Rant/Long post: Disability Benefit Assessment (UK)

[xudo]

I didn't know you could do that! Good luck with the outcome.

Capita do the assessments in here in Wales too, instead of ATOS. They were accomodating with my friend who's HFA for her assessments...not so much for my Mum (she has physical disabilities from arthritis).

 

[As sweet as-pie]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm definitely going to appeal and try to go to tribunal if I don't get both enhanced rates, and definitely if I get rejected outright. I've done an online "mandatory reconsideration request tool" on advicenow which said that based on my answers I am entitled to the enhanced on both. I'll update you all with progress.

 

[KiwiMonkey]

Unfortunately it's not just people with non-physical disabilities that don't get what they deserve, it's more to do with who you see more than what your disability is to whether you get PIP or not. My mum had indefinite DLA (middle care and high mobility) but because of the change over had to change over to PIP, and was taken off everything, and her main conditions are physical. When I had my PIP assessment the lady who assessed me was very nice, although she, like yours, knew nothing about asperger's or autism in general. I was given enhanced rate care, I should have also got standard rate mobility as well (as I can't follow the route of route of an unfamiliar journey alone, but can follow the route of a familiar journey alone) but decided against appealing. The mobility part is very hard to get if you aren't physically disabled (it's hard enough if you are), even though it's easier to get what you deserve at tribunal like others have said. To get enhanced mobility without problems physically walking you need to be able to convince them that you can't follow the route of an familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. I would advise if you haven't already to look at the specific criteria and highlight which descriptor should apply to you, you can find them here PIP Assessment | Points | A Guide | Focus on Disability If you don't know you need to get 8 points for standard rate and 12 for enhanced rate.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

Unfortunately it's not just people with non-physical disabilities that don't get what they deserve, it's more to do with who you see more than what your disability is to whether you get PIP or not. My mum had indefinite DLA (middle care and high mobility) but because of the change over had to change over to PIP, and was taken off everything, and her main conditions are physical. When I had my PIP assessment the lady who assessed me was very nice, although she, like yours, knew nothing about asperger's or autism in general. I was given enhanced rate care, I should have also got standard rate mobility as well (as I can't follow the route of route of an unfamiliar journey alone, but can follow the route of a familiar journey alone) but decided against appealing. The mobility part is very hard to get if you aren't physically disabled (it's hard enough if you are), even though it's easier to get what you deserve at tribunal like others have said. To get enhanced mobility without problems physically walking you need to be able to convince them that you can't follow the route of an familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. I would advise if you haven't already to look at the specific criteria and highlight which descriptor should apply to you, you can find them here PIP Assessment | Points | A Guide | Focus on Disability If you don't know you need to get 8 points for standard rate and 12 for enhanced rate.

I most definitely cannot follow any kind of route without someone with me and I've demonstrated this previously and explained to them. Unfortunately they implied that complete disorientation and being so overwhelmed that I am a danger to both myself, others and causing public disorder is not a good enough reason to need someone with me.

"a meltdown, oh yes you mean feeling anxious?"

I'm definitely going to go to tribunal if I'm not awarded the rate I should be on. I've looked through the points system/descriptors thoroughly and am planning to write a letter containing every applicable section and how it applies to me. Imo I think PIP should be awarded to people who would not be able to either work, or live alone. I could not live alone, and I definitely can't go out alone in any situation or work. If I don't get awarded the PIP that I'm eligible for I'll be quite concerned about my future financially.

Luckily, I'm very persistent and I'm sure they'll back down if I write them a dissertation on how my disability affects me!

 

[KiwiMonkey]

I most definitely cannot follow any kind of route without someone with me and I've demonstrated this previously and explained to them. Unfortunately they implied that complete disorientation and being so overwhelmed that I am a danger to both myself, others and causing public disorder is not a good enough reason to need someone with me.

"a meltdown, oh yes you mean feeling anxious?"

I'm definitely going to go to tribunal if I'm not awarded the rate I should be on. I've looked through the points system/descriptors thoroughly and am planning to write a letter containing every applicable section and how it applies to me. Imo I think PIP should be awarded to people who would not be able to either work, or live alone. I could not live alone, and I definitely can't go out alone in any situation or work. If I don't get awarded the PIP that I'm eligible for I'll be quite concerned about my future financially.

Luckily, I'm very persistent and I'm sure they'll back down if I write them a dissertation on how my disability affects me!

