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I used to sell engineering tools at shows. What you quickly learn is classic bike owners tend to be engineers while classic car owners are mechanics. Bikers are far, far more likely to have a lathe and milling machine. Sold quite a few of these to them over the years.

When a toolmaker (the engineer that makes tools for 'ordinary' engineers) restores a bike it will be mechanically and cosmetically perfect, better than it was when new. These are the people that often create specials. Out there are bikes that started life with a two cylinder engine but now have a four that uses original cylinders and heads with a new crankcase and crankshaft plus the other parts that need to be made.

There are also the dedicated/insane ones who will buy a frame and rebuilt it back to a whole bike. A chap I know did this with a v-twin Raleigh. Yes, the Raleigh that makes bicycles also used to make motorcycles. The one part he could not obtain was a clutch because it was also used on the Rolls-Royce of motorcycles, the Brough Superior. Anything that fits them commands a painful premium!
Should have said, my being what in my time and place would be called "a biker", which is something different from what I mostly see today, whom are motorcyclists, a different social group and culture (no criticism implied, just not the same thing).
And many bikers would revel in old (often British, but not necessarily) engineering, where the sparseness and simplicity of solution would be tempered by the pure engineering that went into them from the bottom up, instead of using technology to solve the design failings. These people would make their own parts by necessity, and often would have (while not having the resources to own themselves) access to machining tools (often they were factory workers, skilled in running lathes and milling machines of old, and similar, or friends of) and their innate (learnt through experience and apprenticeship) engineering ability.

For example (and I was never in that social group, or of the experience and ability to do this sort of maintenance stuff myself) of all the bikes I ever owned, the one that far and away I fell in love with, was a small air cooled v-twin, made by a moderately obscure Italian bike maker called Moto Morini. This thing was built like an old tractor - very agricultural in style. Very basic, very simple (the electrics were a longstanding joke among owners), yet ran like it was on rails. It was a relatively low powered 500cc engine, very basic compared to contemporary modern bikes, especially the Japanese competitors of the time (in the '90's), and yet in the right conditions (I lived and rode in central London much of the time), and there was little could beat it despite being maybe half as high again in capacity, and much higher energy output, I would regularly hammer them into the ground (metaphorically, I hasten to add!), because a dry clutch beats a wet clutch, especially when the high torque meant I was changing to second when they were changing to third, so losing power more than me on those changes, and mine was the size and weight of a typical Japanese 250, so had much better power to weight ratio, and better clearance in overtaking (usually with inches to spare as standard - running the white lines, dodging the keep left bollards, etc) and it's frame was so well designed despite it's simplicity, the thing out handled most other bikes it came up against.
This is with the caveat of special conditions - over about 65 mph on a clear road (clear equals the central white line was not blocked with other bikes! ;)) mine would start to run out of steam and be beaten with ease, on a motorway? Forget it. It was made for twisty mountain roads, not highways. But the pure simplicity and yet perfectly balanced engineering made it one that became almost a part of you, and the relation between yourself and the road surface was so tightly bound it was an incomparable experience, and riding it was just zen (no words for it). Lots of other bikes that excelled in some way or other, but never one to topple her place on my pedestal of sheer love!
Ah, nostalgia! So much better than the real thing ever was! :)
 
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@Boogs , the vast majority of engineers I know have only got manual machines. With CNC it is very time consuming to make or machine one-off parts. This is where manual machines work best. Though years ago there were factories full of capstan lathes (a type specifically made to do repetition work) virtually all have gone to the great scrapyard in the sky.

Even now many machines sit in scrap yards. Some get rescued but many more just rust to the point they are beyond repair. A mate got tipped off that a rare one was sitting in a not quite local yard. This one was a Hardinge HLVH; a highly sought after toolroom lathe. He paid peanuts for it and it now gets used nearly every day making parts for customers.

Regarding my signature it is intended to show that I am neutral on the banned subject of politics. I'm aware that atheist is normally a religious term. On this rather divisive subject I am also neutral in part because I like to have my own beliefs on the various aspects of the cosmos.

