Rant/Long post: Disability Benefit Assessment (UK)

[Aeolienne]

From the PIP Mandatory Reconsideration Request Letter Tool:

How To Use This Tool
First we need to know which of the activities and descriptors that entitle you to PIP you think you meet.

The thing is, I'm not sure I meet any. As I may have already mentioned on this forum, I can cook a meal, communicate effectively in writing, wash myself and travel independently by public transport. I just would have liked the money, as right now I'm ineligible for any other benefits even though I'm unemployed.

This is what the DWP said in their letter under the My decision heading:

As your needs vary, my decision is based on the help you need most days. You said you can manage taking nutrition, managing therapy or monitoring a health condition, washing and bathing, managing toilet needs or incontinence, dressing and undressing, communicating verbally and reading and understanding signs, symbols and words. I agree you can manage these activities. You said you have difficulties preparing food, engaging with other people face to face and making budgeting decisions. I decide you can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided, engage with other people unaided and make complex budgeting decisions unaided.

You said you can manage moving around. I agree you can manage this activity. You said you have difficulty planning and following journeys. I decided you can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. At your recent consultation you appeared tense however your mood was stable. You were able to effectively engage with your assessor and establish eye contact with them. You demonstrated good long and short term memory and appeared to have insight into your condition. You demonstrated good cognition and were able to give detailed answers to the questions asked. This is consistent with informal observations at your face to face consultation, how you engaged with the assessor and your mental state examination results.

 

[xudo]

You said you have difficulties preparing food, engaging with other people face to face and making budgeting decisions. I decide you can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided, engage with other people unaided and make complex budgeting decisions unaided.

You said you have difficulty planning and following journeys. I decided you can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.

You obviously feel that you have problems in these areas, and pointed them out, but the assessor feels differently. Do you feel that they are wrong in these assessments?

At your recent consultation you appeared tense however your mood was stable. You were able to effectively engage with your assessor and establish eye contact with them. You demonstrated good long and short term memory and appeared to have insight into your condition. You demonstrated good cognition and were able to give detailed answers to the questions asked. This is consistent with informal observations at your face to face consultation, how you engaged with the assessor and your mental state examination results.

This annoys me slightly, as the one massive problem with these assessments is that they can only take in to account how you are on the day they see you. God forbid you happen to be having one good day in a six month period of terrible days.

 

[Aeolienne]

You obviously feel that you have problems in these areas, and pointed them out, but the assessor feels differently. Do you feel that they are wrong in these assessments?



This annoys me slightly, as the one massive problem with these assessments is that they can only take in to account how you are on the day they see you. God forbid you happen to be having one good day in a six month period of terrible days.

Re cooking, I find that I nearly always take longer than any estimated time given in a recipe, although that could be more due to the layout of my kitchen than my neurotype.

As for following journeys, I have been known to get lost and I often find I have to turn a map upside down to orientate myself.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

Re cooking, I find that I nearly always take longer than any estimated time given in a recipe, although that could be more due to the layout of my kitchen than my neurotype.

As for following journeys, I have been known to get lost and I often find I have to turn a map upside down to orientate myself.

I agree with xudo, it's definitely something worth appealing for just those areas, especially as you said you struggle with them and they dismissed it. However, that might not be enough to win the PIP appeal overall, but it could be. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

I wasn't awarded PIP. Surprise, surprise. They also lied about me, which is.... lovely. They said I was able to communicate verbally, but in the assessment I did not speak once, used gestures that he didn't understand most of the time, and avoided eye contact. My old psychiatrist also gave evidence against me, shame.. I liked her before that. The system is disgusting and immoral. Writing up my mandatory reconsideration now, no doubt that'll get cancelled too.

 

[Streetwise]

keep going! wear them down instead of yourself !!!!!!

 

[xudo]

I wasn't awarded PIP. Surprise, surprise. They also lied about me, which is.... lovely. They said I was able to communicate verbally, but in the assessment I did not speak once, used gestures that he didn't understand most of the time, and avoided eye contact. My old psychiatrist also gave evidence against me, shame.. I liked her before that. The system is disgusting and immoral. Writing up my mandatory reconsideration now, no doubt that'll get cancelled too.

Sadly, this happens a lot. You're correct in that the mandatory reconsideration will probably be rejected. However, you can then go to an appeal after that and most people are successful.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

Not sure if this is allowed, (if it's not then mods please remove ) but I wrote an article about this on my blog:

The DWP and Disability Benefits (UK)

 

[Aeolienne]

The person who originally encouraged me to apply for PIP now thinks I should apply for ESA. However my jobcentre adviser told me I wouldn't be eligible for the same reasons that prevent me from claiming jobseeker's allowance. (I can't claim income-based JSA because I own a property I'm not living in and I can't claim contribution-based JSA because I didn't make sufficient National Insurance contributions between 6 April 2014 and 5 April 2016.)

