NT and Aspie Communication

[umbrellabeach]

Also (Umbrellabeach), you may want to work on the volume of your voice.

Sometimes I yell and people still ignore me...
I wonder sometimes why everyone else, including my family, has a really loud and grating voice (it's like microphone feedback when they yell), and I have a naturally soft one, apparently even if I talk more loudly. This might be a silly question, but is it possible that growing up talking less than other people, as I did, can lead to this? Or am I just made this way? I've also noticed that I get a sore throat & jaw if I talk for a long time, like last month when I hung out with a couple of friends at my brother's graduation party, and it takes a while for it to go away even if I drink a lot of water. Is that normal for people who aren't used to talking a lot?

 

[Judge]

Sometimes I yell and people still ignore me...
I wonder sometimes why everyone else, including my family, has a really loud and grating voice (it's like microphone feedback when they yell), and I have a naturally soft one, apparently even if I talk more loudly. This might be a silly question, but is it possible that growing up talking less than other people, as I did, can lead to this? Or am I just made this way? I've also noticed that I get a sore throat & jaw if I talk for a long time, like last month when I hung out with a couple of friends at my brother's graduation party, and it takes a while for it to go away even if I drink a lot of water. Is that normal for people who aren't used to talking a lot?

It's not a silly question. My understanding is that speaking unnecessarily loudly is just another ASD trait one may or may not have. And some traits can be pronounced at birth while others come to the surface later.

In my case I have a soft, monotone voice where people constantly tell me to speak up. Yet I don't routinely talk loudly. It probably doesn't help to have a non-local accent that goes in and out either. LOL, I'd probably lose my voice in the process of speaking really loudly because of living in relative social isolation. My voice just doesn't get much exercise.

As far as people not responding, yeah...that's somewhat of a mystery. But I've posted before what I suspect.

 

[KassieMac]

Sometimes I yell and people still ignore me...
I wonder sometimes why everyone else, including my family, has a really loud and grating voice (it's like microphone feedback when they yell), and I have a naturally soft one, apparently even if I talk more loudly. This might be a silly question, but is it possible that growing up talking less than other people, as I did, can lead to this? Or am I just made this way?

I've spent most of my life wondering and asking why people always ignore me & talk over me (then repeat what I said & take credit for my ideas). No one has ever been able to answer me, though most fell so deep into vehement denial and hostile defensiveness that they wouldn't even try. I've also been very careful to observe the behaviors of those who aren't ignored or talked over, and I've tried emulating their behavior. I've tried varying my tone of voice and inflection in every way possible, and I've tried the simplistic advice of people who don't understand because it never happens to them. Nothing has ever worked, and I now know the reason why: it's because we're Aspie. There's nothing that we can do to change the behavior of others who don't (and won't) understand us.

 

[Tourist]

I've spent most of my life wondering and asking why people always ignore me & talk over me (then repeat what I said & take credit for my ideas). No one has ever been able to answer me, though most fell so deep into vehement denial and hostile defensiveness that they wouldn't even try. I've also been very careful to observe the behaviors of those who aren't ignored or talked over, and I've tried emulating their behavior. I've tried varying my tone of voice and inflection in every way possible, and I've tried the simplistic advice of people who don't understand because it never happens to them. Nothing has ever worked, and I now know the reason why: it's because we're Aspie. There's nothing that we can do to change the behavior of others who don't (and won't) understand us.

Happened today at work to me. Said the guy that's supposed to overlook me (I'm temp) that I have nothing to do, so can I help with something to another guy? He then said, no you can't and some random gibberish I didn't understand, then he repeated the same thing I did.
Is it bullying? Gaslighting? Why am I treated like that?

Edit: I'm just venting, since it's frustrating.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Happened today at work to me. Said the guy that's supposed to overlook me (I'm temp) that I have nothing to do, so can I help with something to another guy? He then said, no you can't and some random gibberish I didn't understand, then he repeated the same thing I did.
Is it bullying? Gaslighting? Why am I treated like that?

Edit: I'm just venting, since it's frustrating.

Probably he was thinking as he talked, changing his mind as he talked, and not communicating well.

 

[Tourist]

Probably he was thinking as he talked, changing his mind as he talked, and not communicating well.

He didn't listen to what I said, dismissed it, and then said exactly same thing. Why are you trying to justify him?

 

[Tourist]

Great double combo:
Signs That You’ve Been Abused by a Narcissist | After Narcissistic Abuse

The Effects of Gaslighting on Victims of Narcissistic Abuse

 

[Judge]

Happened today at work to me. Said the guy that's supposed to overlook me (I'm temp) that I have nothing to do, so can I help with something to another guy? He then said, no you can't and some random gibberish I didn't understand, then he repeated the same thing I did.
Is it bullying? Gaslighting? Why am I treated like that?