Regarding bikes I am not brand orientated. In the little collection Dad and I have built up are 13 bikes. The oldest from 1927 and the newest from 1962. Of these eight were originally registered in my home county of Oxfordshire (chosen because they were local machines). The rest are a little scattered hailing from Birmingham, London, Lancashire, Manchester and Nottingham.

The most recent two are both BSA's. One is a 1959 Superrocket that Dad owned 1973-1980. The chap he sold it too still had it when we visited him a few years ago and we asked for first refusal. Late last year he phoned to see if we still wanted it. The answer was yes; an Oxfordshire bike from new. He them mentions another he had, a 1961 BSA C15. Normally a 250cc brit bike would be ignored because they are unable to keep up with modern traffic but... it was a City of Oxford bike still with the original card logbook from new. If we hadn't bought it it's registration number wouldn't still be on it. We bought it to save it from this fate.

The history of the vehicle comes first. All the bikes have their original registration numbers and that ain't changing. The oldest in the collection is the only one of that make and model left under it's London registration mark. Dad bought that one in 1979.

To date the Superrocket is the only bike Dad once owned that we have found. Somewhere out there lurks a 1928 BSA 770cc v-twin that he had in the 70s. The DVLA say it still exists under its Buckingham registration number; a two letter two number reg number; extremely rare to ever see one of these on the original vehicle.
 
To date the Superrocket is the only bike Dad once owned that we have found. Somewhere out there lurks a 1928 BSA 770cc v-twin that he had in the 70s.

I have a picture of my dad with his first car, I have looked for that car for a long time. It's probably long gone but it would be amazing to find it.
 
When a toolmaker (the engineer that makes tools for 'ordinary' engineers) restores a bike it will be mechanically and cosmetically perfect,
Just a little heartbreaking disaster story for you. One of my friends as a teenager was an apprentice toolmaker, his father was a toolmaker and so was one of the older sons, so you can imagine how cram packed full of unique equipment their backyard shed was.

Naturally as 16 year olds we used to go around their place to work on our cars. The friend that lived there took my car battery out and put it on the charger in the shed, luckily he came straight back out again and was about 10 metres away when the battery exploded.

It blew 2 sheets of iron off the side of the shed and coated everything inside with a fine mist of acid. A few days later much of what was in the shed became rusted scrap metal. Apparently the charger was broken, my friends father had known this but didn't tell anyone else.
 
@Boogs , the vast majority of engineers I know have only got manual machines. With CNC it is very time consuming to make or machine one-off parts. This is where manual machines work best. Though years ago there were factories full of capstan lathes (a type specifically made to do repetition work) virtually all have gone to the great scrapyard in the sky.

Even now many machines sit in scrap yards. Some get rescued but many more just rust to the point they are beyond repair. A mate got tipped off that a rare one was sitting in a not quite local yard. This one was a Hardinge HLVH; a highly sought after toolroom lathe. He paid peanuts for it and it now gets used nearly every day making parts for customers.

Regarding my signature it is intended to show that I am neutral on the banned subject of politics. I'm aware that atheist is normally a religious term. On this rather divisive subject I am also neutral in part because I like to have my own beliefs on the various aspects of the cosmos.

Regarding bikes I am not brand orientated. In the little collection Dad and I have built up are 13 bikes. The oldest from 1927 and the newest from 1962. Of these eight were originally registered in my home county of Oxfordshire (chosen because they were local machines). The rest are a little scattered hailing from Birmingham, London, Lancashire, Manchester and Nottingham.

The most recent two are both BSA's. One is a 1959 Superrocket that Dad owned 1973-1980. The chap he sold it too still had it when we visited him a few years ago and we asked for first refusal. Late last year he phoned to see if we still wanted it. The answer was yes; an Oxfordshire bike from new. He them mentions another he had, a 1961 BSA C15. Normally a 250cc brit bike would be ignored because they are unable to keep up with modern traffic but... it was a City of Oxford bike still with the original card logbook from new. If we hadn't bought it it's registration number wouldn't still be on it. We bought it to save it from this fate.

