Neurodivergent marriage

[Dalana789]

Hello everyone! I would like to get advice from neurodivergent people I am a neurotypical wife and my husband has ADHD and Asperger's syndrome. For many years now, we have been having constant disagreements in the family. My husband has always been strange, but no one paid attention to this until I started dating him and digging up information in this area. So we found first ADHD, then Asperger's.

for five years now, my husband has been making the same mistakes that make me unhappy. He does not want to hear anything about the fact that with ADHD and Asperger's, with constant work on yourself, you can live, love and create very well. For several years now, he has not been able to congratulate me on my birthday: either he forgot completely, or he forgot about the gift, this birthday I myself already told him what to give, but he still mixed everything up.

I always tell him: if something is not clear - ask. Do not make surprises - asked. In every unclear situation - ask. I am your crutch, I am your assistant. What you asked is already important to me, because this is a manifestation of care. But he continues to do nothing, arguing that he has ADHD and Asperger's and "Don't you understand, it's hard for me to do this, tell me about all your complaints on Sunday from 13 to 14. The rest of the time I don't perceive you." and so, hiding behind Asperger's and ADHD, he continues to do nothing for many years.

On my birthday, I cried. On my son's birthday, he did nothing for me or for my son. And constantly... You don't understand, I have ADHD, I CAN'T do anything.

 

[FilterFreq]

That's strange; most of the people in my life who act like that are heavy users of alcohol or other drugs. If there's nothing obvious keeping him down, this might be an opportunity for couple's counseling or something. TBH, this isn't what I'd consider to be typical behavior with AuDHD (that's what I have as well), but we're all different.

Even the people I've encountered on this site and in the community elsewhere are all genuinely caring and highly-empathetic, although often misunderstood by NTs. Your case sounds a bit more challenging than that.

 

[Outdated]

That story makes me sad, having autism doesn't excuse poor character or lack of simple common courtesy.

 

[Alexej]

Hi

Here are some links that might be of interest to you.


Courses | NeuroDiverse

Resources | Autism Spectrum

Home - Jodi Carlton, MEd, LLC - Neurodiverse Relationship Expert

 

[Hypnalis]

Interpolating a bit:

There are M/F difference in assigning and handling tasks.

It's a film and TV trope that goes back to the early years of TV:
F says "please do this" at what seems like a random moment, and M, doing something else at the time, perhaps resting, says "I'll do it later", and something comical or a "soap opera event" ensues.

Coincidentally It's currently mildly popular on YouTube (women reacting the minute a Video Game console is turned on /lol).

Women don't actually "simultaneously multi-task" better than men, but they are, on aggregate, much better at time-slicing many smaller tasks. across time. Guys are better at taking one big thing, sequencing it to get to completion of the main goal, then following the sequence to completion.

OFC your husband might be taking advantage of the situation too. But that doesn't affect your possible actions.

If he has iADHD he might be assuming he's remember something, but lose it next time he walks through a door and tries to remember what he intended to do in the other room
Some people defer and/or forget, and then wipe what happened from memory. But it's not a binary situation: nobody forgets everything about their hobbies.

So you need a "self-operating" routine for delegation. One that doesn't involve you being forced to track every activity, including all of his.

But there's a grey area between yours and his.
e.g. I pay no attention to my own birthday, and haven't since I was in my mid-teens. OFC I don't naturally pay special attention to other people's either.
There's an innate M/F difference regarding the "affirming" aspect of birthdays anyway. And ASDs with iADHD are probably among the "worst" on the M side. But even so, he should at least follow your instructions.

Have you tried a whiteboard for big things like birthdays?
(i.e. not a day planner - just big important things)

 

[Dalana789]

Interpolating a bit:

There are M/F difference in assigning and handling tasks.

It's a film and TV trope that goes back to the early years of TV:
F says "please do this" at what seems like a random moment, and M, doing something else at the time, perhaps resting, says "I'll do it later", and something comical or a "soap opera event" ensues.

Coincidentally It's currently mildly popular on YouTube (women reacting the minute a Video Game console is turned on /lol).

Women don't actually "simultaneously multi-task" better than men, but they are, on aggregate, much better at time-slicing many smaller tasks. across time. Guys are better at taking one big thing, sequencing it to get to completion of the main goal, then following the sequence to completion.

