Not a nice person

[MoCoffee]

I learned the hard way that I cannot do everything people ask of me. I have a really hard time with confrontation of any kind, so I would say yes to everything, and ended up so overwhelmed I couldn't do anything at all. Now I do what I can, when I can and say no to the rest.

 

[Judge]

I suppose what I find so hurtful is when our closest loved ones drop the ball in forgetting or not understanding our behaviors and traits. Getting such treatment from total strangers can be draining, but when it's from someone in our inner circle it cuts deep.

They are the ones who most likely know we try when and where we can, and what a struggle it can be at times. It's when they let us down the most and they probably don't even realize it.

 

[garnetflower13]

I suppose what I find so hurtful is when our closest loved ones drop the ball in forgetting or not understanding our behaviors and traits. Getting such treatment from total strangers can be draining, but when it's from someone in our inner circle it cuts deep.

They are the ones who most likely know we try when and where we can, and what a struggle it can be at times. It's when they let us down the most and they probably don't even realize it.

I agree with this! My husband who is much more NT than Aspie, has inadvertently hurt me this way. It took him a long time to understand that my customary facial expression is one of intense concentration, and not anger or some other emotion. And he is learning to not read things into anything that I say, because it will be incorrect. For example, if I say "Are you going to leave that coat on that chair?" He will assume that I have an objection of some kind, no matter how many times I have said that if I have an objection he will most certainly hear about it! In the example I gave, it could have been that I was going to place my coat on that same chair and was concerned if there would be enough room for both coats.

 

[Biblio-Love]

I agree with this! My husband who is much more NT than Aspie, has inadvertently hurt me this way. It took him a long time to understand that my customary facial expression is one of intense concentration, and not anger or some other emotion. And he is learning to not read things into anything that I say, because it will be incorrect. For example, if I say "Are you going to leave that coat on that chair?" He will assume that I have an objection of some kind, no matter how many times I have said that if I have an objection he will most certainly hear about it! In the example I gave, it could have been that I was going to place my coat on that same chair and was concerned if there would be enough room for both coats.

This happens to me all the time. I say something or ask a question and he gets all angry or self-defensive like I am accusing him of something. I am, however, merely asking a direct question and not insinuating anything.

 

[Judge]

This happens to me all the time. I say something or ask a question and he gets all angry or self-defensive like I am accusing him of something. I am, however, merely asking a direct question and not insinuating anything.

Happens to me all the time as well. Neurotypicals assuming I am being deliberately condescending with some kind of agenda, when all I am doing is being direct- and to the point. So instead of simply answering to the point, they attack and insult me. As if I've violated their socialization protocols.

And they claim it is us being the ones with a communications deficit? I must be dense...because this is the sort of thing I don't get and probably never will. If I want to beat around the bush with every conversation I initiate, I'd run for public office. That much makes sense.

 

[nowwhat]

An old friend who makes tshirts for a living actually made a 2 shirt run just for me:

"Never nice but always fair"

It was too close to home for my wife, who became very upset when I wore one home, instead of laughing like I expected.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Kind of funny that this morning this video showed up in my inbox from someone who thinks that the word "nice" is just used as a euphemism for "not rocking the boat."
[video]http://www.gettheguy.co.uk/blog/nice-guys-finish-last/?inf_contact_key=fbfa97d3c3cf6df0a12d73bcdc153a4e1 b140cb9cdc4a6d27f8fcf9424f366ef[/video]

 

[garnetflower13]

This happens to me all the time. I say something or ask a question and he gets all angry or self-defensive like I am accusing him of something. I am, however, merely asking a direct question and not insinuating anything.

Another example of this, is once my husband and I were sitting in the counselor's office (yes, we are seeing a counselor for these communication glitches) and I described the latest one. Upon several occasions, we had both forgotten to take something out of the freezer for supper. So I had come out to the kitchen one morning, and my husband asked me what we were having for supper that night. I, thinking about those other incidents of having to defrost something in a hurry, responded, "It would be nice if you took something out of the freezer sometime, since you are up before I am." Now I meant exactly that, nothing more. No insult or criticism was implied at all. But he got very upset and hurt and when I asked what was wrong, he said that he felt judged! WTF? I brought this incident up in counseling, and to my dismay, the counselor agreed with him that she would have felt very upset if someone said that to her. Now I felt ganged up on, even though I know that was not intended. I was frankly confused that this was taken as an insult when I hadn't meant it to be. I gave several examples of where similar words might be used, such as "It would be nice if you made some coffee. "It would be nice if you would pick up some milk at the store." So, why on earth was my gentle request about defrosting something for dinner taken as an insult?
:unsure:

