Is it common for people with Asperger's to become atheist?

[kg4fxg]

Arashi222 - I like your comments.

For me experience has been a teacher. And of course I question everything which leads to problems in this area. After all I studied to be a Catholic Priest and now I am nothing. After what I saw and experienced in seminary I would rather be sent to hell than go back. That is one side of the coin, the other is having a background or years of study in Philosophy. It just opens the door to questioning everything.

 

[Christian T]

I'm a Christian, but I do believe that many aspies become atheists because of our rigid & highly logical thinking.

Perhaps most aspies are this way, but I don't believe that strict logic can be applied to everything. I'm agnostic, and I'm basically waiting to actually see for myself what lies beyond this world after I leave it.

 

[Justme]

I wouldn't know whether it's common but for me I would say that religion has been the most important thing in my life. As with any 'interest' I go hell for leather or not at all and I became a Christian at 13, lost faith for years and when I got back into it after having kids and thinkng I must make my mind up whether to take them to chuch or not....I got so involved I ended up as a Deacon in a Baptist Church. It was my life..............until I suffered a total burnout with depression and I began to study religion in more depth (I began a degree in RS & Theology) Anyway the net result was I lost my faith completely due to 1) my studies 2) the attitude of my church when I told them I was losing faith and questioned anything at all................so I would now call myself an atheist. It's logical.

 

[Spinning Compass]

I am struck by the number of people I have heard about or read about who ended up losing their faith when they started studying it in more detail. Has anyone read "Godless" by Dan Barker? Or anything by Bart Ehrman? It seems like where religion is concerned there is such a thing as too much knowledge.

One of the women at church shared a story about her son. Seems he was dating an ultra- ultra-conservative Catholic woman but he loved her so he decided to convert. She said to me "I know you will appreciate this story because you were raised Catholic." Well anyway, he starts taking classes, but when the priest told him that only Catholics were going to go to heaven and all others to hell (which is not quite true--the Church does give a lot more wiggle room to those outside than say the church I am going to now) he said to the priest, "I am sorry Father but I just cannot accept that." And that was the end of the conversion and the relationship though I understand she is still pursuing him with the aim of saving his soul.

The mother commented that it took a lot of courage for him to stand up to the priest and I agreed. But then I said to her that I was in much the same situation regarding what this church teaches. I can't accept it either. I also think it is a bit ironic that a Catholic is pursuing an Evangelical in order to save the Evangelical's soul. Not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot. So I guess what it boils down to is salvation is a matter of perspective.

 

[HelloDizzy]

I am Jewish technically but I really don't believe it. I've looked at various religions in search for truth. I don't believe any of them are accurate.

I'm not an atheist but I definitely have tendencies - I believe in God, but not the God everyone else believes in, in the traditional sense. I don't think God is all nice. I don't think God is always paying attention to your prayers (or maybe he just doesn't care) although I would like to believe this and I do pray. People don't seem to realize that, just like pretty rainbows and butterflies, this God figure also created poisonous snakes and serial killers.
And I'm not dissing God - "good" and "bad" are extremely subjective. God (who is not a grandpaw in the sky, but more of an all-inclusive spiritual-electrical current in the purest form) has the only true and pure objective point of view in the universe.

I believe athiests and agnostics are rampant in the Aspie world because of the logic we cling to, and this isn't bad, albeit it can leave us with a loss of hope.

 

[Christian T]

I completely identify with the woman's son. I despise the intolerant, rather dictatorial ways in which religion if often taught, but I don't believe that's a reflection of the religion itself. I think Catholics like the Father you mentioned are just as misguided as notorious Muslim extremists.

 

[Christian T]

I completely agree with you, and I'll add that the fact that God

has the only true and pure objective point of view in the universe

is what can make him seem so heartless and callous, in my opinion. Objectivity is very harsh and inhuman, because such a broad perspective is so far from the ignorant, emotional innocence that many would perceive as "good".

Yet, I think if a human with certain specific sympathies was in control, it certainly wouldn't be fair. As cold as objectivity is, it's the only true form of justice.

 

[Soup]

I'm an Athiest yet I've had a somewhat contradictory lifelong fascination with religious beliefs & practices.

If someone is worshipping something or someone or a group of 'entities', fearing it, sacrificing to it, prepared to kill or die for it, afraid concerned or worried about what'll happen to those who don't do so or do do the wrong way or don't do so with adequate fervour, reverence or deference, I want to know all about it. 'New Religions' (so called cults) fascinate me as well.

Many people seem to feel a compulsion to worship something or someone. Others get raised in a religion & continue engaging in some of the practices out of habit rather than conviction. Some people harbour deep doubts about the religion they're in but fear keeps them from truly exploring their thoughts on the matter. They may fear getting excommunicated or otherwise disfellowshipped, fear alienating friends & family or (the worst sort of fear) fear for the fate of their 'soul'.

