I Never Metaphor I Didn't Like

[Kavigant]

@Rodafina - you're absolutely right! I am mixing up metaphors and idioms when I did not intend to. (don't even get me started on similes!) Thank you for pointing that out (I'm not being sarcastic - I appreciate the correction).

And, to make matters worse, I did start to throw some general wordplay into the mix. Being both incorrect and imprecise - two of my personal "sins."

 

[Misty Avich]

I've had to explain to an NT what a figure of speech meant before if they had never heard it. Like when I said to my husband, ''I hope I don't let the cat out of the bag today'', and he looked at me confused and said ''what cat?'' So I had to say that it's just an expression meaning I hope I don't impulsively blurt out something that's supposed to be kept private, like how much we earn or something. He told me he had never heard that phrase before and he admitted he thought I was literally talking about a cat. He's an NT.

So I think everyone has taken an expression literally if they have never heard of the expression before.

It's why I hate people knowing I have an ASD, because of the chance that whenever they say a metaphor they'll assume I'm going to take it literally. I remember when I was at school my support worker discussed about coming out of my shell, then before she wrote it down she asked if I knew what I meant. I sighed and said ''yes, I do.'' But then she asked if she wanted to put its meaning in brackets just in case, and draw a little picture too. I shook my head and said ''no, thank you, I've known what it means since I was like 4 years old''.
As if I'm going to sit there actually thinking I have a shell. Come on, we're not stupid!

 

[Neonatal RRT]

One of the things I hear most frequently regarding autism is that autists don’t understand metaphors. This really trips me up as I try to evaluate myself for autism, because I think that I understand metaphors just fine.

I think that perhaps I don’t get it: isn’t it true that metaphors cannot be logically understood by anyone and everyone just has to be told what they mean?

For example, the first time a child (or a non-native English speaker) hears someone say that it’s “raining cats and dogs” outside, I’d guess that none of them would have any idea at all what the heck that means. But once someone else explains to you that “raining cats and dogs” simply means “it’s raining quite heavily,” wouldn’t you just know to substitute the words “really heavily” for “cats and dogs”?

Kind of like a phrase in a foreign language: I didn’t understand what it meant the first time someone said to me, “Que sera, que sera.” But now, in my head, I just substitute “whatever will be, will be” when someone says it.

I’m certain that I am not understanding something, and so I turn to the authorities on autism: all of you. Please help me to understand better.

Context is important. From my experience on the forums here, many of us do use and understand metaphors, in fact, some are quite proficient with their usage.

I suspect the literature on this topic are most likely using a sample population of autistic children and/or those with "lower intellects".

Whenever one reads any sort of scientific literature, study population and methods represent a specific context. One cannot make broad statements base upon very specific contexts. So it is in this case, there may be a specific subgroup of autistic individuals that struggle to understand metaphors, but in no way is this true for all autistics.

 

[Kavigant]

Would it perhaps be more accurate to say that people who are more profoundly impacted by ASD tend to have more problems with more symbolic or metaphorical? Or is that statement also not necessarily true?

Here we reach one of my life challenges: understanding why. Why have autists gotten this reputation if it isn't really a defining trait of autism? Is it just that NTs are desperate for some shorthand way to understanding NDs and as a result they've latched onto the metaphor?

Edited to add: I think that @Neonatal RRT has touched on this in their post immediately above.

It's precipitating (a tiny subset of) small domesticated mammals!

 

[Richelle-H]

As @Outdated observed. nothing is absolute or fixed when it comes to those of us on the spectrum. I am an ASD1 who spent hours in my childhood paging through an unabridged dictionary that probably weighed more than I did when I first started . I love word play. I also have a highly developed sense of humor as well; something that is generally not associated with autism.

I think my quirky sense of humor is an asset! Even when others give me a HUH? or a come again, I will invariably find another way to say the same thing until the light suddenly goes on over their cranium. I never considered that my ability to work the language disqualified me from anything. I did not even know I was on the spectrum until my 40s.

* A metaphony went looking for a metaphor but stumbled upon a simile that was crazy like a fox. *

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Here we reach one of my life challenges: understanding why. Why have autists gotten this reputation if it isn't really a defining trait of autism? Is it just that NTs are desperate for some shorthand way to understanding NDs and as a result they've latched onto the metaphor?

I would imagine because many use idioms, and if we have trouble with them, they see it as us not understanding anything figurative. Idioms seem a very prevalent part of NT communication. Also, I think we may have more trouble in the moment with getting figurative language. I know I can, but I have less difficulty when reading.

I had an old therapist who asked me why a rolling stone gathers no moss. It froze me, even though I get the expression. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks I have trouble with metaphors, though I've read plenty of James Joyce, Shakespeare, etc. I think so much depends on the presentation.

