Incredibly upset by this article

[Misty Avich]

I think they are basically using societies misconceptions about autism as a way of attacking men. It's presented in such a way that it makes it look like narcissistic abuse and it's probably necessary for them to create an other attack vector towards men. People are then jumping on the bandwagon as they think it's just another brand of malignant narcissism. It's quite disturbing as misconceptions like that can spread quickly

That's why I really have a problem with "lack of empathy" or "can't empathise" being used in descriptions of autism. It should really be reworded everywhere, as "difficulties with social instincts" or something more precise like that. The word "empathy" has a lot of misconception and lacking empathy is usually the first trait on the list of psychopathy. So that's where people get the idea from, associating autism with lacking empathy, because the general population think that lacking empathy means heartless and cruel. In fact I think we should just ban the word empathy when discussing autism.

I hate when autistic people use this E-word as a tool to guilt or manipulate each other into agreeing with them in an argument, which I have sadly seen go on on autism sites. One autistic person can believe the earth is flat and will accuse other autistic people who disagree as lacking empathy.
I take it as an insult, as empathy is something I believe I have. I am a very impulsive person but never to the point where I'm going to suddenly hurt or kill another person, no matter how badly I act on a whim during my most angry moments (which I don't have often but used to). And I put it down to naturally in-built empathy that just instinctively stops me from harming anybody. And I'm sure this is true for the very vast majority of autistic/ADHD people.

 

[Kalinychta]

I think they are basically using societies misconceptions about autism as a way of attacking men. It's presented in such a way that it makes it look like narcissistic abuse and it's probably necessary for them to create an other attack vector towards men. People are then jumping on the bandwagon as they think it's just another brand of malignant narcissism. It's quite disturbing as misconceptions like that can spread quickly

Who do you mean by “them,” though? I looked at the rest of the website to see if it seems legit, and it does. I’m very surprised they published that vile tripe, actually—it’s inconsistent with the nature of the other articles on their site.

It seems like the author is specifically targeting autistic men, not men in general at all. Makes me wonder if she’s a malignant narcissist with a chip on her shoulder about some autistic guy who escaped from between her claws.

 

[MildredHubble]

That's why I really have a problem with "lack of empathy" or "can't empathise" being used in descriptions of autism. It should really be reworded everywhere, as "difficulties with social instincts" or something more precise like that. The word "empathy" has a lot of misconception and lacking empathy is usually the first trait on the list of psychopathy. So that's where people get the idea from, associating autism with lacking empathy, because the general population think that lacking empathy means heartless and cruel. In fact I think we should just ban the word empathy when discussing autism.

I hate when autistic people use this E-word as a tool to guilt or manipulate each other into agreeing with them in an argument, which I have sadly seen go on on autism sites. One autistic person can believe the earth is flat and will accuse other autistic people who disagree as lacking empathy.
I take it as an insult, as empathy is something I believe I have. I am a very impulsive person but never to the point where I'm going to suddenly hurt or kill another person, no matter how badly I act on a whim during my most angry moments (which I don't have often but used to). And I put it down to naturally in-built empathy that just instinctively stops me from harming anybody. And I'm sure this is true for the very vast majority of autistic/ADHD people.

I agree it's probably an inappropriate way to describe it. I've met lots of very empathetic people here! When people describe interpersonal issues here, they often do so from a position of genuinely wanting to learn how to improve their understanding and responses so they don't upset anyone again in the future.

A lack of empathy implies to me that a person doesn't care about others, their perceptions or the way they feel. I genuinely do not think a single person I've met here displays any of those traits.

You can see how easily people with bad intentions could twist things, ironically I would argue it's those people who lack empathy!

 

[Kalinychta]

That's why I really have a problem with "lack of empathy" or "can't empathise" being used in descriptions of autism. It should really be reworded everywhere, as "difficulties with social instincts" or something more precise like that. The word "empathy" has a lot of misconception and lacking empathy is usually the first trait on the list of psychopathy. So that's where people get the idea from, associating autism with lacking empathy, because the general population think that lacking empathy means heartless and cruel. In fact I think we should just ban the word empathy when discussing autism.

I hate when autistic people use this E-word as a tool to guilt or manipulate each other into agreeing with them in an argument, which I have sadly seen go on on autism sites. One autistic person can believe the earth is flat and will accuse other autistic people who disagree as lacking empathy.
I take it as an insult, as empathy is something I believe I have. I am a very impulsive person but never to the point where I'm going to suddenly hurt or kill another person, no matter how badly I act on a whim during my most angry moments (which I don't have often but used to). And I put it down to naturally in-built empathy that just instinctively stops me from harming anybody. And I'm sure this is true for the very vast majority of autistic/ADHD people.

The problem is that the word “empathy” is kind of an umbrella term. There are three types of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and compassionate. It’s cognitive empathy that many autistic people struggle with, not the other two, and in fact a very large number of autists have much more emotional and compassionate empathy than non-autistics, so much so that it can be overwhelming.

