"Original Sin"....Just Another term for our animal nature?

[Judge]

Ominous title and lyrics..written by a gifted artist who went on to commit suicide.

Great song though....about living and loving in an intolerant world.

 

[Shevek]

Ominous title and lyrics..written by a gifted artist who went on to commit suicide.

Great song though....about living and loving in an intolerant world.

I can only understand about 20% of the lyrics - average for pop music. Even Paul McCartney said that it was sometimes years before he understood what he'd written to get a rhyme, so the faint lyrics seldom matter.

 

[Judge]

I can only understand about 20% of the lyrics - average for pop music. Even Paul McCartney said that it was sometimes years before he understood what he'd written to get a rhyme, so the faint lyrics seldom matter.

A song of temptation and struggle. With a hope for tolerance.

https://oldtimemusic.com/the-meaning-behind-the-song-original-sin-by-inxs/

 

[Joshua the Writer]

No, original sin was very human, not animal. God gave Adam and Eve free will, and original sin was when they chose wrong. The specific sin in question was to eat from the tree of knowledge. I'm not sure what exactly that means, because it's hard to imagine existing without knowing anything. It could be that it was just knowledge of sin, and once you know you can do it, it becomes possible, and that possibility is the root of all of the errors. If you're ignorant of sin, then there's nothing to repent for, and it's possible that God just prevents you from doing it, and you're completely oblivious, since it's nothing you were aware of. When you know what it is, and you choose it anyway, that's you being your own God, and it's sin.

Studying "normal" human behavior has been an utter nightmare. The tree of knowledge can't be uneaten, but what a horror show this has been; the amount of lying and self-delusion. If you were weak, you would succumb to all manner of depravity knowing how they behave. I'll take a so-called pervasive developmental disorder if that's what it prevented me from developing into. I'd rather be like a child forever; I'm perfectly fine with it.

Why would be god be so afraid of mortals merely having knowledge and the desire to learn? It shows how weak he really is. Possibly one of the weakest compared to other mythologies. Let humanity have a glorious feast comprised of foods with the fruit of knowledge as the main ingredient of all meals. And also praise those deities who are strong enough to not be afraid of their subjects being intellegent.

 

[Levitat0r]

Why would be god be so afraid of mortals merely having knowledge and the desire to learn? It shows how weak he really is. Possibly one of the weakest compared to other mythologies. Let humanity have a glorious feast comprised of foods with the fruit of knowledge as the main ingredient of all meals. And also praise those deities who are strong enough to not be afraid of their subjects being intellegent.

As I said, it was the Tree of Knowledge, specifically of Good and Evil. What you are supposed to do is give yourself back to God, and he is the one who makes you innocent, even if it means making you incapable of remembering how to be wrong. Most people don't have enough humility to do that. To me, realizing that I have autism has been a tremendous help. I don't, and have never known how to belong to the same manner of lynch mob that crucified Jesus. I couldn't belong if I tried. I'm happy to be stupid that way, if it makes me more acceptable before God. I don't need that knowledge. I'm happy to be a child that way. You're told to be that way. It's possible that God made autistic people to set an example of what it is to be moldable, and humble.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

As I said, it was the Tree of Knowledge, specifically of Good and Evil. What you are supposed to do is give yourself back to God, and he is the one who makes you innocent, even if it means making you incapable of remembering how to be wrong. Most people don't have enough humility to do that. To me, realizing that I have autism has been a tremendous help. I don't, and have never known how to belong to the same manner of lynch mob that crucified Jesus. I couldn't belong if I tried. I'm happy to be stupid that way, if it makes me more acceptable before God. I don't need that knowledge. I'm happy to be a child that way. You're told to be that way. It's possible that God made autistic people to set an example of what it is to be moldable, and humble.

Trying to keep humanity ignorant of good and evil is the most evil. Humility may be good, but also knowing when to brag is also good. A god afraid of humans knowing good and evil is a weak god, not worth my respect and worship. On the other hand, a Deity that respects humanity's intuition of what is good and evil is a good Deity worthy of respect. One that is strong and worthy of being worshipped.

