my aspie friend won't change

[BIMOG]

I thought that my original statement was unambiguous. "Accept people for what they are and not for what you wish them to be." Or if you wish, "What you see is what you get." That applies to both pleasant and unpleasant people. It doesn't mean that you should tolerate bad behavior or abuse at all, quite the reverse as it actually points out that you shouldn't assume that you can change someone, even if you hope to change them for the better. Basically if you truly like someone you should accept them as they are, faults and all. If you can't accept their faults then you should simply walk away because you are unlikely to ever change the person. However if you still feel the desire to change some aspects of that person you should simply ask yourself whether you really like them for what they are at all or whether in fact you actually like some idealized version of who you think they could or should be.

The OP pointed out several problem areas with her friend. She simply needs to decide whether her friend's good points outweigh those negative issues. If they do then simply accept that the negative aspects of the friendship are part and parcel of your friend and that you are unlike to change them. However if the negative aspects of the friendship outweigh the positive aspects then it's time to walk away as you are unlike to ever change those aspects that you dislike.

 

[Ylva]

Judgment is what those fairy tale girls are exercising when they're sorting a pile of different types of grain, lentils from peas, or poppy seeds from soil.

 

[On the Inside]

As Naturalist said, anxiety is a difficult beast, and one that is now treated mainly with pharmaceuticals. If for whatever reason you aren't into that, you have to deal with it some other way, and that might include choosing to live with it. I've suffered with anxiety for most of my life, did therapy, meditation, herbal, tried to just live with it, avoiding medication. I started treating it with medication about a year and a half ago and have had good results, but it took a few experiments to get the right thing.


This whole thread has made me wonder how/if anyone genuinely likes anyone else. I really have no idea if anyone "likes" me, and since I have a pretty limited social life, can easily conclude that few if any people do. I have chosen to limit my involvement with others, except my family and co-workers. My past friends who I considered close, all seem to have associated with me for particular reasons, which I have identified as "needs" that I was meeting for them, or that they wanted me to meet. I can easily see that many of them were of the codependent variety. When I changed, they didn't like the result, and disappeared. I can only think of a handful of people who I would call friends who I think actually accepted me as I am. But I never really spent that much time with them or did any activities with them, just hung out and talked.

 

[Uhura]

My personal opinion is that we need to focus on that AS and anxiety are two different things. It's true I don't understand why someone doesn't want to get help with anxiety but AS is so intertwined with personality that having someone ask you to treat that is an insult. I can separate them easily but you need to be able to do that to avoid being insulted. Might not be true fro everyone though but for me personally, needing to separate AS and anxiety would be a big part of this.

 

[Jacoby]

My best friend is an aspie, and she keeps telling me she won't try to become better or seek help for her anxiety and other issues because she likes the way she is, despite the fact that those things cause so much problems for her and for people close to her. I told her that you can like who you are and still try to improve, but she says I don't get it, and she's terrible at explaining herself, so I came here for help. I badly want to understand where she's coming from. Why won't she try to improve herself?? I asked if it was because she was scared and becoming better was too much work, but she said it wasn't that. She just keeps saying, "This is who I am and I embrace who I am. Why can't you accept me for me?" But the thing is, no matter how much you love and accept yourself, YOU CAN ALWAYS TRY TO IMPROVE. I don't understand why she can't do that.

I can only answer this from my perspective and I would say that this is anxiety and fear of change, fear of failure and rejection whatever. A defense mechanism. I was like this once, I still struggle every day. It took years and losing friends and basically almost all connections to the outside world for me to realize the error in my thinking. Avoidance is recipe for death, you cannot be happy living this way. It is 100% right saying you can't force a person to change, that has to come from inside and hopefully your friend realizes this before it is too late.

 

[On the Inside]

Well said, Jacoby.

 

[Ylva]

It took years and losing friends and basically almost all connections to the outside world for me to realize the error in my thinking.

What exactly was the error?

 

[Jacoby]

What exactly was the error?

That nothing was wrong, that I didn't need help, I didn't talk and even try to think about it. Its easy to get overwhelmed and want to hide away, I always had someone which was maybe all I needed up until I didn't and maybe I blame myself too much but I wasn't a good friend and I can't expect for someone to share the same feelings when I keep them at arm's length. It's not weakness to seek help, it shouldn't be a humiliating experience to get the accommodations that you need.

 

[Datura]

There seem to be two seperate debates in this thread; one is weather or not an indevidual should try to change and other, the second debate is weather indeviduals should strive to realize their problems and make an effort at self improvement.