Hopefully they'll see that you deserve it even if it has to go to tribunal for you to get it Sometimes you have to be persistant, they rely on the disabled not having the energy or inclination to take it further.
PIP is not about whether you can work or not, it's to do with what needs you have day to day. It is ESA that is for people who have disabilities that cause problems with working. They are subtle differences but important ones. Some can have significant care needs and yet be able to work, therefore they would get PIP and not ESA, some people cannot work yet have no significant day to day needs, therefore they would get ESA and not PIP, and some people have significant day to day needs and have difficulty working and therefore should get both. I get both, my ESA also had to consider the fact that I was studying full time, personally I don't think I'm in a position to work even if I wasn't studying. I now have physical issues as well so when my PIP comes up I'll add that in as well, and I should be entitled to the enhanced rate of mobility as well as I really can't walk very far without severe pain and fatigue, I'm so afraid of losing the care component that I don't want to try and get more on the mobility side until its up and will have to be assessed again anyway.

 

[Streetwise]

I didn't know you could do that! Good luck with the outcome.

yeh but not many people remember their mantra make their life unbearable

 

[Aeolienne]

I didn't know you could do that!

Neither did I. I sent off the form and got a phone call a week later from Capita, who wanted to send someone round the following day (8 July). I was going away for the weekend so it was rescheduled for the following Monday. This was at such short notice that the paperwork from Capita explaining what to expect from the assessment didn't arrive until after the home visit - might just as well be Through the Looking-Glass! I can only assume that there aren't any assessment centres in this area (Leamington Spa in Warwickshire) so home visits are the only option.

The assessor actually came across as quite sympathetic. I didn't find myself having to say "yes, but.." in order to go into more details about how my condition affects me on worse days, because it seemed like the assessor was prompting me to say more. If that makes sense.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

Neither did I. I sent off the form and got a phone call a week later from Capita, who wanted to send someone round the following day (8 July). I was going away for the weekend so it was rescheduled for the following Monday. This was at such short notice that the paperwork from Capita explaining what to expect from the assessment didn't arrive until after the home visit - might just as well be Through the Looking-Glass! I can only assume that there aren't any assessment centres in this area (Leamington Spa in Warwickshire) so home visits are the only option.

The assessor actually came across as quite sympathetic. I didn't find myself having to say "yes, but.." in order to go into more details about how my condition affects me on worse days, because it seemed like the assessor was prompting me to say more. If that makes sense.

You're very lucky! Whenever I told my assessor more about how it affected me and didn't give him a yes/no he kept saying "right well it's not that complicated on the form just say yes or no" even for things about how each part of daily life was difficult.

Again, good luck with your outcome!

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

You're very lucky! Whenever I told my assessor more about how it affected me and didn't give him a yes/no he kept saying "right well it's not that complicated on the form just say yes or no" even for things about how each part of daily life was difficult.

Again, good luck with your outcome!

Yes, of course they just want a yes or no answer, as then they think you cannot detail your limitations, which makes it easier to deny a claim. Think of them like an opposing lawyer at trial. They want just yes and no answers to those on the stand, with no explanation. Sometimes, a yes or no answer does not apply, as the question can be worded vaguely, and as the answer could be both a yes and no, at the same time. When dealing with such agencies, as they twist everything to benefit their position, claimants need to always do the same. That makes things fair. That does not mean lying. It just means detailing in writing any and all limitations and functioning difficulties for each functionality or limitation form question, as pertaining to all settings, and not just necessarily answering precisely how they word the question, as remember, their questions are often written up in a biased way, or with important question omissions about mental health function difficulties.

 

[xudo]

Yes, of course they just want a yes or no answer, as then they think you cannot detail your limitations, which makes it easier to deny a claim.

It's not that they don't think you can detail them, more that the companies who carry out these assessments are paid for every person they deny benefits to. They are literally in the business of not giving people benefits, and taking them away from those who already have them. The DWP (Department for Work and Pensions) tried everything they could to not have to release the numbers of people who died after being declared "fit for work" and having their benefits removed. The number was staggering.

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

It's not that they don't think you can detail them, more that the companies who carry out these assessments are paid for every person they deny benefits to. They are literally in the business of not giving people benefits, and taking them away from those who already have them. The DWP (Department for Work and Pensions) tried everything they could to not have to release the numbers of people who died after being declared "fit for work" and having their benefits removed. The number was staggering.

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

Interesting article. Very tragic though. Although there are some differences between the U.K. and U.S. disability agencies or systems, in terms of information asked or required on forms, and their rules, practices, processes, and procedures, I think the same outcomes are desired: for claimants to be denied benefits, which saves them more money. In my opinion, it seems to me their thinking is 4-fold:

(1) A denied claimant may go back to work
(2) A denied claimant may give up appealing because of their flaring conditions because of those delays, and intimidating and unethical practices during the processes
(3) A denied claimant may do something illegal to not allow them future benefits
(4) A denied claimant dies during or after the process

In all those case, the government wins and saves money. Of course they will deny that is their intentions and thought processes. But thousands of lawsuits, hundreds of thousands of complaints, huge scandals and settlement payouts, from their wrongs, say otherwise.

They will not advertise why they ask questions on forms certain ways, or why they have delays, or why they twist the facts, or act rude and unfeeling, or why they resort to lies and break their own hidden rules, and why they do other unethical things. They want to keep everything a secret, but it is good those secrets are starting to more and more come out.