OFC your husband might be taking advantage of the situation too. But that doesn't affect your possible actions.

If he has iADHD he might be assuming he's remember something, but lose it next time he walks through a door and tries to remember what he intended to do in the other room
Some people defer and/or forget, and then wipe what happened from memory. But it's not a binary situation: nobody forgets everything about their hobbies.

So you need a "self-operating" routine for delegation. One that doesn't involve you being forced to track every activity, including all of his.

But there's a grey area between yours and his.
e.g. I pay no attention to my own birthday, and haven't since I was in my mid-teens. OFC I don't naturally pay special attention to other people's either.
There's an innate M/F difference regarding the "affirming" aspect of birthdays anyway. And ASDs with iADHD are probably among the "worst" on the M side. But even so, he should at least follow your instructions.

Have you tried a whiteboard for big things like birthdays?
(i.e. not a day planner - just big important things)

We tried EVERYTHING: lists, boards, stickers at home on objects and sticky notes with actions that we need to remember, he has a list of everything that I and the child love on his phone, he has reminders, he has a bunch of programs on his phone with reminders. I try to write everything, not talk, I attach links and comments, there was a psychologist, there was cognitive behavioral therapy, he took antidepressants. But at the same time, he did not work on himself inside for a minute. He says that there are changes, but I do not see them because I cried on my birthday a few years ago, and I still do. And a lot more.

He does not listen or accept anyone's advice. Even if a driver with 30 years of experience gives him advice, he will still argue with him. He always thinks that he is smarter than everyone else.

 

[Roisin]

Just putting this out there, based on brief online description... Demand avoidance?

Demand avoidance

 

[Dalana789]

Just putting this out there, based on brief online description... Demand avoidance?

Demand avoidance

Yes, but how to deal with this? There are ways, aren't there? Or is it all useless? How can we live together if everything is on me? Children, finances, dog, planning, etc.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We tried EVERYTHING: lists, boards, stickers at home on objects and sticky notes with actions that we need to remember, he has a list of everything that I and the child love on his phone, he has reminders, he has a bunch of programs on his phone with reminders. I try to write everything, not talk, I attach links and comments, there was a psychologist, there was cognitive behavioral therapy, he took antidepressants. But at the same time, he did not work on himself inside for a minute. He says that there are changes, but I do not see them because I cried on my birthday a few years ago, and I still do. And a lot more.

He does not listen or accept anyone's advice. Even if a driver with 30 years of experience gives him advice, he will still argue with him. He always thinks that he is smarter than everyone else.

That somewhat changes the advice I was thinking of when reading your initial post. It sounds like you already tried a lot.

Does he work? How does he spend his days? Is work manageable for him, or are there complaints as well?

Having autism and ADHD sure makes many things in life challenging, and I believe that many things are harder for us than for NTs (however, I believe that other things may be harder for NTs too). It's a fine line, after discovering you're autistic (and ADHD), to identify your struggles and hardships, advocating for yourself and accommodating yourself, while not using your neurodivergence as an excuse to stop challenging yourself.

Sometimes, when I am tired or have a bad day, I also catch myself saying "I just don't want to do this right now" or "I just want it this way right now" and behaving like a toddler. Usually, I am overstimulated and tired then. I believe it's normal within limits. There are also days where I literally am too exhausted - physically and mentally - to help with household tasks. Fortunately, it's just sometimes.

To me, a question would be whether he genuinely accepted being autistic and ADHD, and understands the implications. Has he tried medication for ADHD? Meeting other neurodivergent people might also be beneficial for him, to see what people with autism/ADHD do in their lives, to broaden his view.

Also, the psychologist and counseling you did - was it with a professional who has enough experience with neurodivergent people? That seems crucial to me. If not, you might want to try someone like that.

The way you describe it, he seems to have accepted the autism and ADHD bit, but got stuck there. Has he informed himself about neurodivergence?

with ADHD and Asperger's, with constant work on yourself, you can live, love and create very well

That really depends on the person, and on how you define "well". Coping strategies for autistic people for "living well" might be to have an extremely rigid daily routine, so they get their place cleaned, keep themselves fed, and earn money somehow. But it might be impossible for someone else to live with them, because the routine is just so rigorous. "Love well" is also tricky - reading a bit on this forum might show you that people on here have very different relationships and very different ways of viewing their life partner. Your way of loving someone might not be the same way your husband sees his life partner. I don't really know what you mean by "create well".

