Religion Thread

[Geordie]

God, to me, is something deeply personal. To me, I can only experience Him, in my mind. So I will not believe in others, I only secretly but fervently believe in Him that I know.

 

[HelloDizzy]

Geordie, I took this pictur while in NYC at a Catholic shrine I used to pray at and I thought you may like it. Mary holding Jesus.

 

[Geordie]

Geordie, I took this pictur while in NYC at a Catholic shrine I used to pray at and I thought you may like it. Mary holding Jesus.

This certainly stirs strong emotions in me. I really feel a stronger conviction believing in Him with this picture

 

[TheFoz]

It seems to me, that religions are a lot like people on the Autism Spectrum. There are ones that have social blindness, a sense of unease about them, can easily be accused of a lack of empathy despite a deep rooted feeling. They mostly have strong moral codes and lots of rules to live by. Occasionally, some religions become nearly apoplectic when they are irritated, usually beginning over something most outside people don't see or view with skepticism.

Lots of churches will obsess tirelessly over specific minutia.
Some churches have difficulty getting new friends or trouble keeping friends.

In many ways it seems to me that God must have some sort of Asperger's for so many faiths to manifest so many specifically Asperger traits.

 

[_Josh_]

I'll mention a book that I have found to be overwhelmingly fascinating in so many ways. Anyone who finds religion interesting and has an open mind should check it out at least. I highly recommend it.

The Urantia Book - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gregmcph]

Typing to vent...

It's Easter Saturday night here in Australia. The most important, biggest Catholic Mass of the year. Yes, more important than Christmas. The Resurrection of Christ.
My wife is a good Catholic and she sings in the local Churches choir.
She now and again harasses me to go, but I'm not interested and she knows that. But now and again I go for her. I don't go for Jesus, I go for my wife.
And she pushes our kids to go to. Sometimes she gets me to push them to go. An irreligious guy, pushing his kids to go to church. They really aren't interested either. They do it for her.

So, tonight. She goes off to the big Easter Saturday mass alone, and then half an hour later txts me asking us to come up. So we do. Put on our shoes and drive on up. Find a corner in the crowded, darkened, incense filled church. She's up the front singing. No hope of her seeing us. We have come for her, and she won't even know it.

After an hour... it's a marathon 3 hour service on Easter Saturday... the lights come up, and new members to the Church are announced. Adults who are going to get Baptised.
And amongst them is John. John is a fellow irreligious husband who tolerated and accepted his wife's Churchy ways. He'd also come along to church for her. Because he loves his wife. And she can be a bit scary about her faith sometimes too. She'd talk angrily about how he lacked Faith. And I know that he has been coerced into this. He is getting Baptised for her, and for acceptance by her church friends. That is the point where my blood starts to boil. And I say to my kids "That's enough, lets go home". And we all walk out.

So that's it. I am not push my kids to church for the sake of my wife anymore. I am not going to be part of coercing them into joining the Cult. I am not going to push them into pretending to be part of something just for image, just for my wife's image.

The Orphan Masters Son. North Korea. The Lies we profess to believe so that we fit into Society. Or keeping true to what is inside.

Sorry. I know my rant might offend some people. If so, call me a fool and move on.
But I'm annoyed.

 

[epath13]

I'll mention a book that I have found to be overwhelmingly fascinating in so many ways. Anyone who finds religion interesting and has an open mind should check it out at least. I highly recommend it.

The Urantia Book - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The book looks interesting, if I find time, I'll read it. Just downloaded it, put it right next to the Bible I do want to finish Bible though. It seems it could have written by someone who claims to receive messages from higher beings. Sometimes peope like that are full of nonsense but sometimes it's absolutely amazing how much influence those books might have. I've read a few books written by people "receiving messages". And one of them has some meditation techniques. I've been very skeptical at first, but then tried and was shocked by the effect. But it's not for everybody obviously. So yeah, sounds interesting. Urantia foundation looks like a church to me though

 

[Aalo]

I am strongly an atheist. Ignostic, to say.