 

[xudo]

The person who originally encouraged me to apply for PIP now thinks I should apply for ESA. However my jobcentre adviser told me I wouldn't be eligible for the same reasons that prevent me from claiming jobseeker's allowance. (I can't claim income-based JSA because I own a property I'm not living in and I can't claim contribution-based JSA because I didn't make sufficient National Insurance contributions between 6 April 2014 and 5 April 2016.)

I would continue with the appeal against PIP and maybe look into ESA afterwards. Although by the sounds of it, you already know you would be ineligible.

 

[Mr Allen]

Hi all, I've just gotten home from my medical assessment for PIP with Independent Assessment Services (Formerly ATOS). If any of you are familiar with spoon theory, I am very low on spoons right now.

I attended the appointment with my dad because even though I'm now 18, he pretty much talks for me in all professional situations.

On the form they asked if there was anything they could do to make the appointment easier, and I said that a quick appointment with no waiting time would be helpful, but I still had a 10 minute wait. I can't help but think this was intentional.

Anyone familiar with IAS/ATOS knows that they are notorious for their reputation. It's also common knowledge that they are paid for every patient they decline. This is the country we're living in...

I often become non-verbal in appointments/professional or formal situations and with new people overall.
When the assessor first greeted me, he was overly friendly and even though I find it hard to read people I could see right through it.

I did not speak or make eye contact once. My dad answered all questions for me and I used gestures which weren't well understood by anyone. The assessor then said "if you can't speak for yourself then I'm just going to have to put no answer for everything". I've since realised this was a very clear trick as it would be nonsensical for this to be policy if one of the issues you're claiming for is mutism. I asked if I could write instead, and suddenly it wasn't an issue and he moved on.

Throughout the assessment I was asked questions about daily life and my dad explained about my severe executive dysfunction. None of it was exaggerated, if I lived alone I would not eat or drink or shower or probably move for days/weeks. The assessor didn't believe me and made a few sarcastic remarks such as "but you feel hunger?" "but you can think about it?"

It came onto how autism affects me and he asked what the "symptoms were" he also asked "so you've had it since 2017?" and my dad had to explain it's not something you get. He also asked why it wasn't being treated. Honestly why can't these people have even basic understanding of autism. These people get to decide if I have money to live on and yet are utterly incompetent.

He also stated that "meltdowns" were just feelings and wrote this on the report. Someone who thinks that an autistic meltdown is "just a feeling" has clearly never experienced nor witnessed one. Him saying this made me want to go out in public just to meltdown and if a professional was alerted, I could just tell them not to worry as it was "just a feeling".

Now we wait for the decision! I just needed to vent somewhere. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

I had the meeting with ATOS in December 2015, I was 39, and even though I've been doing voluntary work since before I left school, they declared me unfit to work and put me on ESA.

I was literally like WTF?! Surely the factual fact that I've done over 20 years of voluntary means I could work in SOME capacity?!

Jesus wept... And then they turn round and declare people who clearly aren't, fit for work and then some of these people go and commit suicide when their benefits are cut by the State and they can't cope!

I am now working with Autism Plus in Town to try and work on getting a paid job, just waiting to hear from CEX on the High St, I applied to them week before last for up to 16 hours including weekends if required, and not heard back yet, I called in last week to ask and they'd still got the advert in the window so they're still taking CVs.

 

[Judge]

Seems only at the beginning of this year the British government determined the manner in which both Atos and Capita were determining PIP eligibility was woefully deficient. Resulting in massive reviews of claims involving cuts and outright denials of benefits.

Under such circumstances I'd think most anyone initially turned down last year should try again.

All PIP disability claims to be reviewed

 

[Mr Allen]

Seems only at the beginning of this year the British government determined the manner in which both Atos and Capita were determining PIP eligibility was woefully deficient. Resulting in massive reviews of claims involving cuts and outright denials of benefits.

Under such circumstances I'd think most anyone initially turned down last year should try again.

All PIP disability claims to be reviewed

Ideally without just telling me to Google it, does anyone know how much I'd get on the middle rate of PIP versus the middle rate for mobility on Disability Living Allowance (DLA)?

If I'd be worse off on PIP the government can sod right off.

 

[Judge]

Ideally without just telling me to Google it, does anyone know how much I'd get on the middle rate of PIP versus the middle rate for mobility on Disability Living Allowance (DLA)?

If I'd be worse off on PIP the government can sod right off.

I don't think anyone here can accurately provide you with such information under the present circumstances. Keeping in mind that the scandal is about those who were denied benefits- not those already receiving them.

And that to succeed in the near future, Atos and Capita are going to have to provide more liberally determined assessments of eligibility under mounting public pressure. Which might mean cutting back on existing benefits presently being paid to accommodate new ones in great numbers.

With any limited government budget being mindful of that saying, "Robbing Peter to pay Paul".

