTs out" and make them think the person is lying or is being sly or something. I'm not saying it's true but it's just what I've read on autism sites. I've never been told that by an NT but that's because I don't have difficulty with making eye contact.

Also I remember an autistic man once telling me that he got arrested because he didn't make eye contact when a policeman was interrogating him as a witness of an incident. Had he of made eye contact the policeman would have believed his words and let him go, but because avoiding eye contact was part of his autism it made the policeman become suspicious that he might have been in on the incident rather than an innocent witness (although he was an innocent witness). It was unfair of the policeman to base judgement on the eye contact and he even told the policeman that he's autistic. I feel sorry for him because he often gets mistreated for lacking eye contact.