"The view that a coherent definition of God must be presented before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. Furthermore, if that definition is unfalsifiable, the ignostic takes the theological noncognitivist position that the question of the existence of God (per that definition) is meaningless. In this case, the concept of God is not considered meaningless; the term "God" is considered meaningless."

I was born into a Lutheran family, got child baptised, never got confirmed, resigned while after got to legal age. As a kid I tried for a while, but could not understand religious concepts. I'm not totally unspiritual, have my own philosophical leans and can understand other peoples need to have traditional communities and appreciate that as long as churches won't have a role in local or world politics. And even if I, who don't belong to church, would create enterprise, ought to pay some considerable taxes for it. As a reciprocal return Lutheran church has way more decision power of the state than it's holding percentage would imply, and that effects on every political field. Pardon my vulgar parable: I'd compare church to sports clubs. Not everyone belongs to them either, and they're fine financing themselves without state help by people feeling the need of their goods.
My local church does lots of good for unfortunated and ill, which is a great thing, I believe these actions would be supported voluntarily without institutional coercion.

 

[Spinning Compass]

Greg--having been raised Catholic myself I know exactly the type of people you are talking about. I could tell you plenty of stories of dysfunctional families where the mother was so into church and religion that she ignored what was going on right under her nose--and there was some very BAD stuff going on underneath her nose. It's funny because it's always the women, it seems. I guess that is because the home is the only place in Catholicism where women have power. Of course this is not confined to Catholicism. But what is it about religion that attracts women and repels men? I'd like to know. Even as long ago in the 19th century American feminists like Elizabeth Cady Stanton observed that women are the backbone of the church and that if they all walked out the men who were in charge would be preaching to largely empty buildings. But that's another topic.

Today I visited a Lutheran church because I was invited by a coworker and his family and I know it means a lot to them. After the service I was cornered by a woman who I would say was probably in her 60's or 70's--definitely older than me, and I am no spring chicken. When she found out I was going to the Unitarian church and was very happy there she said "But they don't believe in Christ!" Well--that is true, but I am sure that if you wanted to believe in Christ the Unies won't hold it against you. After all, they have ATHEISTS there (OMG! Shocking! What is the world coming to?) I said the big attraction that the Unies have is that they treat you like an adult. They don't cram a particular belief down your throat--they only offer you information and if it fits you pick it up, if not you pass it along to the next person. No, it's not for everyone. I said at 56 years old, if what I had learned in Sunday school hadn't caught on by now it was never going to catch on and no amount of sitting a pew or talking to a pastor is going to change things. I mean she was very well meaning but, number one, SHE WAS NOT LISTENING to what I had to say, and number two, there was nothing she or anyone else could say that I haven't heard already before at my age. For God's sake I am not a little kid. I've been around the block, I've had a number of experiences, I'm dealing with Aspergers, and you think by offering me well-worn platitudes that it is going to change me? Stop trying to put a notch on your Bible and start seeing me as a human being! If, at age 56, I have decided to "reject" what has been offered me all these years, don't you think that perhaps just maybe I might have very good reason to do so? And until you understand those reasons, until you understand what has led me to think and feel as I do, there's no use talking about it. Because dear lady, you just might find that I can run rings around you when it comes to Bible knowledge. As the discussion continued it also became very clear that she is one of those other world focused people. Well, I am sorry, but I have also found that when I start taking my eyes OFF my life and putting them on JESUS then my life starts spiraling out of control because I am not paying attention to the things that I should be paying attention to, which are the things of THIS world, not the next. So here's my rant, too.

 

[gregmcph]

My wife and I had a big talk about it all a day later.
She was good. She isn't forcing me to go to church, which I know. Part of it is me trying to please her. I have to be more outward in saying no to things.

We also talked about how inward some parishioners can be. She totally agrees with that.
That insular 'This is the way life works and only this way' attitude. Life shall be a middle class family with children based around the church. And that's it.
Even though we essentially live that life, it's not the only way to go.