 

[Judge]

In a bad economy with the prospect of insufficient revenue, expect most any government to explore new ways to curtail entitlements and further restrict eligibility.

A fiscal reality more than a political one.

 

[Mr Allen]

I applied for PIP and was assessed at home by someone from Capita, not Atos - and at very short notice. I haven't heard the result yet.

Capita, or Crapita as they're often known, are worse than ATOS apparently.

They want 100% of the population in full time work, even those of us who can't work, and have official evidence from Doctors saying so.

 

[Streetwise]

It's not that they don't think you can detail them, more that the companies who carry out these assessments are paid for every person they deny benefits to. They are literally in the business of not giving people benefits, and taking them away from those who already have them. The DWP (Department for Work and Pensions) tried everything they could to not have to release the numbers of people who died after being declared "fit for work" and having their benefits removed. The number was staggering.

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

i wonder when the real figures are published ie mark woods from oxford died just shy of 4 months after been denied esa ,is starving to death and weighing 5 stones 8 pounds not good enough and more devilishly Mr woods suffered from ocd and was very fragile DIDNT eat properly!!! because of his disorder and was h.f.a
how many more have died and not been considered worthy of being on the death roll created being by successive governments

 

[Mr Allen]

The Tory government has blood on its hands IMO, with the amount of deaths/suicides based on ATOS assessments.

Like I said, 19 months ago they put me on ESA, even though I've spent the last 25 years in voluntary work, therefore IMO it's clear I could work in some capacity, just not full time otherwise I'd have to come off benefits.

However, what I don't want, is to be shoved into some government created "disabled specific" scheme to work for £2 a day for 5 days a week because all the clients are on benefits and can't earn much without severe sanctions, been there, done that and hated every second of it.

 

[Streetwise]

the last labour government employed!!! atos
remember we can only discuss politics in that section

The Tory government has blood on its hands IMO, with the amount of deaths/suicides based on ATOS assessments.

Like I said, 19 months ago they put me on ESA, even though I've spent the last 25 years in voluntary work, therefore IMO it's clear I could work in some capacity, just not full time otherwise I'd have to come off benefits.

 

[Aeolienne]

You're very lucky! Whenever I told my assessor more about how it affected me and didn't give him a yes/no he kept saying "right well it's not that complicated on the form just say yes or no" even for things about how each part of daily life was difficult.

Again, good luck with your outcome!

I've been turned down - scored straight zeros across all criteria. Oh well.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

I've been turned down - scored straight zeros across all criteria. Oh well.

That's outrageous. You should definitely appeal it. Pretty much everyone who goes to tribunal gets it the second time around. This is a useful tool : PIP Mandatory Reconsideration Request Letter Tool , and if you get a solicitor then you should win for sure.

Good luck whether you choose to appeal or not, I'm really sorry you were turned down! But I probably will be too. I'll let you know.

 

[xudo]

That's outrageous. You should definitely appeal it. Pretty much everyone who goes to tribunal gets it the second time around. This is a useful tool : PIP Mandatory Reconsideration Request Letter Tool , and if you get a solicitor then you should win for sure.

Good luck whether you choose to appeal or not, I'm really sorry you were turned down! But I probably will be too. I'll let you know.

I second this. My friend who's HFA had to go to a tribunal and they said she should never have been turned down in the first place. I believe you have to go through with the mandatory reconsideration first, and that will likely be unsuccessful and then you are able to go to tribunal. I would also agree with @As sweet as-pie in that getting a solicitor, or at least someone who can advocate on your behalf (and has experience of such matters) would be an excellent idea.

 

[Streetwise]

make sure there is nothing stored anywhere that they could find !
for instance on a forum saying you have a sports hobby or pictures of you taking part in that hobby on a forum ,the DWP rely on info to deny you benefit

Hopefully they'll see that you deserve it even if it has to go to tribunal for you to get it Sometimes you have to be persistant, they rely on the disabled not having the energy or inclination to take it further.
PIP is not about whether you can work or not, it's to do with what needs you have day to day. It is ESA that is for people who have disabilities that cause problems with working. They are subtle differences but important ones. Some can have significant care needs and yet be able to work, therefore they would get PIP and not ESA, some people cannot work yet have no significant day to day needs, therefore they would get ESA and not PIP, and some people have significant day to day needs and have difficulty working and therefore should get both. I get both, my ESA also had to consider the fact that I was studying full time, personally I don't think I'm in a position to work even if I wasn't studying. I now have physical issues as well so when my PIP comes up I'll add that in as well, and I should be entitled to the enhanced rate of mobility as well as I really can't walk very far without severe pain and fatigue, I'm so afraid of losing the care component that I don't want to try and get more on the mobility side until its up and will have to be assessed again anyway.