Some too, true to our primitive early hominid ancestry, use spiritual/religious beliefs to fill the void of unanswered questions or to explain phenomena not yet explained by science. Some religions seem like fairy takes for grown-ups, some reek of scams designed to control masses, gain power for the leadership & make a fortune.

What I find interesting today is the way many people, disillusioned with mainstream religions of all sorts, develop so-called 'spirituality'. Some of these are New Age types, others claim to have reached deep into the past of their (or another) culture to rekindle the Pagan traditions that The Church (& other religious movements) tried to eradicate. This would include Pagans, Witches, Wiccans etc. Some of these movements have become so large that they're beginning to uncannily resemble mainstream religions complete with bickering & in-fighting that has lead to splits & new 'denominations'.

I won't bore you all with a soliloquy about why I am an Athiest; suffice it to say that I'm one.

 

[Christian T]

Some religions... reek of scams designed to control masses, gain power for the leadership & make a fortune.

I think the largest flaws of any religion are not inherent, but rather in the way that it's interpreted and implemented. For example, the horribly authoritarian catholic church of the middle ages, which Phillip Pullman so deeply criticises in His Dark Materials.

I'm also fascinated by other religions, particularly all of the allegories they have. On a more fantastical level, I like reading about the Ancient religions of Egypt, Greece and other empires.

 

[Soup]

Most of the time that's true, ChristianT. The glitch is that most organized religions are based on deliberately vaguely worded so-called holy books. To add to the confusion, vast amounts of saints, elite Rabbis, Imams & other commentators have added their 2 cents in & that too has taken on the cloak of doctrine. Much of this stuff can be interpreted to mean virtually anything any person conveniently wants it to mean! there are some intrinsic & inherent flaws as well: saying, 'Thou shalt not kill' & then listing a dizzying amount of times where killing & outright genocide was allegedly divinely orchestrated or commanded & listing exceptions to the rule (like thou shalt not suffer a witch to live & other pearls of wisdom)!

Other religions allow a man to beat his wife (or all 4 of them) for a variety of reasons. Some permit rape & are silent on child molestation!Most condone & promote SLAVERY (that venerable institution). There are specific rules at to how one must treat one's slaves & how a slave is to behave (which makes slavery A-OKAY!). These vary depending upon the holy book & the interpreter. NONE make it clear as to who exactly IS to be enslaved. Also, many intrinsically expect people to believe stories that would do a paranoid schizophrenic hopped up on PCP proud! Phenomena easily explained in meteorological terms or geological terms are given fanciful explanations an astute 5 year old would doubt.

The pre-Abrahamic religions are fascinating too. People were exceedingly creative in the stories they invented around their gods, the creation myths & the different ways in which these gods had to be worshipped. Very complicated business & screwing up could have dire consequences! I love learning all I can about these religions but I'm glad I'm not a member of any of them.

 

[rolo]

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further (Richard Dawkins) personally i have never believed in god or religion per se -i was sent to a catholic orphanage and forced to learn-followed by school ran by monks-you learn more about why not to believe than anything else- i learnt how people can easily hide and manipulate through religion- I am atheist but I do not condemn those who are not-science pretty much stacks against most religious beliefs in my opinion-however many people seek comfort where they can get it. Is it common amongst the Asperger community?-I hardly know any and am new to this forum so I will leave that to others who may be better informed.

 

[Soup]

What was it like being in a Catholic orphanage raised by monks, Rolo? That is most unusual. How was that for you as an Aspie? Where they understanding of your uniqueness?

 

[rolo]

Hi Soup- first i went to an orphanage but was the only kid that had parents-this singled me out as no-one could understand why I was there and neither could It was privately run by three people two women and a man-A really weird setup as i remember In the early seventies there was no asperger diagnosis- I spent most of my time alone-I left at seven to go to monastic school-that was much worse as it was boarding and difference was not tolerated-school was a nightmare from start to finish.Uniqness was not tolerated at public school-you were supposed to conform-I could not!

 

[Soup]

Surreal stuff! How did you manage? What did you do to cope? I would've been destroyed. You must be a very strong person indeed!

 

[rolo]

many people have told me about my inner strength-for me it was matter of survival-no-one ever knows their true strength until its tested.I believe you sell yourself short -you too cope everyday and are tested. I feel that the payback for years of tapping into that strength is intense anxiety, OCD and lonliness-I spend around 98% of my life totally alone I am trying to change this-I am glad I found this site to finally say hello to the world and believe it can help me to learn more and maybe do something about it here in the UK. reading through posts has been enlightening and also very funny. You are extremely erudite in your writing style-maybe I will pick up a few tips along the way.