Edit: I'm just venting, since it's frustrating.

Could that have reflected employee indifference/prejudice towards short-term temp workers?

I had to deal with similar prejudice by a select few people when working as an independent contractor in Silicon Valley. Technically my job was permanent, but I was never an employee. No benefits, but also no vested involvement in the internal workings of the corporation. All I needed to do was my job. Some people didn't like that. I was paid very well so I took it all in stride.

 

[KassieMac]

Great double combo:
Signs That You’ve Been Abused by a Narcissist | After Narcissistic Abuse

The Effects of Gaslighting on Victims of Narcissistic Abuse

Hi Tourist,

Thank you so much for posting those links. Very interesting reads. It makes me wonder if Aspies are more likely to be targeted for gaslighting ... something I'd like to research more. If you have any more information, please share it with us ... either in a different thread or private conversation if you prefer.

Thanks,
Kassie

 

[umbrellabeach]

I've spent most of my life wondering and asking why people always ignore me & talk over me (then repeat what I said & take credit for my ideas). No one has ever been able to answer me, though most fell so deep into vehement denial and hostile defensiveness that they wouldn't even try. I've also been very careful to observe the behaviors of those who aren't ignored or talked over, and I've tried emulating their behavior. I've tried varying my tone of voice and inflection in every way possible, and I've tried the simplistic advice of people who don't understand because it never happens to them. Nothing has ever worked, and I now know the reason why: it's because we're Aspie. There's nothing that we can do to change the behavior of others who don't (and won't) understand us.

Yeah, I've gotten denial too. This has just made me remember something that I'm not sure I've ever told on this board. One Wednesday night right after youth group, when I was 16, I complained to the youth leader that no one listened to me, that they all talked over me and ignored me. (Once, I'd started answering a question, then another kid had started talking while I was talking, and everyone listened to him instead.) I ended up having to stay an extra 10-15 minutes while the youth leader lectured me about how they couldn't listen to me because they were "only human", and that I "needed to stop holding people to standards" (those were her exact words). I - and my whole family - later realized that she was a really messed up, narcissistic person, but her abuse still hurt.
I've suspected the same reason: just being Aspie. I don't tell most people that I'm one, but they seem to subconsciously detect that I'm different, and thus subconsciously ignore me. Maybe that's also a reason why they deny it; they're not even aware of it. I'm convinced that they filter me out as background noise, which is subconscious for NTs.

 

[KassieMac]

Yeah, I've gotten denial too. This has just made me remember something that I'm not sure I've ever told on this board. One Wednesday night right after youth group, when I was 16, I complained to the youth leader that no one listened to me, that they all talked over me and ignored me. (Once, I'd started answering a question, then another kid had started talking while I was talking, and everyone listened to him instead.) I ended up having to stay an extra 10-15 minutes while the youth leader lectured me about how they couldn't listen to me because they were "only human", and that I "needed to stop holding people to standards" (those were her exact words). I - and my whole family - later realized that she was a really messed up, narcissistic person, but her abuse still hurt.
I've suspected the same reason: just being Aspie. I don't tell most people that I'm one, but they seem to subconsciously detect that I'm different, and thus subconsciously ignore me. Maybe that's also a reason why they deny it; they're not even aware of it. I'm convinced that they filter me out as background noise, which is subconscious for NTs.

I agree … it doesn't matter whether we have the diagnosis or not, or whether the person knows about it … I'm certain we've been treated this way since long before Aspergers had a name or definition. I can tell you personally I've experienced it all my life, which goes back long before it was in the DSM.

And I agree that it's subconscious. A few times I've tried to make people aware of their actions (hoping they'd be insightful enough to do some self-examination) but it's always been met with denial, anger, and hostility. I wonder, do you think it hurts to be so clueless about one's own actions and internal motivations? I feel like it must, but who knows.

 

[Ste11aeres]

He didn't listen to what I said, dismissed it, and then said exactly same thing. Why are you trying to justify him?

I wasn't trying to justify him. Didn't mean it to sound like I was, sorry. Yes, you're right that he was acting dismissively toward what you had said, and toward you.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Yeah, I've gotten denial too. This has just made me remember something that I'm not sure I've ever told on this board. One Wednesday night right after youth group, when I was 16, I complained to the youth leader that no one listened to me, that they all talked over me and ignored me. (Once, I'd started answering a question, then another kid had started talking while I was talking, and everyone listened to him instead.) I ended up having to stay an extra 10-15 minutes while the youth leader lectured me about how they couldn't listen to me because they were "only human", and that I "needed to stop holding people to standards"

!!!!!
some persons can be amazing in their
narcissism.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I have an Aspie question.