 

[MildredHubble]

Who do you mean by “them,” though?

Sorry, I meant the person who wrote the article and the people in the comments.

Makes me wonder if she’s a malignant narcissist with a chip on her shoulder about some autistic guy who escaped from between her claws.

It wouldn't surprise me, my mother would often go into hours long diatribes about men with depression, or men who were gay, or men who were autistic and how they weren't living up to "her" standard of masculinity, usually because they escaped her clutches or were immune to her manipulation tactics.

 

[MildredHubble]

The problem is that the word “empathy” is kind of an umbrella term. There are three types of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and compassionate. It’s cognitive empathy that many autistic people struggle with, not the other two, and in fact a very large number of autists have much more emotional and compassionate empathy than non-autistics, so much so that it can be overwhelming.

The problem is that often people don't know that there's subdivisions of "Empathy" and assume if someone says "They lack empathy" that they mean they watch indifferently while you starved to death.

 

[Kalinychta]

The problem is that often people don't know that there's subdivisions of "Empathy" and assume if someone says "They lack empathy" that they mean they watch indifferently while you starved to death.

Exactly.

 

[Misty Avich]

The problem is that the word “empathy” is kind of an umbrella term. There are three types of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and compassionate. It’s cognitive empathy that many autistic people struggle with, not the other two, and in fact a very large number of autists have much more emotional and compassionate empathy than non-autistics, so much so that it can be overwhelming.

Most people don't think of the cognitive empathy part, they just see empathy as one thing and that any humans who lack it are cold and heartless.

I hate it when people describe bullying behaviour as empathetic, like "all bullies want is a reaction, therefore they are deliberately bullying you because they understand how you're feeling to get the reaction they want" - which I think isn't really helpful for victims on the receiving end of bullying. It's basically saying that empathy just means being aware of your actions, positive or negative. There's lots of types of bullying and some bullies really do lack empathy for how their victim is feeling. That's the impression I always got.

 

[Kalinychta]

It wouldn't surprise me, my mother would often go into hours long diatribes about men with depression, or men who were gay, or men who were autistic and how they weren't living up to "her" standard of masculinity, usually because they escaped her clutches or were immune to her manipulation tactics.

Sounds like your mom and this Sarah Swenson troll would be best friends.

Is anyone thinking about sending a message to the publishers? I am. Based on the rest of the material on their site I think if they took a closer look at this article they’d probably take it down.

 

[MildredHubble]

Is anyone thinking about sending a message to the publishers? I am. Based on the rest of the material on their site I think if they took a closer look at this article they’d probably take it down.

That's an idea worth trying! If you do write them, I think you should include the points you've made, and any from this thread you feel are appropriate. Maybe a link or two to some educational resources on autism. It can be their opportunity to find out what it's like to have to figure out how to do better next time so they can have some empathy for autistic people!

I hate it when people describe bullying behaviour as empathetic, like "all bullies want is a reaction, therefore they are deliberately bullying you because they understand how you're feeling to get the reaction they want" -

If people say that as far as I'm concerned they are making excuses for bullies. I really can't stand it when people do that. Then the bullies think it's ok to bully people and the victims have to shut up and let them. If I started bullying a bully, does that make me more or less empathetic? Some people seem to have their brain in backwards!

 

[Markness]

Ah, I think who wrote this is the same person who wrote the heartlessaspergers website that got taken down. She's really trying to tell the world how awful autistic people are. We shouldn't let things like this be out there on the internet, especially in this day and age where most minority groups are protected and anything biased against them is only found on the dark web. Why aren't autistic people a protected group yet??

For some reason I can’t read the article whenever I click on it but it looks like your post sums up how hateful it is. I wish I could prove the author wrong.

 

[Kalinychta]

That's an idea worth trying! If you do write them, I think you should include the points you've made, and any from this thread you feel are appropriate. Maybe a link or two to some educational resources on autism. It can be their opportunity to find out what it's like to have to figure out how to do better next time so they can have some empathy for autistic people!


If people say that as far as I'm concerned they are making excuses for bullies. I really can't stand it when people do that. Then the bullies think it's ok to bully people and the victims have to shut up and let them. If I started bullying a bully, does that make me more or less empathetic? Some people seem to have their brain in backwards!

I e-mailed them, and I told them we’ve been talking about the article. I hope they take it down. We’ll see.

 

[MildredHubble]

I e-mailed them, and I told them we’ve been talking about the article. I hope they take it down. We’ll see.

Well done! I hope that they will reconsider the article or at the very least post an article that redresses the balance a bit and makes a few people think a bit deeper about it all. Let's See what happens.

 

[Kalinychta]

Well done! I hope that they will reconsider the article or at the very least post an article that redresses the balance a bit and makes a few people think a bit deeper about it all. Let's See what happens.

