NRA Want to register mentally ill?

[Tarragon]

Sorry folks, but here in the uk we are not allowed to walk around with guns. Guess what? We don't have a gun problem!

It's not rocket science!

What we do have, is insecure morons walking round thinking they are tough because they have a pet dog with a "vicious" reputation (often earned through the actions of the owners not the dogs). And this "culture" (in the same way slimy stuff under a rock is known as a culture) has resulted in increase of the appalling underground activity of dog fighting.

So, in other words it is people acting dumb that results in misuse. They act dumb because they are insecure. This results in unbelievable suffered to animals. If we introduced guns to mainstream society, it is these very same morons who would arm themselves to the teeth to feel "protected".

Am I the only one seeing the stupidity of all this?!

It looks from this side of the Atlantic that USA has allowed itself to be taken over by this stupid fear of being "weak" against an imaginary threat. And so, it now has people walking round carrying guns.

I am really glad I do not live in America, which seems to be governed by its own fear. It is bad enough in the UK with this dog fighting culture which needs eradicating. People are stupid, no matter where they come from. Everyone is as bad as everyone else. Guns do not solve problems. Education does.

 

[Ereth]

Wow. This thread is really old, but since it's been revived, I guess it's okay for me to comment on it.

Dogfighting isn't a problem unique to the UK. (It's also a problem here in Yankeeland, for example.) But at least your country isn't in love with firearms . . .

 

[Tarragon]

It is one of the more ridiculous aspects of history that USA is riddled with gun culture. Land of the free? Oh, how we laughed!

 

[Ereth]

Well, there's no need to mock the country for its problems and hypocrisy. Many of us are well aware of those things. You may scoff and laugh, but people are dying here.

 

[Brent]

It is one of the more ridiculous aspects of history that USA is riddled with gun culture. Land of the free? Oh, how we laughed!

Really? Is it appropriate to be snide and condescending to get your point across? Its posts such as these that prevent discussions like this from staying open. For the record, our history and respect for gun rights are why we don't care when some one in the royal family gets pregnant.

 

[Ereth]

To be fair, Brent, you've just done the same thing in your response to Tarragon. But let's not allow this to derail the thread, hmm?

 

[Tarragon]

Yup, its very very easy to do this. I just wonder how people growing up in America justify guns being everywhere. It doesn't make any sense to me, and probably most people everywhere.

As for NRA registering mentally ill people, sure. Except people can develop mental illnesses at any point in their lives, and we all know how that pans out. So, its not the solution. Getting rid of guns is.


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[Ereth]

Guns have proliferated here because of what is called the Second Amendment to our Constitution. I'm not saying I agree with my country's policies on guns---far from it. But our citizens' right to bear arms is the major reason.

 

[Brent]

To be fair, Brent, you've just done the same thing in your response to Tarragon. But let's not allow this to derail the thread, hmm?

If it came across that way then sorry. Our separation from British is one of the many reasons we stand by our gun rights.

Yup, its very very easy to do this. I just wonder how people growing up in America justify guns being everywhere. It doesn't make any sense to me, and probably most people everywhere.

As for NRA registering mentally ill people, sure. Except people can develop mental illnesses at any point in their lives, and we all know how that pans out. So, its not the solution. Getting rid of guns is.


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Our gun violence, which is on the decline and has been, is more related to drug laws than gun laws.

 

[Tarragon]

Yes, it's a piece of stupidity that costs countless lives. Here in the UK, we used to walk around with bows and arrows, and there was even a law that let people shoot at musicians in the street who were bad players (honestly!!)

My point is, that times change and USA seems to think they can still play cowboys and Indians (though not many of them want to be the Indians for some reason!!)

Silly isn't it?

Oh, and as for "separation from the British" business - how did that work out? Want to compare civilisations?? Maybe even gun crime rates? National Health service? Cultural background? Heritage? I could go on, but children do get upset when their toys are taken away from them!

 

[Brent]

Yes, it's a piece of stupidity that costs countless lives. Here in the UK, we used to walk around with bows and arrows, and there was even a law that let people shoot at musicians in the street who were bad players (honestly!!)

My point is, that times change and USA seems to think they can still play cowboys and Indians (though not many of them want to be the Indians for some reason!!)

Silly isn't it?

Your inability to have an adult conversation about this without mocking others is telling.

 

[Tarragon]

me? Mocking? Not really, just trying to describe how the rest of the world views a nuclear power who has an armed population high on drugs...

My view is that everyone is capable of stupidity, arming them isn't going to help the situation.

 

[Ereth]

The issue really isn't as simple as you're making it out to be, Tarragon. It's true that if we weren't allowed to have firearms a la the UK, there would be fewer shootings. But while there are plenty of illegal gun sales and violent events that occur, there are rational gun owners to account for, too.

Brent: It's really not about our country's drug policies---though those constitute another problem which I will not address here. In many states our gun laws are weak and have loopholes which criminals exploit. What we need to do to address gun violence is to expand background checks, limit civilian ownership of military-style assault weapons, and better address the mental health issues that our citizens face.

 

[Tarragon]

Yep, great advert for the American way of life....

NRA members should be first on their own list....

 

[Brent]

me? Mocking? Not really, just trying to describe how the rest of the world views a nuclear power who has an armed population high on drugs...

My view is that everyone is capable of stupidity, arming them isn't going to help the situation.

Yea, with that said, have a nice day. I can't discuss issues with someone hell bent on degrading an entire population based on exaggerations.

Deaths related to firearms in this country is at the lowest percentage since the peak in the late 90's. Ignore the facts if you wish and simply continue to sit high on that pedestal of yours.