The history of the vehicle comes first. All the bikes have their original registration numbers and that ain't changing. The oldest in the collection is the only one of that make and model left under it's London registration mark. Dad bought that one in 1979.

To date the Superrocket is the only bike Dad once owned that we have found. Somewhere out there lurks a 1928 BSA 770cc v-twin that he had in the 70s. The DVLA say it still exists under its Buckingham registration number; a two letter two number reg number; extremely rare to ever see one of these on the original vehicle.
Yeah, this is sort of what I was getting at (badly), about these old examples of pure engineering, where they had far less resources to count on, far fewer suitable materials to exploit, etc. And thus, the concept of a 'pure' design, that achieved it's function from the bottom up, rather than what seems to me like a much lazier approach (regards engineering) of making up for poor, even faulty design, by applying fixes of some sort. It offends my sense of the beauty of a good design, and the very feel of the correct use of materials, and the methods of forming them into the final product. You know when you pick something up, and the quality just oozes out of it, through your skin (so to speak)?
I never had the space, tools, skills or experience (and money) to work on old bikes - plus being very clumsy when it came to putting them back together! What's this gasket thingy left over? Does a cylinder head really need one? Isn't it just aesthetics? Aw, lets give it a try and see what ... aaagh! No! Turn it off someone!
But always appreciated what I saw as the purity of design, over the solutions modern technology have provided (with undoubtedly better performing bikes). But where's the soul in all that?

Just love that you've done all that to keep them alive for longer!
 
Just a little heartbreaking disaster story for you. One of my friends as a teenager was an apprentice toolmaker, his father was a toolmaker and so was one of the older sons, so you can imagine how cram packed full of unique equipment their backyard shed was.

Naturally as 16 year olds we used to go around their place to work on our cars. The friend that lived there took my car battery out and put it on the charger in the shed, luckily he came straight back out again and was about 10 metres away when the battery exploded.

It blew 2 sheets of iron off the side of the shed and coated everything inside with a fine mist of acid. A few days later much of what was in the shed became rusted scrap metal. Apparently the charger was broken, my friends father had known this but didn't tell anyone else.
Ouch! It often amazes me that I or my own reckless friends never had to pay the price of such shennigans (deliberate, or accidentl!
But it's so easy to take things for granted, and forget the dangers that lurk. Maybe a price of our safety conscious society that's taken enforcement of safety to such an extreme, people don't learn for themselves where the limits lie, and how to intuitively stay safe in dangerous conditions, even to identify those dangers?
Keep our kids safe indoors all their childhood, and the grow up to always be safe indoors, but not outside! (not to mention their immune systems lacking the sources of bio dangers to process and learn to manage - to provide later protections).
 
Well-Done-copy.jpg
 
Yeah, this is sort of what I was getting at (badly), about these old examples of pure engineering, where they had far less resources to count on, far fewer suitable materials to exploit, etc. And thus, the concept of a 'pure' design, that achieved it's function from the bottom up, rather than what seems to me like a much lazier approach (regards engineering) of making up for poor, even faulty design, by applying fixes of some sort. It offends my sense of the beauty of a good design, and the very feel of the correct use of materials, and the methods of forming them into the final product. You know when you pick something up, and the quality just oozes out of it, through your skin (so to speak)?
I never had the space, tools, skills or experience (and money) to work on old bikes - plus being very clumsy when it came to putting them back together! What's this gasket thingy left over? Does a cylinder head really need one? Isn't it just aesthetics? Aw, lets give it a try and see what ... aaagh! No! Turn it off someone!
But always appreciated what I saw as the purity of design, over the solutions modern technology have provided (with undoubtedly better performing bikes). But where's the soul in all that?

Just love that you've done all that to keep them alive for longer!
Thanks!