I care not for extreme humility, as I find appearing and acting confident and commanding even when I feel worthless and weak aids in both getting what I want as well as helping others way more than extreme humility. I show humility when necessary, but I never make an effort to even pretend to be humble at all times.

I do not accept your god as my creator.

Seeking knowledge is an innate desire that humans have. Trying to inhibit that desire is evil.

 

[Greening]

There is nothing humble, anyways, about trying to convince others that you speak on behalf on an almighty god. The contradictions of Christianity are endless that way. And how sad it must be to reduce one's life to a bible study. I am glad it is not me. If someeone feels so strong about these things there is always the option of becoming a monk, a life in silent contemplation, instead of trying to indoctrinate people over and over everywhere. It is so damn tiring.

 

[Levitat0r]

Trying to keep humanity ignorant of good and evil is the most evil. Humility may be good, but also knowing when to brag is also good. A god afraid of humans knowing good and evil is a weak god, not worth my respect and worship. On the other hand, a Deity that respects humanity's intuition of what is good and evil is a good Deity worthy of respect. One that is strong and worthy of being worshipped.

I care not for extreme humility, as I find appearing and acting confident and commanding even when I feel worthless and weak aids in both getting what I want as well as helping others way more than extreme humility. I show humility when necessary, but I never make an effort to even pretend to be humble at all times.

I do not accept your god as my creator.

Seeking knowledge is an innate desire that humans have. Trying to inhibit that desire is evil.

I think the problem is that you are examining the issue out of context. You are supposed to view things from the perspective of transitioning who you are from your own self over to God's direction. If you don't even have your foot in the door, then you will think you need to rely on yourself. If you are most of the way through the door already, then you have no qualms about handing things over to God.

God keeps things from you because they are bad for you. He's not afraid that you are going to overpower him. He also gives you your earthly life so that you can see what it's like to judge things for yourself. You can learn the hard way from pure experience, or take advice into account.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

There is nothing humble, anyways, about trying to convince others that you speak on behalf on an almighty god. The contradictions of Christianity are endless that way. And how sad it must be to reduce one's life to a bible study. I am glad it is not me. If someeone feels so strong about these things there is always the option of becoming a monk, a life in silent contemplation, instead of trying to indoctrinate people over and over everywhere. It is so damn tiring.

Pretty much the exact opposite of humble.

 

[Levitat0r]

There is nothing humble, anyways, about trying to convince others that you speak on behalf on an almighty god. The contradictions of Christianity are endless that way. And how sad it must be to reduce one's life to a bible study. I am glad it is not me. If someeone feels so strong about these things there is always the option of becoming a monk, a life in silent contemplation, instead of trying to indoctrinate people over and over everywhere. It is so damn tiring.

Nobody is trying to indoctrinate you. Last time, I was answering your questions, and this time you chose to participate in an obvious faith thread.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

I think the problem is that you are examining the issue out of context. You are supposed to view things from the perspective of transitioning who you are from your own self over to God's direction. If you don't even have your foot in the door, then you will think you need to rely on yourself. If you are most of the way through the door already, then you have no qualms about handing things over to God.

God keeps things from you because they are bad for you. He's not afraid that you are going to overpower him. He also gives you your earthly life so that you can see what it's like to judge things for yourself. You can learn the hard way from pure experience, or take advice into account.

Am I really examining the issue out of context, or am I actually observing the bigger picture and making conclusions from that in my own way? Your focus is too narrow. I do not believe for one bit that god keeps things from mortals because he sees it as "bad" for them. After all, tyrants and fascists have explained their lack of transparency with the exact same excuse. Like those tyrants and fascists, your god is afraid of his subjects having the knowledge that he doesn't want you to have, for it exposes his greatest weaknesses.

The most prideful of pagans are more humble than the most selfless Christian preachers.