What I mean is: Same as your husband working on him, maybe you should think also about what you expect as the perfect outcome. Even if he started "working on himself" (which is also an inexact term), the possible outcome might not be what you wish for. You're right to wish for him to become more active and show more initiative in your marriage. But it might really be that he is not able to give you what you seek.

 

[Roisin]

Yes, but how to deal with this? There are ways, aren't there? Or is it all useless? How can we live together if everything is on me? Children, finances, dog, planning, etc.

It sounds like you are quite distressed, that this has been building for a long time and that you are now stretched too thinly.

What to do is beyond the remit of an online forum IMO, though there have been thoughtful replies, and helpful suggestions, that are perhaps better absorbed at a less distressing time.

Healthy self care is one suggestion I could feel certain in giving... you are holding a lot of responsibility, a carer for your household while increasingly isolated from the man you love. Minding yourself, purposely doing things that bring you joy, things that bring you back to you, to your love for yourself.

To bolster your inner strength, topping up your reserves, before you focus on the tasks of maintaining your relationship.

 

[Hypnalis]

We tried EVERYTHING: lists, boards, stickers at home on objects and sticky notes with actions that we need to remember, he has a list of everything that I and the child love on his phone, he has reminders, he has a bunch of programs on his phone with reminders. I try to write everything, not talk, I attach links and comments, there was a psychologist, there was cognitive behavioral therapy, he took antidepressants. But at the same time, he did not work on himself inside for a minute. He says that there are changes, but I do not see them because I cried on my birthday a few years ago, and I still do. And a lot more.

He does not listen or accept anyone's advice. Even if a driver with 30 years of experience gives him advice, he will still argue with him. He always thinks that he is smarter than everyone else.

It's possible he's outside the range anyone here can understand. In general, ASD's who can work can also take care of themselves in a household, and many who find some work environments challenging can also run a household. Ditto people with iADHD.

I have both. It makes some things harder for me than they are for NT''s, but nothing that I can't adjust to.
For example it's quite hard for me to get started with something, but (within my existing skills and experience OFC) I'm effective when I get started. And where it matters, I find a way to adjust. With close colleagues I just tell them, and we find ways to handle it.

If you have reason to believe that's definitely what your husband has (i.e. there's nothing else significant), and he doesn't have more extreme forms of either one, my experience might be useful.

But I don't have a "magic wand", and certainly much less experience than a medical professional.

FWIW many small reminders don't work for me at all.
But despite my "high startup threshold", I'm good in chaotic crisis situations, where the environment changes quickly, and you need to be decisive. (I work in IT - when things go wrong it can get very complicated very fast.

If your husband is anything like that we may have something in common that could help you.

 

[Dalana789]

That somewhat changes the advice I was thinking of when reading your initial post. It sounds like you already tried a lot.

Does he work? How does he spend his days? Is work manageable for him, or are there complaints as well?

Having autism and ADHD sure makes many things in life challenging, and I believe that many things are harder for us than for NTs (however, I believe that other things may be harder for NTs too). It's a fine line, after discovering you're autistic (and ADHD), to identify your struggles and hardships, advocating for yourself and accommodating yourself, while not using your neurodivergence as an excuse to stop challenging yourself.

Sometimes, when I am tired or have a bad day, I also catch myself saying "I just don't want to do this right now" or "I just want it this way right now" and behaving like a toddler. Usually, I am overstimulated and tired then. I believe it's normal within limits. There are also days where I literally am too exhausted - physically and mentally - to help with household tasks. Fortunately, it's just sometimes.

To me, a question would be whether he genuinely accepted being autistic and ADHD, and understands the implications. Has he tried medication for ADHD? Meeting other neurodivergent people might also be beneficial for him, to see what people with autism/ADHD do in their lives, to broaden his view.

Also, the psychologist and counseling you did - was it with a professional who has enough experience with neurodivergent people? That seems crucial to me. If not, you might want to try someone like that.

The way you describe it, he seems to have accepted the autism and ADHD bit, but got stuck there. Has he informed himself about neurodivergence?

