Lots and lots and lots of autistic folk

[Boogs]

There is also the issue that what constitutes an autism diagnosis is not the same as it was 30 years ago. It is more "generous" today. As the defintion becomes more inclusive, more are included.

For that matter, nobody (at least not in the US) was even looking 30 years ago. Now everyone is looking. The more you look for something, the more you find.

Sometimes, if you look for it hard enough, you can even find it where it isn't.

Absolutely!
And the number of resources put into testing, how people are selected for testing, etc etc etc.

Since the defn of autism shifts and changes constantly, with the diagnostics racing to keep up, it's hard to draw definitive conclusions on this beyond more people receiving a positive diagnosis.

 

[NB79]

There is a trend to favour ideologies instead of science or reality, who knows in what this is going to end.

 

[Streetwise]

I just read from a source that I have thought of as scientifically trustworthy that 1 out of 30 people are now being born autistic. Does that make sense? Seems like a whole lot of autistic people.

Diagnosed in some way as having autistic neurology!?

 

[mw2530]

I suspect the number of people on the spectrum is in fact rising, but I think the rate is also rising due to increased awareness and testing, especially in children. Parents are probably much more aware of autism and looking out for signs. My guess is county health departments communicate to parents signs of autism and schools are also aware of autism now. I think there still is a lot of judgement, confusion, and misunderstanding for adults. And lack of resources and difficulty in getting a diagnosis as an adult if that is what someone is looking for.

I think the rise in rates may also be attributed to changes in our occupations. Going from more blue collar work to white collar. You may be able to hide autism a little easier in a blue collar job. Perhaps not always the case, but generally white collar work involves more communication and ability for small talk. For example, my dad was a dairy farmer and he did have serious struggles in many areas including communication, he worked for himself so he could more or less do things how he wanted to. I work in an office setting which was a big transition and came with major struggles with the increased social and communication demands. Deficits are much more exposed in my work environment than my father's work environment.

 

[mw2530]

Theres increasing geriatric pregnancies in developed world which could account for some of the increase. Possibly environmental pollution too. Also theres more autism awareness which could mean more diagnosis'.

This could very well be attributed to some of the increases. Older mothers and fathers is definitely a risk factor. That was the case for my parents. Also, this may be multiplied by the fact that those of us on the spectrum tend to have delayed life milestones, so for us that do manage to have children, it probably tends to be when we are older.

 

[DrBadStrings]

Theres increasing geriatric pregnancies in developed world which could account for some of the increase. Possibly environmental pollution too. Also theres more autism awareness which could mean more diagnosis'.

I think it's just awareness and more professionals being able to recognize autism cases early on. And the resulting uptick in adult diagnoses where you've got the Boomers, Gen-X, and half the millenials that would have slipped through the cracks as autism wasn't really a thing when we were kids unless you were severely impaired. I'm late diagnosed myself at 42. And all the research I've done basically supports the idea of increased knowledge/awareness leading to increased diagnosis. As I'm reading stuff that's newer and newer in terms of year published I just see the rate increasing. And the nature of society has changed with industrialization and capitalism creating systems that are more and more difficult to navigate for ND's, which further makes them stand out.

 

[thejuice]

I think it's just awareness and more professionals being able to recognize autism cases early on. And the resulting uptick in adult diagnoses where you've got the Boomers, Gen-X, and half the millenials that would have slipped through the cracks as autism wasn't really a thing when we were kids unless you were severely impaired. I'm late diagnosed myself at 42. And all the research I've done basically supports the idea of increased knowledge/awareness leading to increased diagnosis. As I'm reading stuff that's newer and newer in terms of year published I just see the rate increasing. And the nature of society has changed with industrialization and capitalism creating systems that are more and more difficult to navigate for ND's, which further makes them stand out.

I agree with all that. However, as you probably know, pregnancies over 35 have an increased risk of downs syndrome and autism. Same with older fathers. Women are more likely to delay pregnancy in developed countries in order to have a career. Autism is not as prevalent in developing countries where the women aren't as educated. You might say autism is not as visible in the developing world though.

So id say it's a factor, it's a matter of what degree. I agree that awareness is probably a much bigger factor.

 

[DrBadStrings]

I really wish I could remember who it was I was reading about the nature of society and innovation that basically describes society as somewhat of a corkscrew affair. The idea that NT's keep perpetuating the society in a circular fashion while it's the ND's that come in and shake things up with new ideas and invention. Example: Early hunter gathers it would have been that ND that was hyper focused with an interest in rocks and hunting that saw a rock break and a sharp edge form. Then obsessed over it developing better and better versions until you've got knives and arrowheads. Revolutionizes hunting. But the ND was crap at spreading the information in the greater society. Along comes a NT friend that recognizes what the ND has achieved and get's the word out to everyone and society is forever changed.

The point being that I don't think autism/ND is anything new and that there has always been this rather sizeable portion within every group of humans. It just wasn't really identified as a thing.

 

[thejuice]

Also, this may be multiplied by the fact that those of us on the spectrum tend to have delayed life milestones, so for us that do manage to have children, it probably tends to be when we are older.