 

[Loomis]

Another example of this, is once my husband and I were sitting in the counselor's office (yes, we are seeing a counselor for these communication glitches) and I described the latest one. Upon several occasions, we had both forgotten to take something out of the freezer for supper. So I had come out to the kitchen one morning, and my husband asked me what we were having for supper that night. I, thinking about those other incidents of having to defrost something in a hurry, responded, "It would be nice if you took something out of the freezer sometime, since you are up before I am." Now I meant exactly that, nothing more. No insult or criticism was implied at all. But he got very upset and hurt and when I asked what was wrong, he said that he felt judged! WTF? I brought this incident up in counseling, and to my dismay, the counselor agreed with him that she would have felt very upset if someone said that to her. Now I felt ganged up on, even though I know that was not intended. I was frankly confused that this was taken as an insult when I hadn't meant it to be. I gave several examples of where similar words might be used, such as "It would be nice if you made some coffee. "It would be nice if you would pick up some milk at the store." So, why on earth was my gentle request about defrosting something for dinner taken as an insult?
:unsure:

I recently looked at my evaluation that diagnosed me with ASD and reread advice the evaluator wrote: "expect to be misunderstood and expect to misunderstand other's behavior." This refreshed my memory and I hope I can always keep this advice in my mind because it is very freeing. It allows me to create emotional distance from unexpected behaviors and responses.

 

[Ereth]

Happens to me all the time as well. Neurotypicals assuming I am being deliberately condescending with some kind of agenda, when all I am doing is being direct- and to the point. So instead of simply answering to the point, they attack and insult me. As if I've violated their socialization protocols.

And they claim it is us being the ones with a communications deficit? I must be dense...because this is the sort of thing I don't get and probably never will. If I want to beat around the bush with every conversation I initiate, I'd run for public office. That much makes sense.

To be fair, directness may be seen by some people as a little unnerving. My father, who grew up in the South, still complains about how abrupt people here (Pennsylvania) seem to be in comparison. He likes to "shoot the breeze," as it were. For many, casual conversation before getting to the point is standard protocol. I doubt most of these folks take it personally if we don't understand or employ small talk---it's just what they're used to.

I know this type of thing is frustrating---trust me, I don't really do well in casual conversations either---but no matter what you've endured, it's hardly an "us versus them" issue. Please try to remember that, everyone.

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

Thanks for your support everyone. I think I was having a pity party, just sometimes I find my husband unsympathetic to my circumstances. He, and he admits this, has high expectations of people. ....... I have MS and am an aspie, but he finds these things excuses to not try to be better and get better.

Wow! If he isn't perfect (and I'm sure he isn't) then he is obviously lazy and needs to improve. I hope his good points greatly outweigh his bad ones. Does he consider himself stuck with you and resent it? Has he discussed his opinion of MS and AS with a therapist?

 

[Ste11aeres]

I agree with this! My husband who is much more NT than Aspie, has inadvertently hurt me this way. It took him a long time to understand that my customary facial expression is one of intense concentration, and not anger or some other emotion. And he is learning to not read things into anything that I say, because it will be incorrect. For example, if I say "Are you going to leave that coat on that chair?" He will assume that I have an objection of some kind, no matter how many times I have said that if I have an objection he will most certainly hear about it! In the example I gave, it could have been that I was going to place my coat on that same chair and was concerned if there would be enough room for both coats.

I've recently realized that my best friend (probably Aspie) and i are much more direct with each other than most people would be.
This afternoon:
Me "Are you annoyed with me for calling three times?" (he was at work, that was why it could have been annoying)
Him "A little bit."


Also, we just say directly if we have to end the conversation.
Him "I have to go now."
Me "I didn't make you uncomfortable, did I? You don't have to go because of that do you?"
Him "Oh, no. Oh no."

 

[garnetflower13]

I've recently realized that my best friend (probably Aspie) and i are much more direct with each other than most people would be.
This afternoon:
Me "Are you annoyed with me for calling three times?" (he was at work, that was why it could have been annoying)
Him "A little bit."


Also, we just say directly if we have to end the conversation.
Him "I have to go now."
Me "I didn't make you uncomfortable, did I? You don't have to go because of that do you?"
Him "Oh, no. Oh no."

That is a perfect example of what I want with my husband! I would like to say, It would be nice if you remembered to take something out of the freezer for supper. And to have him respond, Are you upset with me because I haven't done this? Then I could go, No, I'm not. Just a reminder is all. That would be so lovely!

