I am giving up most refined sugars.

[Metalhead]

I discovered that I have more energy if I drink my homemade unsweetened iced tea instead of Mountain Dew.

I did have one friend express concern that I was going about this with “all or nothing/black and white” thinking, though.

 

[Boogs]

One word:

Spoiler

Fatty Liver...
OK, two words...

Also, my MD recommended to stay off fruit such as grapes if you are diabetic.

Medical conditions are an exception, which is why I said 'safe for most people'; qualified professional I most certainly ain't!
But as I understand, the primary danger with fructose in general is taking in more than a certain safe threshold, which can vary from person to person, and also is in context of what is eaten/drunk that contains it.

As a rule we're evolved to process fructose in fruits as part of our regular diet without issue. A great many UPF's lack the fibre and whatever else needed to naturally make the body feel satisfied and satiated after eating, so the tendency is for people to over consume ultra processed foods and drinks, and this is one of the aim's of these UPF's since if the consumer eats more then the supplier sells more.

And with artificial sweetening having such a powerful effect on promoting over consumption, these foods tend to have rather high levels (not to mention high salt levels etc). For example - some well known brand of take-away sell a single regular sized pizza that contains a whole days worth of calories or more, and those can be stuffed down with ease for many people, making it seem innocuous.

I did have one friend express concern that I was going about this with “all or nothing/black and white” thinking, though.

Personally, with trying to break bad habits, I found if it was a struggle at all, making small but deliberate improvements worked much better mostly - the big all-or-nothing attempts were often just set up to fail. But a small win is a confidence boost, less likely to fail, and a model of success on which to base the next small win. Also a 'failure' isn't a failure, but rather a learning experience when doing something new - finding out how you respond to various changes to discover what works and what doesn't - experimentation, and again, small changes fits that paradigm too.
And with something like sugar reduction it's not too hard to identify the worse types so a small change can have a disproportionally high benefit. e.g. most flavoured bottled or canned drinks are among the worse UPF's in general, and loaded with sweeteners and other rubbish.
Replace with something like sparkling mineral water with a little sucrose based fruit syrup cordial - if it makes it more attractive; a small amount of sucrose, say the few grams in a small portion of fruit cordial, is nothing compared to the 77g of sugars in the Mountain Dew. So it could be a relatively small change that drops massive amounts of sugar from your diet (depending on previous intake of Dew of course).

 

[Jonn]

As a rule we're evolved to process fructose in fruits as part of our regular diet without issue.

I watched a youtube video on this.
Unfortunately, the lifestyle thousands of years ago is very different than today, obviously.

BTW, half the sugar/carbs is converted into the nasty fructose, and it is fructose that causes the major health issues, fatty liver being one of them.

Cirrhosis of the live is generally considered a result of ingesting alcohol.
Now it has been established that carbs ingested over prolonged period and in quantities also damage the liver.

Carbohydrate intake and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease: fructose as a weapon of mass destruction​

Carbohydrate intake and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease: fructose as a weapon of mass destruction

 

[Jonn]

I discovered that I have more energy if I drink my homemade unsweetened iced tea instead of Mountain Dew.

After the sugar rush, ppl often feel sluggish later.

Are ‘sugar crashes’ real?​

Yes and no. A “sugar crash” isn’t really a medical term, but many people use this phrase to describe the feeling of sluggishness that can happen shortly after eating a lot of carbohydrates.

Reported symptoms of a “sugar crash” include:

• A sudden feeling of tiredness
• Brain fog
• Trouble concentrating

And studies have confirmed that people do tend to feel more tired and less alert in the hour after eating carbohydrates.

https://www.goodrx.com/well-being/diet-nutrition/are-sugar-high-sugar-crash-real

In a nutshell:
Carbs are bad...
And very addictive...
For me, at least...

Maybe you really feel like you get a burst of energy from eating a favorite doughnut. So what’s going on? Well, that feeling you get may have less to do with blood sugar and more to do with the fact that sugar causes the brain to release dopamine and opioids — chemicals that give you a feeling of pleasure.