And it was a bit creepy to discover that one lady with whom I thought I got along well is running with the attitude that if I don't return to regular church attendance, I am going to Hell. So be it. I might not be going to Heaven, but then again, I don't think she is either.

So... life goes on.


Trying to look at my motivations.
See if this is a middle-aged Aspergian desire to detach and separate myself from complicated Human Interaction. Of course part of it is.

Oh, and my wife and I are going to see the stage show of "Jesus Christ Superstar" with another quite Catholic couple.
(The Husband is a floating about "I believe in all sorts of odd things, many not Catholic", the wife being classic closed "Not Catholic == Bad Person")

But the show is starring Tim Minchin. The famous ATHEIST Tim Minchin.
Author of "The Pope Song". (Google it. VNSFW)

I don't know when I will bring that little fact out in conversation.

 

[abinun1987]

My parents like to pretend they're religious but I think it has to do with their upbringing. My mother will constantly berate my father or I if we make jokes about the Pope or whatever because she was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school for a good chunk of her life. My mother also seems to have a hard time understanding my perception of atheism. I guess she just can't understand how someone could live and not believe in a God...

I don't believe in intelligent design whatsoever. I don't believe in the paranormal (ghosts, aliens) and I don't believe in the power of prayer or what have you. I've studied various religions on my own as a hobby every now and then and I see it more as mythology or stories rather than something to be taken seriously. I'm not entirely pro-science either, however. I feel there are certain things which man was never meant to do. In my mind, I see religion and God as simply a goal for humanity... humans want to be God... and I don't agree with that. I feel humans have a frightful power and shouldn't put themselves higher than animals or the planet. We have the ability to destroy the planet and that's not something natural.

I believe that everything works in a rhythm of order and chaos. You simply exist and that's all. You don't transcend dimensions when you die and no one created you for a purpose. There is the universe and nothing else. Everything has a pattern or a natural order to it and even chaotic events apply to that rule in a sense. However, there is no intelligent design behind it. It is just simply a universal fundamental -- nothing more, nothing less. This is what I believe.

I can tolerate most religions, but Christians just annoy me to no end. I live in the Bible Belt of the United States and so I'm surrounded by Conservative Bible thumpers who believe that the Christian bible is the only law and that everything in it is something which cannot be opposed. Because of this, I cringe at the thought of Christianity and have a gut reaction whenever I see these people. It's a feeling of hatred and I can't help it considering the kinds of hypocritical numbskulls I'm surrounded by. Unfortunately, it's hard for me to change my mind when I have it set so even if I wanted to be more tolerant, it would take a massive effort on my part and I'm often too stubborn to do so.

Regardless, I have my semi-beliefs in how I feel the universe works. I don't tout it everywhere I go and I keep it to myself but I don't associate myself with others where religion is something integral in their life because they usually seem to assume that it is automatically a part of my life as well without even knowing who I am.

 

[pacman]

I am an atheist because the notion of 'god' seems rather incoherent. As a result, I do not think that there is any reliable (think testable, reproducable) evidence for the existence of a deity.

 

[SUM1]

I'm quite a strong atheist, for reasons concerning lack of suitable evidence of God.

 

[DealingWithIt]

Agnostic Buddhist, there is no evidence that there isn't a God, there is still no explanation for the existence of life, it's source or why we exist. Maybe we simply exist for the sake of existing, but I find that very hard to believe. Not looking for redemption or heaven, just asking, what if?

That's why we do space exploration, and archaeology, it's the longing to answer that what if question and a huge part of that question for me is what if there is a God, what if it died? what if it's still alive? Is there any truth to the old texts, did the ancients know something that we have lost, do the practitioners of devout faith feel something different from us? I have a lot of questions and I can't count anything out, besides, Buddhism doesn't say there is or isn't a god, just a cycles of life and death that can be transcended through discipline and who knows. We still don't know why those little cells grow and multiply and come together to form all the things around us. We can't explain why cloned life ages rapidly, and dies, how life initially came to be. Where did that one little carbon based cell come from and why? Why did it increase in complexity? why did all those variations occur? Do you really believe that you and I are just products of evolutionary luck, what if we're advancing towards something? I can go on for awhile. I think you get the gist, I'd love to understand more about how atheist explain the unexplainable.