 

[Soup]

"I feel that the payback for years of tapping into that strength is intense anxiety, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and loneliness." -Rolo.

Many people are this way without ever having had to face 1/4th of what you endured. You are much stronger than most & I hope you do write more about your experience & how you survived. I, for one, would love to read about that. I'm glad you like my writing. An obsession with writing is one of my Aspie traits & I've got some books in the works. This site will definitely help break your loneliness since you can socialize here when & if you feel like it with people who will understand you well.

 

[Christian T]

Soup, I know that many of these old texts contain outdated points of ideology, that are now considered hugely unjust, but I think that even those with the most gaping of flaws, that the "thou shalt not kill" could still be interpreted as something of a metaphor, perhaps saying that god's subjects may not kill independently, but the lord may do so through his subjects if he sees fit. I think at one point in the bible, when someone starts to question God's validity, he tells him "my ways are not yours" probably saying that we can't apply human logic and values to God's ways, but, not being a Christian myself, I don't exactly know.

 

[Soup]

Interesting thought stream, ChristianT. One of my profs in a Christian history class I took back at university interpreted it that way too. Where I run into a big problem with this (& so did he & he was a Catholic) is that, once the axe, gun, sword or bomb is being wielded by human hands (which is ALWAYS the case) what's to stop them from claiming impunity because they were acting under divine guidance, control or command? How can satisfying objectively verifiable proofs be proffered to validate their claims? This is akin to the many murderers (rapists & other ne'er do wells) who, once caught & incarcerated, undergo a prison-yard epiphany, claim that the devil made them do it & beg for release, forgiveness & another chance because they're now magically aware of & free from diabolic influences.

 

[Christian T]

Interesting thought stream, ChristianT. One of my profs in a Christian history class I took back at university interpreted it that way too. Where I run into a big problem with this (& so did he & he was a Catholic) is that, once the axe, gun, sword or bomb is being wielded by human hands (which is ALWAYS the case) what's to stop them from claiming impunity because they were acting under divine guidance, control or command? How can satisfying objectively verifiable proofs be proffered to validate their claims? This is akin to the many murderers (rapists & other ne'er do wells) who, once caught & incarcerated, undergo a prison-yard epiphany, claim that the devil made them do it & beg for release, forgiveness & another chance because they're now magically aware of & free from diabolic influences.

Oh, I agree with you about how things can get out of hand with that interpretation, but I was just pointing out that it's possible - but impractical - to interpret it that way.

I'm not of that belief. I believe that people always make independent choices that only they should be seen as responsible for. The only exceptions here, I think, are factors like upbringing and psychological conditions, but not spiritual forces - I personally don't believe in them, even though I've never thought science holds all the answers.

I hope I've just made sense, please tell me if I haven't.

 

[Tarragon]

I'm a Christian, but I do believe that many aspies become atheists because of our rigid & highly logical thinking.

I'd say that it isn't rigid at all to think logically and not be swayed by a crowd of people chanting to us that the world is flat, moon is made of cheese, Santa is real, we will go to heaven when we die, etc etc...

I'd say from my experience that religious people tend to be the most rigid in their mindset. Try talking logically to someone who is strongly religious, and it doesn't take long to come across this phenomenon!!

I am genuinely interested that so many people here in AC are religious. I think it shows just how strong upbringings and environment can affect everyone. I wonder how many religious people choose this mindset from a purely open and logical starting point...

.... and how frightening it is to think someone would swallow the whole dogma and superstition and closed mindset out of pure choice. Im not trying to insult anyone here, but logically, every religion cannot be the "right one" as they all claim. If one of them is right, and the others are all wrong... how crazy is that?? It's illogical to think that any one of them is the right choice, when there is no real evidence that ANY one of them is correct.

Any evidence offered up by religious people just goes to show how little grasp of logical reasoning is behind such claims.



Im only responding to the statement made that aspies are rigid. I'm not trying to upset anyone, but upset occurs when rigid thinking meets an open mind.


Oh, and in case there's any doubt, I'm not religious at all! Actually, I like Taoism, which isn't a religion. It's philosophy, which I think is more useful as it doesn't insist it is right(!). A lot of atheist thinking is mirrored in philosophical Taoism! Considering Taoist philosophy predates a lot of the mainstream religions (sorry Christianity!!) and was restricted in its circulation amongst the general population, this is why I like it. It doesn't set out to control anybody. It just is a way of looking at things. interestingly, I found that when I first read about it, I found myself realising I thought the same way as Taoism describes itself. I didn't force myself to think in the way it says you should, because it doesn't do that! unlike all the 'religions' of the world...