The jolt of energy you feel is likely from the jolt of dopamine, the same chemicals released with other addictive triggers (like alcohol or smoking). In fact, a growing body of research shows that sugar affects the brain in a similar way as other addictive substances — by lighting up pleasure centers and creating cravings for more.

https://www.goodrx.com/well-being/diet-nutrition/are-sugar-high-sugar-crash-real

Keep in mind, different sources have different explanations about how the craving is created.
As stated previously elsewhere, the body can/may react to the sudden reduction of blood sugar as a result of the generation of insulin.

 

[FilterFreq]

I did have one friend express concern that I was going about this with “all or nothing/black and white” thinking, though.

I probably drink one soda per year. They would not like me

Have you heard of Olipop or Poppi sodas? They're not 100% sugar-free, but they're magnitudes better than traditional sodas and actually contain some fiber. Might be a pretty cool alternative?

 

[vergil96]

Tbh I haven't noticed feeling bad after eating sugar, I limit sweets and soda for weight reasons. They make you gain weight, but don't have any nutritional values, don't make you satiated and cause GI problems.

 

[Boogs]

I watched a youtube video on this.
Unfortunately, the lifestyle thousands of years ago is very different than today, obviously.

Sadly there's still much to be discovered in the science of metabolism and the influence of compounds classed chemically as sugars. This is compounded by misinformation and the toxic influence toward objective research, instigated by the UPF industries, making sources of data sometimes misleading (and not always deliberately either).
Even genuine independent research can be misleading and make for jumping to conclusions erroneously - e.g. those two interesting paper on modification of brain pathways published by NIH were based on in-vivo studies in rats, so while they may show leads for more specialised research projects, care is needed not to make assumptions however obvious they may seem.
Re-adjustment of metabolic pathways are part and parcel of how the nervous system operates. And the difference between appropriate and inappropriate response to stimuli is as much simply a process failing at it's extreme's rather than a new process being introduced.

BTW, half the sugar/carbs is converted into the nasty fructose, and it is fructose that causes the major health issues, fatty liver being one of them.

I'd describe this in rather different terms. Firstly, how it's processed varies greatly on the specific sugar in question, so it can be sometimes misleading to lump all sugars together. Secondly, I think you're referring to the metabolism of sucrose, which is composed of glucose and fructose bonded together to make the sucrose molecule.

When it's processed in the body, it breaks up into those two sugars. The fructose that comes out of this process is no more or less harmful than many other food constituents, it's far more to do with the nature of consumption, especially the quantity. In natural foods containing fructose such as fruit it's rare for a healthy person to consume enough for the fructose to have an unhealthy effect.

Just demonising fructose as a chemical in and of itself isn't really accurate, it's the unnatural and excessive use of it in UPF's, often 'hidden' and in so many foodstuffs that makes it a potential danger that's hard to be aware of for most consumers. And it's only one of a class of problematic additives. All things consumed are potentially toxic, even water has an LD50. Oxygen can kill. Everything is about the context of consumption, and the whole processed/packaged food industry is toxic in nature (even beyond just basic bodily function) regardless of the individual elements within.

I prefer to see the problem as being more generic, which is why I like the term UPF rather than focussing on one or two specific compounds. I fully agree that fructose is a major one, being so prevalent, but it's the whole nature of this side of the food industry that such a serious problem and I'm quite sure has a major contribution to general rises in a variety of illnesses. If fructose alone was attacked; if the food industry finally had to cave in on the reality of it's contentious use of it, we'd end up with an alternative sweetener that could even be worse!

But, all that said, focussing on reducing one of the more problematic elements such as fructose can only be a good thing! And sometimes on a personal level that focus can be a big advantage in getting to grips with improvement of quality of life.

 

[All-Rounder]

I felt worse and lightheaded when I gave them up, but I wasn't having enough substitutes for energy, aka fats to replace them. The keto diet is no carbs plenty of fats (homemade butter chocolates and stuff)

Now I eat a balanced diet and pacify my cravings when it's meal time. And I'm a happy girl cause I love food and I'm getting many nutrients and textures in my stomach.

 

[Boogs]

Now I eat a balanced diet and pacify my cravings when it's meal time. And I'm a happy girl cause I love food.

I think cravings are a normally healthy aspect of appetite, the body responding to low levels of some nutriments or other.

I think for those without medical dietary needs, mixing in a few things otherwise perceived as bad with a generally healthy meal (and avoiding inter-meal snacks) isn't seriously unhealthy (given our generally negative nutritional environment).
It can be the replacing of required natural nutrients as much as the toxicity of the additives themselves that impact health and well being.