I have already made my stance on the first point abundantly clear; if somebody is unwilling to change then it is a wast of energy forcing the point. On the other hand; I believe that we are all responsible to be the best person we can be. This requires us to change ourselves on a consistent ongoing basis. This is not to say that one stops being themselves. I mean, I am person who has pannic attacks when I have to write a resume. If I find a way to overcome that phobia does that make me somehow less myself? I don't think so. If, on the other hand, somebody told me that I should become a mouslem and start liking football that would fundamentally clash with my self concept.

I have long theorized that there are aspects of ourselves that are intrinsic to our identites, and others that are superficial or transitory. In fact, I have given a great deal of thought to the notion of identity over the years and belive that preservation one's identity can trump just about anything. To be transformed into something other can be so profoundly desturbing that we might endure great pain, even death, to avoid such a fate. In many respects I believe this at the core of many our ethical systems. One might say, "I am a good person, and a good person does X.", therefore not doing X would be at odds with their identity and thus a risk to their exestential self preservation. So it is with any number of things. But if one were to take the totality of their characteristcs and hold onto each one with equal fervour this would leave one trapped in a state of perpetual stagnation.

 

[Warmheart]

Why don't you try harder?" --- said plenty to most verbal autistics/Aspies by those who do not yet understand ASD.

Don't be bamboozled by the fact we may be verbal.
She's dealing with everything you are dealing with in life, plus a multitude of things you cannot even imagine.
She cannot even communicate well enough to tell you that you don't understand... that you don't understand!

Try harder?



We have heard this ad nauseum by those who are dazzled by our ability to have speech and remain unaware of our challenges. Remember, verbal skills are just that-- verbal skills. Strong sensory sensitivities can mean a trip to the grocery overwhelms and deep-fries her brain, executive functioning challenges can make planning a meal (beyond just grabbing an apple from the fridge) beyond some Aspies' abilities, and a limited social energy reserve can mean a half hour coffee with friends can leave her with a "social migraine" for days, requiring that she sequester herself to rebound. No wonder she's a bit anxious.

Do you want her to do better for her-- or for you? Pardon my question, but you mention her lack of "trying hard enough" seems to bother you.
If it's for her wellness, know that: We do better when our ASD challenges are supported.



I hope she has a caring, knowledgeable ASD specialist to provide targeted services.
When someone understands us, we REALLY try very, very hard.

Enjoy & focus on the gifts of your friend's autism: her loyalty, her laserbeam focus, her brilliant, creative mind, her honesty.

Please consider that there is more going on below the surface of an Aspie than you are currently aware.
She loves you. She has patience with you, and kind compassion for your current level of understanding of her ASD.
Your friend truly, deeply cares about you.
She is making room for you in her world. For an Aspie, that's pretty darn significant.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

Good grief....

Enjoy & focus on the gifts of your friend's autism: her loyalty, her laserbeam focus, her brilliant, creative mind, her honesty.

What? Seriously, how do you know the friend has these traits? Literally all you know about her is she has Asperger's! Imagine praising somebody solely because they're black/white or some other random binary. I would actually be insulted if somebody tried to praise me without knowing the first thing about me! You're sticking up for a stereotype, not a real, flesh-and-blood, person.

Or does the saying "if you've met one person with autism you've met one person with autism" no longer apply? I can't keep up with this stuff.

Edited to add: I'm kinda intuiting my post wasn't as tactful as it could be. But I'm not sure how to put it more 'sensitively', other than simply deleting the thing altogether.

 

[Datura]

NiceCupOfTea, I agree that your tone could use work, but also agree with you central point. One can not make such sweeping generalizations about people on the spectrum. A positive stereotype (eg. All Asians are good at math. Gay men have fabulous fassion sense.) is still presumptuous and potentially harmfull.

Warmheart; though I disagree with you in this instance I appreciate your efforts to look on the bright side of life. Many people on this forum are hurting, in one way or an other, so your positivity is invaluable to the community.

 

[Mira]

I was diagnosed as a teenager and have spent years working on issues like the ones you describe. The psychiatrist who diagnosed me has done a lot of work with people with Asperger's and I was lucky to be in his care. He helped me a lot but there were some things that I realized on my own that were essential to the process. It is so easy to conflate working on detrimental issues with not accepting your condition, but they are not the same. I will always have Asperger's. It will cause me suffering at times but it is also part of what makes me great. I don't think like most of the people around me and that can be both good and bad. It makes socializing more difficult but it also lets me come up with great ideas no one else thought of. It is part of who I am. But that does not mean I can't grow and change as a person. I have spent over a decade learning how to act more appropriately in social situations, facing my anxieties, and trying to meet the world halfway. I try very hard not to ask the world to make accommodations for me without me making some accommodations for it. But it goes both ways. Finding the balance between self-improvement and self-acceptance took a very long time and there were a lot of times I thought it was impossible.