Agreed. I just looked at the author’s profile and picture, and she looks like a smug cow.

 

[MildredHubble]

I looked at her profile just now. I suppose people often do look pretty smug in these sorts of things to be fair. But looking at the prices of her therapy sessions, I'd probably look pretty smug too if I could charge that much ($250) for 50 minutes of my time lol!

What I found odd was this quote from her page: "Our work together includes creating strategies for effective communication in a blame-free environment where you can begin to show compassion not only to your partner but to yourself." The article seems to contradict this sentiment. It seems quite certain of who is "to blame".

 

[Neri]

Sorry, I meant the person who wrote the article and the people in the comments.


It wouldn't surprise me, my mother would often go into hours long diatribes about men with depression, or men who were gay, or men who were autistic and how they weren't living up to "her" standard of masculinity, usually because they escaped her clutches or were immune to her manipulation tactics.

My mother would routinely talk about my undiagnosed autistic father with contempt. He had been advised by his therapist, when mum was pregnant with me, to leave her, and he unwittingly told her, and she begged him not to.

I'm not sure she ever forgive him though and she cheated on him as soon as she could. In fact he told me he wasn't sure I was his, until mum made such a big deal about "How like my father I am" that he relaxed and realized I was a bit of a mini-me of him, only female.

Mum left him when I was two and a half. She took me interstate and I endured boyfriend after boyfriend, while she derisively spoke of my dad and yet, almost in the same breath, would be like "You're so like your father".

His next wife was even worse. Both of them have A LOT of borderline personality disorder traits. My step mum threatened to off herself if my dad didn't marry her.
My half sister is even more of a mini-our-dad-only-female, if that's possible, she is even a librarian, like he was for most of his working life. She is very close with our dad, but not her mum

Dad's given up on women after that.

Ironically, he was the parent to respond, in some capacity, when I was a deeply depressed, burnt out, anorexic, self harming, nearly non verbal, school refusing 15 year old, as he paid for private inpatients treatment for me.

Recently mum said "I hated that he put you in THAT PLACE" I was like "Mum, I NEEDED that place!".

I needed a lot longer than I got, as an inpatient.
So yeah, the autistic guy was a hellofalotmore responsive to his, also undiagnosed, autistic daughter, than the (allegedly) non autistic mother.

My dad is consistently more empathetic than my mum, although he struggles to express it in more than sympathy noises and a squeeze on the shoulder. He also cries when reciting Leonard Cohen lyrics, so I know he is a deeply feeling man, he just struggles to put that into words.

 

[zaphod]

Neri, I was actually just thinking about exactly what you are talking about before you posted your experience. Sorry you had to go through that.

It's well known that aspies often end up with partners that have their own serious mental health issues. The vile, disgusting hatred in the comments section makes me think that's what is going on there.

 

[zaphod]

I want to thank everyone for responding. My journey towards a diagnosis at the age of 46 has made me question everything about my past. I feel like I'm gaslighting myself. Reading this made me wonder if this was me and I just didn't know it... the responses have been reassuring.

 

[Neri]

Neri, I was actually just thinking about exactly what you are talking about before you posted your experience. Sorry you had to go through that.

It's well known that aspies often end up with partners that have their own serious mental health issues. The vile, disgusting hatred in the comments section makes me think that's what is going on there.

I just had to ring my dad after I wrote that. I rarely ring him; usually I wait for him to call me.
Told him I was looking forward to visiting, when my youngest, just-turned 18 yr old (also Autistic & twice exceptional) son moves down to Melbourne, where my dad lives.
I dearly love my daddy, even though it's been a rocky, socially awkward and often overwhelming life for both of us.
He's still not diagnosed, but has recognised his "Asperger-ness" for at least 10 years now.
I told him I had gotten diagnosed with Autism, recently, and he was like "Autism? No, I don't relate to Autism. I can communicate really well" and almost in the same sentence he told me he really relates to Rainman.
Go figure :-().

 

[Neri]

Neri, I was actually just thinking about exactly what you are talking about before you posted your experience. Sorry you had to go through that.

It's well known that aspies often end up with partners that have their own serious mental health issues. The vile, disgusting hatred in the comments section makes me think that's what is going on there.

This same sentiment is echoed in the past relationships of my current, undiagnosed, Aspie, Significant Other. He has been cheated on, bashed up, framed and charged for crimes he didn't commit (crimes that his two ex and mother's of his kid's perpetuated on him), had the mother of his son's repeatedly threaten to "drive off a cliff with the boys in the back", nearly killed by an ex of his son's mother, which left him with a Traumatic Brain Injury, estranged from his only daughter, by virtue of her narcy mum denying him access to his daughter, and the list goes on. And he is the MOST loving, loyal, honourable, intelligent and amazing man I have ever had the privilege of knowing.