But certain UPF's are especially damaging, so identifying and excising or reducing consumption of those specifically can have a major positive effect for minimal change - so most soft drinks are among the very worse offenders weight for weight. Breakfast cereals are another prime example, some being more additive than natural ingredient. It's a big eye opener to compare the ingredients of most cereals with the few actually healthy ones such as shredded wheat, which are essentially nothing but wheat, or porridge (not the flavoured sachets or similar though) - just rolled oats.

UPF's tend to be low in fibre making them less filling and satisfying, while containing additives that make them more 'compulsive' to our olfactory and connected systems, so we consume far more calories than if eating a higher fibre more natural food where not only are there less additives but we eat less of it before becoming satiated.

 

[All-Rounder]

I think cravings are a normally healthy aspect of appetite, the body responding to low levels of some nutriments or other.

I think for those without medical dietary needs, mixing in a few things otherwise perceived as bad with a generally healthy meal (and avoiding inter-meal snacks) isn't seriously unhealthy (given our generally negative nutritional environment).
It can be the replacing of required natural nutrients as much as the toxicity of the additives themselves that impact health and well being.

But certain UPF's are especially damaging, so identifying and excising or reducing consumption of those specifically can have a major positive effect for minimal change - so most soft drinks are among the very worse offenders weight for weight. Breakfast cereals are another prime example, some being more additive than natural ingredient. It's a big eye opener to compare the ingredients of most cereals with the few actually healthy ones such as shredded wheat, which are essentially nothing but wheat, or porridge (not the flavoured sachets or similar though) - just rolled oats.

UPF's tend to be low in fibre making them less filling and satisfying, while containing additives that make them more 'compulsive' to our olfactory and connected systems, so we consume far more calories than if eating a higher fibre more natural food where not only are there less additives but we eat less of it before becoming satiated.

I don't think grapes have many additives, thank Lucifer, I have them often as snacks.

I'm not allowed soft drinks anyway due to my kidney sand, once per year maybe if even, there are other drinks I love, I constantly have all sorts of milks, vegetal or cow milk.

I'm not supposed to eat whole wheat due to my kidneys. White bread is better. If I had the choice I'd avoid wheat since it's inflammatory. It is very delicious though, boiled wheat with sugar is amazing. It won't harm if I don't eat it constantly, but I love fluffy carbs like cheap cornpuffs now because they take away the acidity in my stomach so they're a great addition to my stomach meds.

 

[DrBadStrings]

I've not completely cut them out of my diet but started really restricting how much I consumed back in May. I also started walking an average of 1hr a day. I feel great, sleep better, and I'm down 23lbs since May 14th. I also don't have the energy crash towards the end of a day that I used to get.

I don't buy anything heavy in refined sugar for the house. But I'm a sucker for the occasional piece of cheesecake from a local shop. Maybe once a month but that's it.

 

[Boogs]

I don't think grapes have many additives, thank Lucifer, I have them often as snacks.

I'm not allowed soft drinks anyway due to my kidney sand, once per year maybe if even, there are other drinks I love, I constantly have all sorts of milks, vegetal or cow milk.

I'm not supposed to eat whole wheat due to my kidneys. White bread is better. If I had the choice I'd avoid wheat since it's inflammatory. It is very delicious though, boiled wheat with sugar is amazing. It won't harm if I don't eat it constantly, but I love fluffy carbs like cheap cornpuffs now because they take away the acidity in my stomach so they're a great addition to my stomach meds.

Sounds like you have a tougher time of it, as medical conditions are restricting variety of healthy options?

FYI: Milk can be good for acidic stomach in that it buffers the acid and raises the pH a bit (assuming one can tolerate it ofc). Also, if suffering acidic stomach and have little appetite, slowly chewing on dry toast as well as sipping on some milk can help by providing some substance to soak up the bile (all obviously depending on what one can tolerate).

 

[Jonn]

I also don't have the energy crash towards the end of a day that I used to get.

Carbs are know for energy crashes after the "carb high".
I experienced this only last week.

 

[All-Rounder]

Sounds like you have a tougher time of it, as medical conditions are restricting variety of healthy options?