 

[Mr Allen]

I would continue with the appeal against PIP and maybe look into ESA afterwards. Although by the sounds of it, you already know you would be ineligible.

PIP is better apparently, because unlike ESA, it doesn't restrict your working hours in the unlikely event you ever get a job as a disabled adult Aspie.

Anyway I'll stop there before I go on my usual Political rant.

 

[rollerskate]

Hi all, I've just gotten home from my medical assessment for PIP with Independent Assessment Services (Formerly ATOS). If any of you are familiar with spoon theory, I am very low on spoons right now.

I attended the appointment with my dad because even though I'm now 18, he pretty much talks for me in all professional situations.

On the form they asked if there was anything they could do to make the appointment easier, and I said that a quick appointment with no waiting time would be helpful, but I still had a 10 minute wait. I can't help but think this was intentional.

Anyone familiar with IAS/ATOS knows that they are notorious for their reputation. It's also common knowledge that they are paid for every patient they decline. This is the country we're living in...

I often become non-verbal in appointments/professional or formal situations and with new people overall.
When the assessor first greeted me, he was overly friendly and even though I find it hard to read people I could see right through it.

I did not speak or make eye contact once. My dad answered all questions for me and I used gestures which weren't well understood by anyone. The assessor then said "if you can't speak for yourself then I'm just going to have to put no answer for everything". I've since realised this was a very clear trick as it would be nonsensical for this to be policy if one of the issues you're claiming for is mutism. I asked if I could write instead, and suddenly it wasn't an issue and he moved on.

Throughout the assessment I was asked questions about daily life and my dad explained about my severe executive dysfunction. None of it was exaggerated, if I lived alone I would not eat or drink or shower or probably move for days/weeks. The assessor didn't believe me and made a few sarcastic remarks such as "but you feel hunger?" "but you can think about it?"

It came onto how autism affects me and he asked what the "symptoms were" he also asked "so you've had it since 2017?" and my dad had to explain it's not something you get. He also asked why it wasn't being treated. Honestly why can't these people have even basic understanding of autism. These people get to decide if I have money to live on and yet are utterly incompetent.

He also stated that "meltdowns" were just feelings and wrote this on the report. Someone who thinks that an autistic meltdown is "just a feeling" has clearly never experienced nor witnessed one. Him saying this made me want to go out in public just to meltdown and if a professional was alerted, I could just tell them not to worry as it was "just a feeling".

Now we wait for the decision! I just needed to vent somewhere. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

Is there any way you can count a real evaluation from a professional as part of the process? Any way to get legal help? I'm unfamiliar with the UK, but I do very well understand how cruel they can be when you apply for disability benefits, and how hard they try to deny them, especially for mental health/ invisible disability type issues.

Please remember though that they're not there to deny people with real issues. They are there to make sure there's no one lying about their problems just to get a free government handout. Excuse me while I roll my eyes at this... I am socialist, and thinking it really wouldn't be that big of an issue if everyone got "handouts" that were poor enough to need it. And universal healthcare.

Anyhow, they didn't want to give me benefits either. I got denied twice, then I got a lawyer that they had to pay for if I won. I owed nothing if I didn't get it. These lawyers basically only pick up the cases they know they will win, so they get paid for it.

The attorney had me go to a psychologist to undergo a 3 hour evaluation complete with tests and exercises. His conclusion was that I was indeed disabled, also grossly underdiagnosed.

I didn't even have to go to court for the appeal. The judge granted it immediately after that.

 

[Mr Allen]

Yeah any Judge worth his or her Wig would grant an appeal against the cuts.

Even @Judge on here if he was a real one possibly

 

[Aeolienne]

I would continue with the appeal against PIP and maybe look into ESA afterwards. Although by the sounds of it, you already know you would be ineligible.

I'm in full-time employment now so I definitely wouldn't be eligible for ESA. Too bad I'm also paying 40% of my monthly income on housing costs. My fault for being too incompetent to land a better-paid job.

 

[Mr Allen]

I'm in full-time employment now so I definitely wouldn't be eligible for ESA. Too bad I'm also paying 40% of my monthly income on housing costs. My fault for being too incompetent to land a better-paid job.

Don't knock it, if you're Aspie and/or otherwise disabled you were extremely lucky to get ANY job IMO.

 

[Aeolienne]

Last month I received a letter from the DWP beginning as follows...

There have been some changes in Personal Independence Payment (PIP) law which affect how the Department for Work and Pensions decides PIP claims.

We're looking again at PIP claims to find out which ones are affected.

This letter explains if and how these changes affect you.

These changes are to do with:
* how we assess someone's ability to plan and follow a journey
* how we decide whether someone can carry out an activity safely or not, and whether they need supervision

There is more information about these changes towards the end of this letter and at www.gov.uk/dwp/pip-changes

Your PIP claim

I've looked again at the PIP claim you made on 07 June 2017 and it's not affected by these changes in law.

What a brilliant use of taxpayers' money it was to inform me of this...