Another mentality that is hard to shake is that changing who you are is a bad thing. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. A selfish person who works hard to care about others is changing who they are as much as a kind person who gets fed up and starts to only think about themselves. Either way, they are changing. Unfortunately, like a lot of people have mentioned, you can't make a person change. Your friend has to make the decision. If you are willing to make sacrifices for the friendship and she isn't the relationship is one-sided and that is not fair to you.


You wanted to understand why your friend is doing this. I don't know her so all I can offer are possibilities. While I feel all the effort I have put into improving my detrimental feelings and behaviors is worth it, it was incredibly hard. It is also a never ending process. I have to work every day to be able to compromise with the world and it is daunting. I had an amazing support system when I began and I was still scared. If changing was possible, so was failing. Also, your friend might not think it is possible to change. Fear and expected futility are hard to overcome. Another factor is exhaustion. Having Asperger's is hard and sometimes just getting through the day takes all of your energy. Your friend says that she doesn't want to work on certain things because she likes herself and she could be telling the truth. She might mean just what she says. Or it could be all of the above. There are a lot of times when I really don't know how I feel or I think I feel one way but there is something I am just not realizing.


I hope that I did not sound preachy in this post. This was not meant as some kind of lecture; just expressing some of my feelings. Sometimes my tone and my intent don't match up so I wanted to make that clear. I hope this helps.

 

[MEDL86]

Yes, that's more of what I'm trying to say. I dont understand why she won't do it.

I won't pretend to know your friend, nor what they've been through, but it sounds as though she has made up her mind about it, likely from having dealt with the inability to change her situation (anxiety).
The way you describe her reactions, sounds a lot like me.
Based on my personal experiences, this is my line of thinking (again, I won't pretend to know her, or her situation, this is just my take on it):

She probably feels like you're trying to change her in some way, to suit your needs and wants, while dismissing her viewpoint that she's ok the way she is. This can lead to her feeling like she's not good enough for inclusion in your life, and that you're openly hinting at that when asking her to "fix" her anxiety, and from her standpoint, she might see your motivation as purely selfish in nature. Whether this is the actuality or not, is irrelevant, if the perception is there, and I think it is, then that's going to lead to problems.
She needs to know that you accept her, for who she is now, in totality, regardless of your views on her issues, and you should recognize that, while you only want to help, you may be pressuring her in ways that you don't realize, by asking her to seek help with something that she doesn't perceive as being a problem. Does this mean you should cater to her whims as a result of her anxiety? Not at all. Just recognizing that she's ok with her level of anxiety will go a long way. The key factor in this is to encourage her without openly addressing her anxiety as being a problem, and also accepting that some things just aren't going to happen. This can strain friendships, true, but in the end, she has to want to do more, to be more than she is, on her own.

Again, this may not be the case here, but I've actually heard this my whole life, where people want me to change for them, and they put it about the same as you've put it here. In my case, I don't go out to places unless I have a reason to, and people see that and assume that I need to change that. That leads to them saying things like "you should get out more, be more social", but that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, and I've stated that so many times. From my perspective, I don't understand why other people think I need to fix something that I don't have a problem with, and the idea that I should change it just because they think I should, is a selfish one.
Also, again in my experience dealing with anxiety, your friend might have tried, and failed, at changing her anxiety, without anyone else's knowledge.
When I first approached my anxiety issues, I tried counseling (didn't help), and medication to help me deal with the problem. Nothing worked, and the medication actually made the situation worse in some cases. One particular medication I was on, I'm pretty sure it was paxil, actually made me go into rages (as a side effect). Needless to say, I do not openly discuss that part of my life, with anyone (the only reason I'm doing it here, is to outline just how bad it can be for some people with anxiety), not even my girlfriend, because of how painful it was for me, to see it happening to myself, and not be able to control it. I gave up on trying to do something about my anxiety at that point, because my (and doctors') attempt to do so, had led me to worse situations.
I'm not saying that happened with your friend, but it is one of countless possibilities.
I would personally love to rid myself of anxiety, but my experiences have taught me that it just isn't going to happen without changing me into something I don't want to be.

Again, I'm sure you mean well, but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if your friendship with her surpasses the issues that she faces every day, and if it does, you should be prepared to face the reality that some things will not change, not because of a lack of trying, but because of a lack of means. And maybe, just maybe, the alternative could be worse.