 

[Brent]

The issue really isn't as simple as you're making it out to be, Tarragon. It's true that if we weren't allowed to have firearms a la the UK, there would be fewer shootings. But while there are plenty of illegal gun sales and violent events that occur, there are rational gun owners to account for, too.

Brent: It's really not about our country's drug policies---though those constitute another problem which I will not address here. In many states our gun laws are weak and have loopholes which criminals exploit. What we need to do to address gun violence is to expand background checks, limit civilian ownership of military-style assault weapons, and better address the mental health issues that our citizens face.

I agree with that last one. The other two do nothing to prevent gun violence. Those laws already exist in states with the highest gun violence. Chicago, Washington D.C., Los Angeles and Baltimore have some of the toughest gun laws this country has seen despite having the highest homicide rates in this country.

Those cities make it harder, if not impossible for citizens to protect themselves, leaving only criminals with access to firearms.

And with that, I am done.

 

[Tarragon]

I am not trying to wind anyone up at all, I merely want to point out that the whole situation is completely batsh@t insane to anyone looking at this scenario from the outside.

Ok, how about this?

Gun violence within America probably kills more Americans than global terrorism does. So, to make the army cost effective, how about treating American Gun Culture as an act of terrorism? After all, what could be more scary to an American Citizen than the prospect of being shot at any point in their daily lives?

So, expand that little prison America keeps for suspected terrorists and send anyone suspected of gun violence (or the thought of it) there indefinitely without charge.

Then, station the US army within all major cities in the US to ferret out anyone with a fetish for gun ownership (having made all gun ownership illegal throughout America). Of course, good citizens can report suspected gun ownership/idealisation to the authorities who will then conduct spot checks with the full backup of the US army (fully armed and prepared to use lethal force if necessary).

If the army suspects gangs of stockpiling weapons, then they can be authorised to conduct remote drone attacks on suspected buildings. Collateral damage is justified in the course of removing the threat to innocent American civilians. Any accidental loss of life is "acceptable" considering the stakes to Americans as a whole. Admitedly it is American citizens rather than foreigners who might get hurt, but they should accept this sacrifice for the good of the country.

Keep this up for about ten years, and then see if America has a culture of gun idealisation.




See? The whole scenario where Americans have to discuss whether they should be allowed to keep guns is, completely, crazy!!

And, actually, if America (or indeed any country) wanted to clean up its streets from drugs and violence, then acting this out (which has been justified to everyone else around the world in the context of terrorism) surely would work?!!

My point isn't sarcasm, it's just that people are crazy, and shouldn't be given any form of access to a machine which is designed to punch lumps of metal into other people just to make them feel safe. Any form of justification that allows normal people access to these machines is insanity. Armies have access to weapons, and are trained to obey orders which on the whole keeps things in check. Civilians are not.


I often wonder in an age where terrorism has made surveillance go into overdrive, how come drugs are still moved around the globe when bombs are not. Surely drug barons can't be as well organised as terrorists? Makes you wonder....

No offence intended, merely an attempt to make sense of the world of really crazy people!


(edit: It did not take me long at all to google this, and come up with this simple fact. For goodness sake, just get rid of guns full stop, no matter what it takes!
Toddlers Killed More Americans Than Terrorists Did This Year

 

[Ereth]

I agree with that last one. The other two do nothing to prevent gun violence. Those laws already exist in states with the highest gun violence. Chicago, Washington D.C., Los Angeles and Baltimore have some of the toughest gun laws this country has seen despite having the highest homicide rates in this country.

Those cities make it harder, if not impossible for citizens to protect themselves, leaving only criminals with access to firearms.

And with that, I am done.

I respect your difference in opinion, though I confess I don't understand it. Who needs an assault rifle outside of the military? Nobody. And expanded background checks would save lives. In my internship work I have encountered numerous studies and an abundance of data that back what I'm saying. We can't address the issue from only one point---we must use a multifaceted approach.

Some reading for interested parties (I will inevitably be called biased, I am sure, but I've already been called a terrorist by somebody disagreeing with the organization for which I work, so whatever):

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/04/opinion/nocera-the-gun-report-1-year-later.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

A killer for gun control - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

How the violent mentally ill can buy guns - CNN.com

Newtown: One Year After | Mother Jones

Editorial: Gun research shows which behaviors can put others at risk - Lebanon Daily News

The Pugilistic Double Standard of the Pro-Gun Movement | Josh Horwitz

Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer - Evan DeFilippis - The Atlantic

 

[Archer36]

In Canada, we don't have much guns, excepted for hunting. The laws are fairly strict and the course is mandatory. I rarely read in the newspaper that a kid killed someone by accident. So its good. I'm in favor of severe gun control and legislation.

That said, its not like that in every country. Obviously USA is totally different and I don't think they should be judged because they have a different culture. I had friends in USA that were having guns for self-defense. Even if statistically speaking it doesn't make any sense, they really do believe from the bottom of their heart that its gonna make them safer. So that belief has to be respected. They choose to have guns, they also choose to be responsible too. I don't fully understand Americans all the time, but what I know is that they are very vocal. ... They are allowed to speak up loudly all the time ... so you have those pro-guns groups, and those anti-gun groups ... they argue with each others and generally find a balance reflecting what their society is and wants. So I don't judge Americans ... They are good neighbors generally ... They do really well about some things and not so well about other things... that's all ...

In all societies, education, prevention and healthy democratic debates are always a good thing. Judging, hate and being close minded about other culture is never a good thing. Societies don't change really fast ... there is no way to speed things up without making things worse.

 

[Ereth]

I'm fine with people who want to own a gun for self-defense, provided they're not just using self-defense as an excuse to kill. But the firearm ought to be locked away and stored unloaded so no one gets hurt when it's not in use.