Nice They Might Be Giants quote

 

[MNAus]

So my observations. I don't think it's the case that autistic people have a problem with metaphor and idioms generally. My kids LOVE play on words jokes. That idea of swapping symbols around and changing meaning seems appealing to many autistic minds. My youngest loves spoonerisms too.

I think this misrepresentation stems from autistic people often taking things at face value. That's a bit of an over-generalisation, but it seems a recurring theme here is people "believe' people. Not because they are gullible, but because it doesn't occur to them NOT to take them at their word (still over-simplifying here). Sarcasm can often be problematic here and often takes some learning. So when someone uses a metaphor that COULD be taken at face value, they might do so.

In my experience it's not a major trait for people on the spectrum. I think it's grasped on by NTs as a "OMG that's so weeeeirdd" believe-it-or-not factlet.

 

[Kavigant]

On what might be a related note: so many of the mistakes I made as a young man came from reading opinions and advice from 70's-era hedonists and believing what they wrote. I took what they wrote at face value and believed that I should pursue "no guilt pleasure," and that I should seek to live out my fantasies, and be very "free," etc.

But of course, not everything they wrote was wise, practical, or healthy. And I have so so many regrets from my 20's.

 

[Tyer]

Would it perhaps be more accurate to say that people who are more profoundly impacted by ASD tend to have more problems with more symbolic or metaphorical? Or is that statement also not necessarily true?

Here we reach one of my life challenges: understanding why. Why have autists gotten this reputation if it isn't really a defining trait of autism? Is it just that NTs are desperate for some shorthand way to understanding NDs and as a result they've latched onto the metaphor?

Edited to add: I think that @Neonatal RRT has touched on this in their post immediately above.

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It's precipitating (a tiny subset of) small domesticated mammals!

As much as I know, understand and think, is, that probably alot of stuff NT know of Autism (if they arent interested in researching on the topic frequently on their own) is based on the old data people had back then, older times.
The diagnose and all those other stuff surounding Autism was seperated and categorized, acting as if one can put people into different kinds of boxes. (Some having more obvious "severe" problem then others. The easier to detect are...well, easier to detect. And those tend to have often more ...issues. ...as example "lower intelligence" "learning disabilities" "speech problems", there are also those comorbidity disorders...like down symdrom with autism. Which attractet probably the most attention back then. That formed some pictures people had about Autism. Not seeing ut as a combination of two or several things going on.)
That changed over time. But its still not as accurate in the puplic eye.
While with time there was the realization that the boxes dont really exist. The "having more autism and having less autism"...yeah that doesnt really exist. But I think i understand what you mean by that. (Not all have the same "level" on the "criterias". That can cause a bit of confusion and doubt.)(as i got my diagnose i rejected it at first because "i wasnt retarded enough", I had no idea what autism was. But i read myself into matter, and started to realize, that the picture i had was wrong and that i was more autistic then i thought. Suddely everything started to mske sense. Even if i couldnt relate to everything, i related to 97% which is still a lot. And i was only a beginner in "autism knowledge" back then.)

Autism is a Spectrum (I prefer to think of it as a sphere.... or ball, tho).
But how fluent the invidual autistics can be didnt really caught up yet with the rest of the world.

The spectrum of NT is fluent too.
So are autistic.
Or psychopaths. Or housecats.
Cats are a good example actually.
Learning to understand autism, is like learning to read cats. theyre inviduals, with personality.
they all are different, but theres still this ...similiarity...that "cat language" they all share.
one cant put the behaviors of dogs on cats, because they "speak a different language".
The tail, their eyes, the bites, scratching, the overstimulation...(actually probably most animals can get overstimulated....but most people dont think thats a thing and dont consider it as a -not intentional action- and get mad about it. But they just dont get whats going on. Lacking knowledge....im drifting away again. Back to topic!)

Autism is like cat language.
Im sure, we all learn with time a bit about autism, (because we cant run away from it anyway)
As long as we keep asking questions and learn and teach, we will educate us and others.
Someday NTs/the puplic eye will know a little bit more, and the books around us will tell us more and even more accurate stuff. Because this was always the case.
And as long as people care, it will keep going to be more and more accurat with time.

 

[MNAus]

But of course, not everything they wrote was wise, practical, or healthy. And I have so so many regrets from my 20's.

But also many wild stories.

 

[ra49]

Oh thank you all !! I laughed my way down this whole thread I love metaphor and simile and every word ever created, my thesaurus is my favorite book, and I spent 4th and 5th grades with grandpa's 1923 Webster's.
I do not get sarcasm or irony unless the voice is very oh whatever is the word for smarty pants?
and jokes go over my head about 4" except for Dad jokes, which I dearly love.
thank you all so much!