FYI: Milk can be good for acidic stomach in that it buffers the acid and raises the pH a bit (assuming one can tolerate it ofc). Also, if suffering acidic stomach and have little appetite, slowly chewing on dry toast as well as sipping on some milk can help by providing some substance to soak up the bile (all obviously depending on what one can tolerate).

In my life I didn't have the opportunity to eat unhealthy foods because my family and I have been poor for like ever, so in some way I was eating very healthy cooked food, rarely did I get sweets or soda only if we'd visit someone specific that had soda at home and was a soda drinker.

When I grew older I was a health freak, preoccupied with maintaining a healthy diet. I made a multitude of huge errors that impacted my health, I wasn't able to fully study the diets I was making for myself, I missed important clues though I was constantly researching. There are so many things to keep in mind when switching to a diet and it's better to let professionals do it case by case.

Recently I delved in a lot of variety of foods, I tested things others would have on a daily basis and I never got the opportunity to try, I felt like I finally caught up to society. I developed a sense of what I like and realized unless I have medical advice and medical files with exactly what I have, it's better to not change my diet too much because I won't know what I'm doing or why I'm actually doing it, and I have done wrong by my body and health before with pieces of information.

I have to keep my medical suggestions, the doctor said diet in the stomach acidity case is as important as the prescribed treatment. And the list says the suggestions are hard nos, and they are a lot already. Then I have to keep in mind the kidney diet as well, and focus on desserts that don't aggravate my conditions. For example chocolate is making the stomach acidity worse and is high in oxalate. I used to dislike it but now when I like it I'm not allowed it anymore. On chocolate I have probably cheated the most, a bit of chocolate in this, a bit in that, the taste is so pure and easy.

I have decided that the stuff I ate when I was on keto was not a good idea for my stomach and my kidneys can't have too much protein so I said, well now it's probably time for refined carbs to be accepted. I didn't expect cornpuffs to have less oil than chips and they're cheap and so tasty so I do engage with cornpuffs quite a lot. Sweets particularly on an empty stomach are a no, so cornpuffs are quite versatile and helpful in comparison to other treats.

Milk offers me natural calcium, sometimes it is fortified with a bit if it's vegetal, calcium of good nature and with limits has been shown to prevent kidney stone formation (calcium in supplements has been oddly shown to make it worse). They're saying that the far content, 3.5 percent would make GERD acid reflux worse but most things in life have more content of fat, although I choose skim milk because they say it's better.

My bone demineralization also demands calcium. But I don't wanna go crazy with big supplement dosages and I have prescribed magnesium for stomach and additionally supports bones so I should be able to absorb calcium from diet with the help of the magnesium, without having to overdo it.

I'm about to switch my hormone meds that contribute to bone demineralization as well and although I will bleed and lose nutrients for up to 6 months I hope I can survive well enough and recover after. I have been through it before.

 

[Boogs]

That sounds a complex state to manage.

so in some way I was eating very healthy cooked food

In WW2 in the UK it's reckoned people generally had the healthiest of diets due to rationing and shortages. Their biggest problem I think was getting enough fresh fruit due to shipping being sunk.

I presume the oxalate problem is related to calcium absorption? I'm betting you know already, but 'normal' milk chocolate has much fewer oxalates than the high cocoa varieties.

Good luck with the meds change, sounds like a bit of an ordeal!

 

[All-Rounder]

That sounds a complex state to manage.

In WW2 in the UK it's reckoned people generally had the healthiest of diets due to rationing and shortages. Their biggest problem I think was getting enough fresh fruit due to shipping being sunk.

I presume the oxalate problem is related to calcium absorption? I'm betting you know already, but 'normal' milk chocolate has much fewer oxalates than the high cocoa varieties.

Good luck with the meds change, sounds like a bit of an ordeal!

Oh gosh, the shortages were definitely not what I had in mind when talking about health. I have found shortages to be terrible to bones, brain, stress and immunity, to say the least. A lot of caution with them.

Calcium doesn't allow the accumulation of, brace yourself, calcium oxalate crystals. Sounds weird but true. These crystals (and other types) can accumulate in the kidneys and in time form sand and stones which cause bleeding, damage, pain and inflammation in the kidneys, and decrease their functionality.