You'd be surprised how cheap some Brit bikes are, there are loads of Villiers-powered 2 strokes out there. Many are less than £1k. With cheap comes slow, you'll be lucky to get 40mph out of them on a good day! Perfect for twisty country roads though.

A chap in the village I saw today still has his original bike, a 1955 Sun Cyclone he bought new. Don't let the name fool you, this is a Villiers powered bike of 250cc (single cylinder) which can go over 50. He's done over 70,000 miles on that bike. As it is now it has an engine from a Dayton Albatross (250cc Villiers twin). No, I am not making up the name! This was a scooter.

(generic pics from the net)

So one like this;

R (1).jpg


Fitted with the engine from one of these;
R.jpg


Yet the top speed is exactly the same!
 
Just a little heartbreaking disaster story for you. One of my friends as a teenager was an apprentice toolmaker, his father was a toolmaker and so was one of the older sons, so you can imagine how cram packed full of unique equipment their backyard shed was.

Naturally as 16 year olds we used to go around their place to work on our cars. The friend that lived there took my car battery out and put it on the charger in the shed, luckily he came straight back out again and was about 10 metres away when the battery exploded.

It blew 2 sheets of iron off the side of the shed and coated everything inside with a fine mist of acid. A few days later much of what was in the shed became rusted scrap metal. Apparently the charger was broken, my friends father had known this but didn't tell anyone else.
Ouch! If I charge a battery like that it is always done outside. The small, sealed type are docile enough to charge indoors with the right kind of charger.
 
Ouch! If I charge a battery like that it is always done outside. The small, sealed type are docile enough to charge indoors with the right kind of charger.
My mate raced out the front to tell his father what had happened as soon as he heard the car pull up. Old Tony's first response was "You didn't use that charger in the shed did you? It's buggered". But yes, it was a lot of heartbreak for them, especially for Tony who knew it was his own fault.
 
@Outdated , many years ago Dad was doing some welding. He stopped at the end and heard this crackling noise. Sparks had set the shed he was next to alight. Luckily he was able to put it out and the damage was minor. He never welded near there again.
 
@Outdated , many years ago Dad was doing some welding. He stopped at the end and heard this crackling noise. Sparks had set the shed he was next to alight. Luckily he was able to put it out and the damage was minor. He never welded near there again.
For most of us it takes incidents like that to makes us think first. Fortunately most of us get a chance to learn from almost creating a disaster without actually causing too much harm.
 
Jeez, I catch up on my sleep, and miss all the action. I readily agree that the multi-cylinder bike is not engineered to use all that power.
I have an excellent shop that can produce aerospace grade composite parts, but it struggles with large metal bits or fine machining. When I need a lathe, I make do. I once made about a hundred various aluminum bits using a drill press with a cross slide, a table saw, and a tiny router. When they were taken in for anodyzing, we were asked who had done the CNC work. Most of the holes are for vernier-style adjustments, not light weight.

partslaidout[1].jpg
 
Jeez, I catch up on my sleep, and miss all the action. I readily agree that the multi-cylinder bike is not engineered to use all that power.
I have an excellent shop that can produce aerospace grade composite parts, but it struggles with large metal bits or fine machining. When I need a lathe, I make do. I once made about a hundred various aluminum bits using a drill press with a cross slide, a table saw, and a tiny router. When they were taken in for anodyzing, we were asked who had done the CNC work. Most of the holes are for vernier-style adjustments, not light weight.

View attachment 111347
Very nice! On one of my personal projects I drilled 700+ holes. Stage two was tapping all of these to M3. No, I did not develop forearms like Popeye doing it manually! All tapped on the milling machine using an ancient tapping head. This is a magic bit of kit that automatically stops (needs to be carefully set using the depth stop). When you start to lift the quill handle it reverses and out comes the tap leaving a perfect thread. Set it wrong and you'll be trying to extract a broken tap which is far from easy.
 
If you like holes, just search for "Drillium."
Drillium.jpeg

I once saw a spare Lunar Rover in a museum, and was appalled. Any racing bike mechanic could have pared many kilos off it even without a re-design.
 

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