[having read a lot about ASD and Asperger's and also ADD and ADHD this year, I will say that unless one of the authors was such, the articles and books rang in my mind as if newspaper articles, i.e. the author was really trying but didn't understand, so reporting what they had accumulated but not able to conflate the data into information]

xoxo suppertime and will not be kitten fillets

 

[Kavigant]

But also many wild stories.

Lots of regrets. Sexy, sexy regrets.

 

[Human Avatar]

when someone remarks “ It’s Raining Cats and Dogs”

My mind responds by thinking why can’t it be raining chickens and sheep ?

I have said that before after someone said it’s raining cats and dogs.
They said to me you are weird .
I then reply I don’t think so “you are the one seeing cats and dogs falling from the sky”.

Don’t mess with someones
Metaphors . They will be angry.
Conformist are weird .

 

[Jumpinbare]

As we get older, unless we aren't trying we will learn things we may not have understood the first time we hear them. So those of us diagnosed late in life have gone through that learning curve and will understand common metaphors, idioms, etc. It should not surprise anyone (if they think about it) that we can do that. A young autistic child has not been through the process yet, and would likely have this difficulty.
As for humor, I take advantage of the fact that most people think I rarely laugh or smile. I actually tell people that I am 100% serious all the time. I then within minutes hit them with some dead-pan absurdity or really out-there humor and enjoy watching them process what they just heard and eventually realize I have made a joke.

 

[Aspychata]

As l muddle thru the puddles of cats and dogs here, l hope l don't step in dog doo.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I always liked never to kick a man while he is down, with the kicker, he may get up. always makes me smile.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

I think this misrepresentation stems from autistic people often taking things at face value. That's a bit of an over-generalisation, but it seems a recurring theme here is people "believe' people. Not because they are gullible, but because it doesn't occur to them NOT to take them at their word (still over-simplifying here). Sarcasm can often be problematic here and often takes some learning. So when someone uses a metaphor that COULD be taken at face value, they might do so.

This has been my experience. I'm very trusting, and it often doesn't occur to me that people are being sarcastic or joking even when it's very obvious in hindsight. I especially remember one coworker who is very smart, but every time I would ask an obvious question to get something confirmed (so, I measure one gram, right?), he would respond with a sarcastic response (no, you measure out one kg), which I would then be very confused about until he told me he was joking. It was just his sense of humor, but it got pretty annoying, since I really like having everything confirmed before proceeding so I don't make a mistake.

This was also a problem with my very sarcastic ex, though another problem was my sense of humor. I liked to pretend to not understand her sarcasm, and respond as such, but of course that's indistinguishable from actually not understanding the sarcasm, which made me seem more aloof than I actually was.

 

[Judge]

One of the things I hear most frequently regarding autism is that autists don’t understand metaphors. This really trips me up as I try to evaluate myself for autism, because I think that I understand metaphors just fine.

Agreed, some of us understand idioms, axioms and metaphors and some do not. Just as some of us can project empathy and some cannot. Though I also see some NTs not being able to identify how we project things like empathy, which can lead to incorrect conclusions as well.

Other things can be more complicated. I cannot properly process sarcasm when directed to myself and no others. Something inside my brain just "short-circuits" and I simply assume I am being insulted. Where the best I can do (IMO) is to ignore what was said. Yet I have a limited understanding of sarcasm when directed towards someone else. Similar to how I can process envy and jealousy. Something I personally do not experience in whole or in part, yet I can identify it in others.

My point being that we have to be taken as individuals rather than sweeping generalizations as autistic persons. That who and what we are individually is well....complicated to say the very least. Just another consideration that supports the notion that autism is indeed on a spectrum of traits and behaviors.

That in no way is autism something that exists as if it were created with a cookie-cutter. My bad, another metaphor!

 

[kenaij]

I think there is a difference between being able to understand what something means. And understanding why something is used. I don`t know if it is a saying in english but a literal Dutch metaphor is: It is better to have one bird in your hand, than to have manyin the sky.
Ofcourse I can understand what they are trying to say. Eventhou I really don`t want to hold a bird in my hands because they will probably crap all over me. And I don`t like birds.
I think it has more to do with not understanding why you would use the metaphor instead of just saying. Be glad with what you have, instead of being sad about what you don`t have.

 

[Tyer]

It is better to have one bird in your hand, than to have manyin the sky.

Hmmmmm...
...what does that mean?
And for what does it stand for?

I mean...I understand that one little thing seems to be more controlable than a bunch of things all at onc-...ohhh
Is that what it means? -Concentrate on the little menageable thing, insteat of a chaotic overwhelming avalanch-?

...yeah...how did humans end up saying nonesense, instead of just saying the thing they mean.

(Maybe its easier to picture, so they use weird images...I think too much. its not really important in the end.)