Do Aspie's ever apologize or are apologies seen as illogical?

 

[KassieMac]

Absolutely! Any time I've actually done or said something wrong, I'm happy to apologize. I find it illogical, however, to be expected to apologize for something that was perceived by another, due to their own lack of understanding or incorrect assumptions.

I am at a disadvantage, though, as I've had precious few examples to follow. In my experience, with the NTs I've personally interacted with, I've never once received an apology ... not even in the face of irrefutable evidence. Maybe an NT could model the practice for us?

 

[wyverary]

Here's another thought on the matter (and sorry if it seems a bit of a non sequitur at this point in the conversation), which seems relevant:

It seems, here, we've been focusing on "NT v Aspie" quite a lot, but if you look at different groups and types of people who DO fall under our umbrella term "NT," there is a wide range of temperament, culture, personality, and so forth, and in my experience, these different "groups" can have quite a bit of trouble understanding and getting along with each other as well. It's my belief that there is as much variance within NT culture as there is variance between Aspies and "the NT population." Certain NT types definitely have issues with other NT types...I think we're making a rather broad generalization when we assume that all NT's are outgoing, extroverted, and can all intuitively connect with each other. That is just not the case.

I think this makes the issue rather more complicated, as not only do we have to understand NT's as a general group, but we have to acknowledge these differences among them and deal with each accordingly.

 

[KassieMac]

Here's another thought on the matter (and sorry if it seems a bit of a non sequitur at this point in the conversation), which seems relevant:

It seems, here, we've been focusing on "NT v Aspie" quite a lot, but if you look at different groups and types of people who DO fall under our umbrella term "NT," there is a wide range of temperament, culture, personality, and so forth, and in my experience, these different "groups" can have quite a bit of trouble understanding and getting along with each other as well. It's my belief that there is as much variance within NT culture as there is variance between Aspies and "the NT population." Certain NT types definitely have issues with other NT types...I think we're making a rather broad generalization when we assume that all NT's are outgoing, extroverted, and can all intuitively connect with each other. That is just not the case.

I think this makes the issue rather more complicated, as not only do we have to understand NT's as a general group, but we have to acknowledge these differences among them and deal with each accordingly.

What you say is true, however, that's the actual stated purpose of this thread. If we're not to focus on NT v Aspie, then why are threads that ask these very questions allowed/encouraged?

 

[wyverary]

What you say is true, however, that's the actual stated purpose of this thread. If we're not to focus on NT v Aspie, then why are threads that ask these very questions allowed/encouraged?

My point (which I probably didn't make clear enough) is that these variations among NT culture result in different ways they are able to communicate with other "groups," including us Aspies, and trying bring attention to the nuances that I have yet to see pop up in the conversation, which thus far has focused on broad generalization.

 

[King_Oni]

What you say is true, however, that's the actual stated purpose of this thread. If we're not to focus on NT v Aspie, then why are threads that ask these very questions allowed/encouraged?

Perhaps it's that the emphasis on "them vs. us" is becoming to prevalent now in quite a few topics. And it's becoming quite noticeable, that we're going down a route that looks more like picking sides rather than informative.

There's nothing wrong with acquiring information. Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that some people fail to be informative (which is why some threads have gone downhill up to either closing or open "warnings").

NT vs. AS isn't necessarily the problem as a topic, it's the fact that these invite to bashing, assumptions and unfounded statements. It's why members should be at least aware that generalizations can lead to conflict... and that's something we're not looking for on this forum. But as I said in another thread already "where there's people, there's conflict". If people could resolve their differences in a proper manner, I'd say this thread, as many others should be fine. However, in recent events that has proven to be difficult to some.

 

[King_Oni]

I have an Aspie question.

Do Aspie's ever apologize or are apologies seen as illogical?

Absolutely! Any time I've actually done or said something wrong, I'm happy to apologize. I find it illogical, however, to be expected to apologize for something that was perceived by another, due to their own lack of understanding or incorrect assumptions.

This. I don't mind offering an apology; and even less if I'm responsible for a misunderstanding. But apologies for the sake of what people deem as "proper manners" while I don't feel I did anything wrong or if the problem lies with someone else because I'm totally confident and sure that I'm not wrong, I'm not going to apologize.

I've had a few situations where people thought I was wrong and we had an argument. I never apologized though I just settled with the "let's agree to disagree" type of statement. I'm not all butthurt over it, as long as others don't keep going on about it and just leave it be as well.