NRA Want to register mentally ill?

[Archer36]

I'm fine with people who want to own a gun for self-defense, provided they're not just using self-defense as an excuse to kill. But the firearm ought to be locked away and stored unloaded so no one gets hurt when it's not in use.

Yep ... this is why i mentioned "education and prevention" ... to me its much more important than trying to prevent people from getting guns. Its a little bit like cars ... they kill tons of people every day ... we don't want them to take away the cars ... but we do expect them to educate people and do some prevention and make them safer so we don't kill each others while ridding them.

 

[Brent]

If you can't reply to this thread and keep your emotions in check then step away.

The moderators are already wanting discussions like these removed because of that very reason and using terms like batshit insane and sarcasm in each and every post you make in here is only serving to inflame the discussion and not improve it.

These type of discussions require this and so far since this thread was revived it has not seen it. This is the last warning.

 

[King_Oni]

I won't get into too much of this debate but I can totally understand both sides here.

A few things come to mind though;
- If we do background checks. What do we check? Mental illness? Criminal record? Are those people not allowed to defend themselves?
- Even if you'd change the constitution, there are too many guns around. Changing it and making it illegal to sell them for example does not make it so that people will relinquish their guns. You'd have to search every house at the same time and take away everyones gun at the same time otherwise there'll still be too many guns around. It's highly impractical. And with that, I think the gun control problem is way, way overdue to get solved in the US. Just too many guns around.

I don't know a lot about gun laws, but does the law say anything about actually shooting someone and as a result killing him/her? I'd say it's more common sense to incapacitate someone. But then again, I look at it from the perspective law enforcement deals with in my country. Cops have guns, but rarely kill someone but aim to incapacitate. Though, gun violence isn't as big here. I can't recall any serious "stand-offs" between police and criminals with guns in the past few years over here.

I'm fine with people who want to own a gun for self-defense, provided they're not just using self-defense as an excuse to kill. But the firearm ought to be locked away and stored unloaded so no one gets hurt when it's not in use.

To play the devils advocate here;

If it's used for self-defense and most likely self-defense in home, when is it "in use"... I'm inclined to say it should be ready to defend 24/7. Since your safety at home can be in jeopardy around the clock.

 

[Ereth]

If you can't reply to this thread and keep your emotions in check then step away.

The moderators are already wanting discussions like these removed because of that very reason and using terms like batshit insane and sarcasm in each and every post you make in here is only serving to inflame the discussion and not improve it.

These type of discussions require this and so far since this thread was revived it has not seen it. This is the last warning.

To whom is this directed? I've done nothing inflammatory here, accidentally or otherwise.

A few things come to mind though:
- If we do background checks. What do we check? Mental illness? Criminal record? Are those people not allowed to defend themselves?

A criminal record is one, yes. Mental illness isn't a problem unless the person in question is adjudicated, in court, as dangerously mentally ill (that is, likely to harm themselves or others).

As much as I wish it would be rewritten for clarity and to include the threat posed by modern firearms, there's virtually no way the Second Amendment will be repealed or otherwise altered---at least not directly. This is why I advocate for stricter gun regulations. Firearms need to be used responsibly by every

To play the devil's advocate here:

If it's used for self-defense and most likely self-defense in home, when is it "in use"... I'm inclined to say it should be ready to defend 24/7. Since your safety at home can be in jeopardy around the clock.

I'd rather risk danger from a (rare, at least in my area) intruder than have a loaded weapon easily accessible to untrained adults and children.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I'd rather risk danger from a (rare, at least in my area) intruder than have a loaded weapon easily accessible to untrained adults and children.

It's not clear who Brent's post was directed at...and it may have been in response to posts which are now deleted.


It seems to me that different people are in different positions. Some people might be in neighborhoods where break-ins are very very common, might have had personal experiences of being attacked, and might also not have kids around. Such a person would feel one way about the issue.
Someone else in a safe neighborhood, who hasn't been the victim of attacks (I'm in this category, by the way) might feel differently.

Each side can come up with lots of true stories of
1. People who were tragically killed/harmed by a gun, or
2. People who were harmed and could have been saved by a gun.

As is the case for many legal issues, what helps some people, might harm others. In this as in regards to many issues, there is not one perfect solution that helps everyone; the important thing often is to try to figure out which is the arrangement that helps the most people and injures the least possible.

 

[Ereth]

Believe me, I understand that people have had different experiences and that there likely isn't a solution that will appeal to everyone. But the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that the safest place to raise children is in a home without guns. If guns are present in the home, they should be stored safely: locked away and separate from the ammo.

I can't tell you how many articles I've read about young children who were injured or killed because they were playing with a loaded gun that they found under a bed, or in an unlocked cabinet. It's not an issue isolated to a specific area of the country. In fact, many children who end up in the ER for gunshot wounds receive the injuries from someone else in the house---a family member or family friend.

Even if I did feel the need to own a gun, for whatever reason, I wouldn't be irresponsible about its storage. Many otherwise responsible gun owners think that if they tell their kids not to touch a gun, the kids will listen, but the data has shown again and again that the temptation is just too strong.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Keeping a loaded gun within reach of children is undeniably (and tragically) stupid. A gun owner who thinks a verbal command is sufficient is neither a responsible gun owner nor a responsible parent.

I would also like to add, that while self-defense is legitimate necessary, it doesn't necessarily have to involve a gun. Self Defense could mean avoiding stupid actions that would have brought you into danger. Self defense could mean walking away from a potential fight, rather than using words or actions that could have escalated the conflict.
Self defense can mean having a cell phone handy in order to call the police. (The police don't even have to arrive in time. I've found that pulling a cellphone out of my purse was itself enough to deter a very scary guy.)

Hopefully, ideally, self defense shouldn't reach the point of having to try to physically injure the other person. (if it reaches that point, fists teeth and nails might prove ineffective, especially for us (sorry to say this) physically weaker women.)

 

[Tarragon]

Errr, how can a locked firearm in a cupboard, unloaded, be something that can be used for self defence?

 

[Ereth]

I admit that it's not ideal if one's house is broken into and one has to retrieve and load a gun from a locked cabinet. Certainly if somebody lives alone he or she is free to do anything with the gun. But if there are kids in or around the house, it's entirely necessary to keep firearms under lock and key.