 

[Levitat0r]

Am I really examining the issue out of context, or am I actually observing the bigger picture and making conclusions from that in my own way? Your focus is too narrow. I do not believe for one bit that god keeps things from mortals because he sees it as "bad" for them. After all, tyrants and fascists have explained their lack of transparency with the exact same excuse. Like those tyrants and fascists, your god is afraid of his subjects having the knowledge that he doesn't want you to have, for it exposes his greatest weaknesses.

The most prideful of pagans are more humble than the most selfless Christian preachers.

In fact, he didn't keep things from people. They chose, and he let them have their way so that they could learn. God didn't make it sting. He's letting people learn that bad choices sting inherently, but they are crucifiers, so of course it has to be God's fault.

 

[Greening]

Nobody is trying to indoctrinate you. Last time, I was answering your questions, and this time you chose to participate in an obvious faith thread.

"Answering your questions". Your approach says it all. Bye again.

 

[Levitat0r]

"Answering your questions". Your approach says it all. Bye again.

You're welcome to dislike the answers, but don't act like your participation is imposed on you. It's not.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

In fact, he didn't keep things from people. They chose, and he let them have their way so that they could learn. God didn't make it sting. He's letting people learn that bad choices sting inherently, but they are crucifiers, so of course it has to be God's fault.

He very much did try to keep things from adam and eve. For no good reason, either. Your god is evil. Very much a tyrant. Are you sure the crucifixion was not god's fault for his evils; commoners taking revenge against an evil tyrant? After all, since we have no proof the jesus was actually a good person, then it is entirely possible that he could have been some kind of abusive fringe cult leader.

"Do not eat from this tree that will grant you knowledge or else you will be punished" is very much keeping things from them. Any other explanation requires silly mental gymnastics.

 

[Levitat0r]

He very much did try to keep things from adam and eve. For no good reason, either. Your god is evil. Very much a tyrant. Are you sure the crucifixion was not god's fault for his evils; commoners taking revenge against an evil tyrant? After all, since we have no proof the jesus was actually a good person, then it is entirely possible that he could have been some kind of abusive fringe cult leader.

"Do not eat from this tree that will grant you knowledge or else you will be punished" is very much keeping things from them. Any other explanation requires silly mental gymnastics.

He told them not to do something, but he let them disobey, so, according to you he's an overbearing tyrant but he's very weak. Now all you have to do is perform one logical inversion on that statement, and you're there.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Sin is just a farcical invention of the corrupt to control others. Why else would a concept that keeps people obsessed about what'd happen to them after they die and subsequently avoid doing things they may enjoy because they were arbitrarily deemed "immoral" by some guy that lived and died 2,000 years ago? This idea keeps people from truly enjoying what matters most: the present moment, in the land of the living, of material reality. I do not want to worry about whatever the hell happens after I die. I do good things because I can, and not in order to chase after some vague dreams about a paradise after death. The christian god even thinks the lack of belief in him is evil! It shows their god is not as selfless and strong as they think he is. He is in fact selfish and weak willed, his only interest being in himself and himself alone, and even jesus, even if I may like some of his teachings, is an extension of this since god and jesus are one in the same.

 

[Magna]

"Do not eat from this tree that will grant you knowledge or else you will be punished" is very much keeping things from them. Any other explanation requires silly mental gymnastics.

Keeping humans ignorant to the point of punishment on one hand but requiring them regardless of their respective intellects to accept and believe extreme philosophical concepts that can't be proven by humans in order to avoid eternal punishment with no recourse.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

He told them not to do something, but he let them disobey, so, according to you he's an overbearing tyrant but he's very weak. Now all you have to do is perform one logical inversion on that statement, and you're there.

Behind every overbearing tyrant, is an even more overbearing weakness that they try their best to hide, and that weakness is just waiting for somebody who is clever enough to exploit it and dethrone them. It is all part of a tyrant's act.

I am somebody capable of finding and exploiting that weakness. I am a mortal who has defeated the one you claim to be your god.

 

[Greening]

Oh, I like to add one good thing about the god in Christianity, and that is, that he does not exist. Because if he did, the evidence for that would no doubt be overwhelming. It seems a bit peculiar that a so called "almighty god" would be that good at hiding.

Where is he? Nowhere.