That really depends on the person, and on how you define "well". Coping strategies for autistic people for "living well" might be to have an extremely rigid daily routine, so they get their place cleaned, keep themselves fed, and earn money somehow. But it might be impossible for someone else to live with them, because the routine is just so rigorous. "Love well" is also tricky - reading a bit on this forum might show you that people on here have very different relationships and very different ways of viewing their life partner. Your way of loving someone might not be the same way your husband sees his life partner. I don't really know what you mean by "create well".

What I mean is: Same as your husband working on him, maybe you should think also about what you expect as the perfect outcome. Even if he started "working on himself" (which is also an inexact term), the possible outcome might not be what you wish for. You're right to wish for him to become more active and show more initiative in your marriage. But it might really be that he is not able to give you what you seek.

Yes, he works. He has almost no responsibilities, except for walking the dog, and even then, he sometimes forgets to pour water and put out food. I also manage the finances, although for several years he did this, but it was bad. He goes into complete denial day after day. His addiction to cigarettes is just terrible, he just can't live without them. I wrote a post to understand whether autism and ADHD really prevent him from working on himself and I ask too much or he just does not fully understand that he has autism and ADHD.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

My girlfriend does not really like to give gifts, at least not at typical times (birthdays, holidays). This was a little jarring for me at first, because it's what I'm used to. But, my own family gives gifts instead of real love. Some also use gifts as punishment. So, I realize I don't really need gifts or have such a pleasant experience with them. They're just what I'm used to. I can accept my girlfriend's way, and even enjoy it.

By adapting to her, we find better ways to love each other and go through life. I don't hold onto an idea of how love should be, or how she or girlfriends should be.

Of course, if accepting the other person cannot lead to a healthy relationship, this is another issue.

 

[Rodafina]

@Dalana789

My first reaction to your original post is that the dynamics of your relationship may be contributing to your problems more than the issue of neurodivergence.

You describe your husband as "strange." You want him to ask you about everything he doesn't understand. You describe yourself as his "crutch" and "assistant." To me, it sounds like you treat your husband like a child and you want him to be something that he is not.

If your husband does not have intrinsic motivation and a desire to take the initiative to change, you may forever be trapped in a dynamic where you are trying to change him and negatively impacting his sense of worth while getting ever more frustrated and disappointed yourself.

I would consider getting an objective third opinion and seeking out a therapist for both of you so that you can examine your own contribution to the problems that you are both having.

 

[AspieChris]

He does not listen or accept anyone's advice. Even if a driver with 30 years of experience gives him advice, he will still argue with him. He always thinks that he is smarter than everyone else.

Ever considered that his situation could include more than just Asperger’s and ADHD?

I’m an Aspie with ADHD. My wife is an NT. It’s been a struggle but I believe that I can learn something from every person I meet, even if it’s just learning what NOT to do. I struggle with birthdays and holidays, and my memory is like playing hide and seek with important dates and names. But I keep trying because I really do want to be the best husband for my wife.

The reason we work well together is that she excels at the stuff I’m horrible at, and vice versa. So I always remember to change the oil on the car (without asking her to remember) , and she makes sure that the kids get what they want on their birthdays (without frustration when I forget). It’s a delicate balance but it works because we both actually want to be the best we can be for eachother, even when we fail.

Your husband sounds a lot like my brother. Very absorbed in his own stuff. Neglecting his bills, wife, children, and his own health. And zero recognition that he has any problems to work on within himself. Everything bad that happens to him is someone else’s fault. He was IMPOSSIBLE to live with when we were kids, and I’d rather pull out my fingernails than be married to him.

I don’t really have any advice except to say that you might want to just start buying yourself really nice presents on your birthday/anniversary/etc and tell him “Look what you got me for my birthday”. At least you’ll be gettIng nice presents and not arguing with your spouse.

 

[AspieChris]

His addiction to cigarettes is just terrible, he just can't live without them

That’s probably a self soothing action. It’s like hitting a little reset button when life becomes overwhelming. Eventually it becomes a crutch that we cant live without, and we don’t even know how it started.

 

[Dalana789]

Ever considered that his situation could include more than just Asperger’s and ADHD?