Thanks! Yes, hormone med change is a drag and I'm always so nervous about it. I will take some drops I have left though they might not be effective anymore, ive had them for a long time. Other than that I cant take additional hormones to aid with the bleeding that I would when I wasn't on hormone therapy. And last doctor ive been to with that problem didn't prescribe me anything for it, maybe she was wrong, dunno.

 

[Boogs]

Carbs are know for energy crashes after the "carb high".
I experienced this only last week.

Worth bearing in mind the term 'carbohydrate' is very non-specific in terms of the actual compound(s) and how it behaves in the body. e.g. sugars are carbohydrates (but not all carbs are sugars), and different sugars behave differently, so the range of carbs and their effects can be pretty wide.
'Carbs' have been vilified, but in reality it's just a measure of energy from a range of related compounds.

So some carbs may give effects that others won't, or the quantities required to give undesired side-effects can vary from carb to carb. It's a ruddy nightmare sometimes, and the incomplete and changing science on just how healthy bodies react to these things doesn't help matters )not to mention the somewhat toxic 'wellness' industry on social media that's not helping matters (to be diplomatic about it).

I'm about to switch my hormone meds that contribute to bone demineralization as well and although I will bleed and lose nutrients for up to 6 months I hope I can survive well enough and recover after. I have been through it before.

I was sure I'd replied to you last night, but it seems fantasy and reality are merging, or I just forgot to click 'Post reply'?
Good luck with the med's change, it sounds like a bit of a trial to go through, I hope it works out for you.

P.S. Just found it! I did reply!! Jeez, definitely losing it!

 

[Boogs]

Oh gosh, the shortages were definitely not what I had in mind when talking about health. I have found shortages to be terrible to bones, brain, stress and immunity, to say the least. A lot of caution with them.

Calcium doesn't allow the accumulation of, brace yourself, calcium oxalate crystals. Sounds weird but true. These crystals (and other types) can accumulate in the kidneys and in time form sand and stones which cause bleeding, damage, pain and inflammation in the kidneys, and decrease their functionality.

Thanks! Yes, hormone med change is a drag and I'm always so nervous about it. I will take some drops I have left though they might not be effective anymore, ive had them for a long time. Other than that I cant take additional hormones to aid with the bleeding that I would when I wasn't on hormone therapy. And last doctor ive been to with that problem didn't prescribe me anything for it, maybe she was wrong, dunno.

What I meant was shortages of many of the foodstuff's that can be unhealthy when taken in too high a quantity - esp. sugars (plus the lack of artificial sweeteners to replace sucrose back then). People's health (on a dietary basis) was generally reckoned to be much better than now. How much that's due to low level of UPF's and how much just reduction of sucrose and similar I couldn't say, but I have my suspicions it's the UPF's have done most damage, and probably induced many digestive maladies on top of poor nutrition and toxic effects, for many.

Obviously shortages of important foodstuffs with no replacements, and especially for those with pre-existing conditions, are not a good thing!!!! But on a national basis, apparently the war-time (and after) rationing had some major population benefits in reducing unhealthy food additives and raising health levels.
Interestingly the children who grew up in those times are now reaching end of life and often showing long and relatively heathy life spans (my parents for example). I would be fascinated to see, if I wouldn't have died long before, what the life span of those born in the eighties and nineties who were much more exposed to processed foods would be like compared to that earlier generation.
But to separate that from the effect of massive improvement of health services and treatments etc would be difficult, and the food industry works hard to obscure or hide these 'minor' details on what their products do to people!

 

[Jonn]

'Carbs' have been vilified, but in reality it's just a measure of energy from a range of related compounds.

Are you diabetic?
I am.

 

[Boogs]

Calcium doesn't allow the accumulation of, brace yourself, calcium oxalate crystals. Sounds weird but true. These crystals (and other types) can accumulate in the kidneys and in time form sand and stones which cause bleeding, damage, pain and inflammation in the kidneys, and decrease their functionality.

My (poor) understanding is that oxalic acid derivatives tend to bind to calcium when taken together (or at the same time/similar times) to cause crystalisation that can cause stones in the kidney. My assumption was that calcium being bound to oxalates makes it unable to be absorbed in the body for other uses (bone supplements etc) and why it's not recommended for both proclivity towards stones, and separately, to help calcium absorption?