 

[Judge]

To be fair, directness may be seen by some people as a little unnerving. My father, who grew up in the South, still complains about how abrupt people here (Pennsylvania) seem to be in comparison. He likes to "shoot the breeze," as it were. For many, casual conversation before getting to the point is standard protocol. I doubt most of these folks take it personally if we don't understand or employ small talk---it's just what they're used to.

I know this type of thing is frustrating---trust me, I don't really do well in casual conversations either---but no matter what you've endured, it's hardly an "us versus them" issue. Please try to remember that, everyone.

It isn't an "us versus them" issue. Quite the opposite. It shouldn't matter whether one is Aspie, Neurotypical, Northerner or Southerner.

However one communicates, being direct shouldn't constitute any kind of perceived social faux-pas any more than someone initiating small talk as a prelude to discussing something of importance. It shouldn't be a case of abiding by one set of rules or another IMO.

If you can't get past how one says something, then whatever is actually trying to be communicated may well get lost in the process.

 

[Biblio-Love]

Wow! If he isn't perfect (and I'm sure he isn't) then he is obviously lazy and needs to improve. I hope his good points greatly outweigh his bad ones. Does he consider himself stuck with you and resent it? Has he discussed his opinion of MS and AS with a therapist?

He doesn't believe in therapy, at least when it comes to him. He is a good man, overall. We have our difficulties, as all people do. We are both "stuck" with each other and continue to try to make our marriage work. I don't think either of us resents the other. We made a promise through good times and bad, after all. We both have said things we should not have at times. Or done things we should not have. Forgive and move on...

 

[Ereth]

Judge:

Certain ways of conversing are part of different cultures around the world. I doubt anyone's going to be extremely offended if one doesn't know any better, but unfortunately, these guidelines aren't going to go away, and we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought they don't matter. (I could launch into an entire discussion about ethnocentrism, but that's not what this thread is for---maybe another time.) They have been, and will continue to be, modified in some degree, but tact is a valuable thing that shouldn't be left behind in favor of total directness. In other words, be direct or indirect as the situation dictates.

 

[Judge]

Judge:

Certain ways of conversing are part of different cultures around the world. I doubt anyone's going to be extremely offended if one doesn't know any better, but unfortunately, these guidelines aren't going to go away, and we'd be fooling ourselves if we thought they don't matter. (I could launch into an entire discussion about ethnocentrism, but that's not what this thread is for---maybe another time.) They have been, and will continue to be, modified in some degree, but tact is a valuable thing that shouldn't be left behind in favor of total directness. In other words, be direct or indirect as the situation dictates.

I was never suggesting being tactless in communicating. One can be direct and still be tactful as well. They don't have to be mutually exclusive of one another.

We may have to continue navigating rough waters of a Neurotypical world, but that doesn't mean we should blithely accept being water-boarded in the process simply because a majority can't see past their own social conventions. Perhaps in another thirty years of this your perspective might change. Otherwise we agree to disagree on that point.

 

[Ereth]

"Waterboarded?" I think using that term is a bit much, no matter how difficult socializing might be if we don't understand the nuances of certain interactions.

Again, I don't see the need to divide us into "neurotypical" and "autistic" camps. I may be a good deal younger than you, but I've had my share of bad treatment too. But nothing will ever convince me that we need to use such labels. We're all human beings. Acting like people who don't have autism are the enemy isn't going to solve any problems.

 

[Judge]

"Waterboarded?" I think using that term is a bit much, no matter how difficult socializing might be if we don't understand the nuances of certain interactions.

Again, I don't see the need to divide us into "neurotypical" and "autistic" camps. I may be a good deal younger than you, but I've had my share of bad treatment too. But nothing will ever convince me that we need to use such labels. We're all human beings. Acting like people who don't have autism are the enemy isn't going to solve any problems.

There is no need to divide anyone into any "camp" as you put it. You keep misconstruing what I've posted. It's that no one (whomever they may be) should have to be subject to a specific social protocol of others simply because they constitute a social majority. You seem to imply we must accept that. I couldn't disagree more.

There's always room for society to deal with multiple social protocols- not just a single dominant one. Our society is living proof of such a dynamic. Our entire country is as for that matter.

Yes- give yourself another 30 years or more of this...you may come to feel "waterboarded".

 

[Ereth]

You say I'm misunderstanding what you posted, and yet you're the one constantly saying "Neurotypicals do X" and "Aspies do Y." Explain that.

And in no way have I said that there's only room for one social protocol:

In other words, be direct or indirect as the situation dictates.

I've made my point and am finished here. If anyone cares to discuss this further with me, please do so via PM. Clearly I've wasted everyone's time.