I’m an Aspie with ADHD. My wife is an NT. It’s been a struggle but I believe that I can learn something from every person I meet, even if it’s just learning what NOT to do. I struggle with birthdays and holidays, and my memory is like playing hide and seek with important dates and names. But I keep trying because I really do want to be the best husband for my wife.

The reason we work well together is that she excels at the stuff I’m horrible at, and vice versa. So I always remember to change the oil on the car (without asking her to remember) , and she makes sure that the kids get what they want on their birthdays (without frustration when I forget). It’s a delicate balance but it works because we both actually want to be the best we can be for eachother, even when we fail.

Your husband sounds a lot like my brother. Very absorbed in his own stuff. Neglecting his bills, wife, children, and his own health. And zero recognition that he has any problems to work on within himself. Everything bad that happens to him is someone else’s fault. He was IMPOSSIBLE to live with when we were kids, and I’d rather pull out my fingernails than be married to him.

I don’t really have any advice except to say that you might want to just start buying yourself really nice presents on your birthday/anniversary/etc and tell him “Look what you got me for my birthday”. At least you’ll be gettIng nice presents and not arguing with your spouse.

I want exactly the same thing as you: when a husband and wife complement each other and become one. But we have nothing but denials and an absolute lack of faith in anything other than ourselves. Whether an autistic person or someone else, you can always find a compromise, but only when both agree to it. Now he wrote on his page that his situation is similar to when a person with one leg is asked to run and jump, but he can't.

 

[Dalana789]

My girlfriend does not really like to give gifts, at least not at typical times (birthdays, holidays). This was a little jarring for me at first, because it's what I'm used to. But, my own family gives gifts instead of real love. Some also use gifts as punishment. So, I realize I don't really need gifts or have such a pleasant experience with them. They're just what I'm used to. I can accept my girlfriend's way, and even enjoy it.

By adapting to her, we find better ways to love each other and go through life. I don't hold onto an idea of how love should be, or how she or girlfriends should be.

Of course, if accepting the other person cannot lead to a healthy relationship, this is another issue.

I don't really like presents myself, and I don't like fresh flowers. The most important thing for me is understanding that a person has done something for you, even if it's just getting out of bed when he didn't want to, but for you. On one of my birthdays, I asked him (he hasn't done surprises for a long time, because it's almost always a failure) to make me paper flowers with his own hands. There are many different schemes on the Internet. But he forgot about it and did it like a little child, carrying something different an hour before I woke up. And it looked like he did it for the most hated person in the universe.

Even now, I asked him to give me a bouquet of roses made from a Lego set. I sent him a link to the store and wrote that I want you to give me such a bouquet of roses. And he gave me a set in a box.

 

[AspieChris]

I want exactly the same thing as you: when a husband and wife complement each other and become one. But we have nothing but denials and an absolute lack of faith in anything other than ourselves. Whether an autistic person or someone else, you can always find a compromise, but only when both agree to it. Now he wrote on his page that his situation is similar to when a person with one leg is asked to run and jump, but he can't.

It sounds like he’s in complete denial. He’s not the problem. Everyone else is expecting too much. Etc.

My experience is that those types of people won’t ever really change unless they begin to understand that they are themselves at the root of all of these problems. Even if he was to go to therapy, he might make some positive changes but ultimately settle right back into where he is right now. And that part has little to do with Asperger’s or ADHD.

The trick is to ‘help’ him understand that although he’s not broken, it is him that needs to change. And that might not be possible. He needs to want it, or it’ll never happen. You can’t want it more than he does.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I sent him a link to the store and wrote that I want you to give me such a bouquet of roses. And he gave me a set in a box.

To be fair, this is something that might have happened to me as well, simply out of a misunderstanding - I might have thought that the person simply wanted the box for the bouquet, not me making the bouquet for them
Just a little joke on the side. You probably were clear with him about it.

Situations like these make me think about whether knowing about their condition (I write condition because I don't mean only autism or ADHD) is always beneficial for the person. Usually, I think yes, but I just discussed this with my partner, and this makes me think further. Some people use their diagnoses as excuses to stay stuck in life and to stop trying - voluntarily or involuntarily. Sometimes that reaction is necessary for a certain amount of time, e.g. to recover from burnout, but if it persists, it becomes unhealthy and harmful.