That's a great point

 

[thejuice]

I really wish I could remember who it was I was reading about the nature of society and innovation that basically describes society as somewhat of a corkscrew affair. NT's keep perpetuating the society in a circular fashion while it's the ND's that come in and shake things up with new ideas and invention. Example: Early hunter gathers it would have been that ND that was hyper focused with an interest in rocks and hunting that saw a rock break and a sharp edge form. Then obsessed over it developing better and better versions until you've got knives and arrowheads. Revolutionizes hunting. But the ND was crap at spreading the information in the greater society. Along comes a NT friend that recognizes what the ND has achieved and get's the word out to everyone and society is forever changed.

The point being that I don't think autism/ND is anything new and that there has always been this rather sizeable portion within every group of humans. It just wasn't really identified as a thing.

I think the stat we would need to find is the rate of severe autism. That way you could isolate biological Vs social awareness factors.

If there is such a stat. I need to brush up on history of autism awareness.

 

[RemyZee]

The study also took into account changes in the stats about who is diagnosed and according to it for the first time minority populations black and brown people are being diagnosed more often than non minority groups.

 

[thejuice]

There is a trend to favour ideologies instead of science or reality, who knows in what this is going to end.

I'd give this 10 likes if I could

 

[GrownupGirl]

It wasn't long ago when people's idea of an autistic person was a little white boy who sits rocking in a corner and stares into space all day. But now people are very gradually learning autism is a spectrum disorder and their idea of autistic people is becoming very slightly less narrow.

 

[thejuice]

I really wish I could remember who it was I was reading about the nature of society and innovation that basically describes society as somewhat of a corkscrew affair. NT's keep perpetuating the society in a circular fashion while it's the ND's that come in and shake things up with new ideas and invention.

I like that analogy. I also think of it like autistics sitting on the side lines, observing the madness and absurdity. Being solitary creatures, were able to have the freedom of independent, uncompromised thinking.

So objective observation + high tolerance to solitude + systematic, obsessive nature = progress.

 

[mw2530]

I like that analogy. I also think of it like autistics sitting on the side lines, observing the madness and absurdity. Being solitary creatures, were able to have the freedom of independent, uncompromised thinking.

So objective observation + high tolerance to solitude + systematic, obsessive nature = progress.

I suspect a deeper dive into many famous inventors or just famous leaders in their respective fields would reveal a high number of them being on the spectrum. Not sure if a study like this has been done. Not to mention the countless not famous people who have contributed to innovative ideas and thinking in their respective occupations.

 

[Kavigant]

Unfortunately, I doubt that.
I have meet too many irrational ppl on the spectrum to expect that to happen.

This.
I've seen autistic people on a couple of boards absolutely convinced that they're being perfectly logical about topics like history and "justice" when the matters seem far more subjective and slanted to me.

 

[thejuice]

This.
I've seen autistic people on a couple of boards absolutely convinced that they're being perfectly logical about topics like history and "justice" when the matters seem far more subjective and slanted to me

Under duress, rigid thinking > logic. Especially if they have a deeply burrowed mind parasite.

In debate, some autistics can become quite hard to reason with. I think its a form of emotional unresilience and inflexibility. It's an inability to deal with an intense emotional reaction to something that most would roll with. Some will shut up shop. Others can be illogically rude, aggressive and domineering. Even those that you would expect to be in a postion to set a good example. If you've been on the end of it, you know what i mean, and vow never to go back.

 

[Boogs]

I suspect a deeper dive into many famous inventors or just famous leaders in their respective fields would reveal a high number of them being on the spectrum. Not sure if a study like this has been done. Not to mention the countless not famous people who have contributed to innovative ideas and thinking in their respective occupations.

I'd take that further to say I suspect many an attributed inventor has actually been the person who was best at lauding themselves as the inventor, not the originator of the idea.
A trait (taking credit) that would seem to be far superior in NT's on average?

The same effect is apparent with women, who have made countless advances in science and arts (and more things I can't think of right now) and yet it's often their partners, bosses or colleagues who have taken credit, either because society won't accept woman being smarter than men so they have to hide their identity, or simply because of misogyny and dishonesty.

Interestingly it seems to me that in the past early developers and adopters of new technologies and ideas have often been ostracised socially, and while valued for what they bring to the table, are also reviled for the power that bestows on them, so they are treated with mistrust, fear, even enmity, and with good reason from 'normal' peoples p.o.v. (no-one trusts a witch or wizard even if they want their help).

 

[Jonn]

This.
I've seen autistic people on a couple of boards absolutely convinced that they're being perfectly logical about topics like history and "justice" when the matters seem far more subjective and slanted to me.

Agreed.

I keep on "harping on" about the autistic bell curve.
So I will do it here, also.

Yes, there are a lot of irrational ppl on the spectrum, but then studies have indicated that all human animals tend to make decisions based on emotional considerations, rather than rational/practical ones.

My belief, at the point in time, is that comparing the mean of those on the spectrum and NTs would indicate that high functioning autistic ppl would tend to be more rational, overall as a group.

 

[Jonn]

Under duress, rigid thinking > logic. Especially if they have a deeply burrowed mind parasite.

In debate, some autistics can become quite hard to reason with. I think its a form of emotional unresilience and inflexibility. It's an inability to deal with an intense emotional reaction to something that most would roll with. Some will shut up shop. Others can be illogically rude, aggressive and domineering. Even those that you would expect to be in a postion to set a good example. If you've been on the end of it, you know what i mean, and vow never to go back.

Emotion management is not our strong point, particularly in real life situations.
In a forum context, irrational outbursts "should" he heavily mitigated, I would think.