If we ignore the feelings of interconnectedness that we feel and simple experiences, like thinking about someone and immediately getting a call from them, de javue, or just an overwhelming sense of awe in the presence of something magnificent like nature, then we are actively denying a fundamental part of the human experience, one that has no answer, but does lend itself to belief that there must be something more than this.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

 

[SoylentHuman]

I was brought up Catholic, baptized, confirmed, all that jazz. I've drifted away from the church in my adult years, and there are a couple of reasons why. First there's the reason that a lot of the atheists here have brought up, that there is no physical evidence that a god or gods exist. I'm a rational guy (I think), so that makes sense. The other big reason has more to do with my discomfort around large groups of people and personal lack of "social empathy", the ability to feel that one is part of a group. I've never been able to connect with the people of my parish on any meaningful level, and that made me feel left out.

I might revisit religion one day. If I do, I'll probably just go back to the Church. However, I will always be an agnostic: I believe the exist or nonexistence of God is something that humanity can never hope to know for sure, and was never meant to in the first place.

 

[Dirtdigger]

I hope you do some soul searching before you become a Christian. You must realize that Christianity in a way is more judgmental to a person who is different or have a mental disorder. If you read the Bible you will read many cases where Jesus cast out evil spirits or at least this is what the Bible says, from people just like us and I'm sure Autism was around back then. I was a Christian, even a fundamentalist, decided to become ordained in May of 2006 and have the title of Reverend. I also got serious about the Bible reading it for the umpteenth time just to find out how evil, judgmental and false it is. And it is really sad how those in the Bible treated the people with mental disorders.

As for brainwashing, you have to take responsibility for your own actions and can't really blame any other religion when you could have gotten advice from others. And just because Christianity has the biggest congregation doesn't make them a good church for us with Autism. The last thing we need is the 10 commandments which is man-made because Moses was a fundamentalist Jew, rubbed in our faces. And when Jesus came along he preached it is a sin to even think about wrongdoing. Good example: Lust. It seems to be a natural thing for just about every human (NT or Autistic) on earth for something like this to enter our minds.

I became a Deist shortly after becoming ordained, because they see a more sensible, non judgmental view of the world. Deism is a very peaceful religion. I hope you do research on Christianity before you decide, like I did and hope you can get away from religions that make you unhappy. Good Luck.

 

[Spinning Compass]

I agree with Dirtdigger. In my experience, "salvation" often comes with strings attached that you may not know about right away. Many of these new "nondenominational" churches often do not have membership classes (the one I was in didn't) and expectations are not always spelled out in black and white. For example, nowhere in the membership packet or on the website for my former church did it say anything about women being prohibited from leadership positions (something I found out by accident, and a fact many long-time members did not know when I pointed it out to them). Nor did it say anything about them being a young-earth creationist church, etc. I've written about this in my blog.

As I see it there are two big dangers when it comes to the autistic person and Christianity. One is that we tend to be withdrawn and often depressed. A church that encourages its members to withdraw from "the world" and only socialize with like-minded people is not a healthy one for us; neither is a church that emphasizes the total depravity of man (a key teaching of Calvinistic and Reformed churches). We don't need to come to church on Sundays to be beat down; we are already quite capable of that on our own.

The second danger is that we often tend to get carried away about things. I know from personal experience that it is very easy to slip into religious fanaticism and that there will be nobody there in the church who will say, you are taking this too far. On the contrary you will be encouraged in your excesses. The fact that you are not able to function well in society is of little concern to them. I have found that the best defense against this is to have at least one trusted friend who is NOT part of that religious system who will be better able to view things with an objective eye and let you know when you are going off the track.

 

[Nega Rark]

Goodness! I couldn't read all the posts in one go before replying! I hope I don't speak out of turn.

My favorite religion is Rastafarianism. Seems so peaceful.

One of my last-ditch efforts to try and learn to be human was to go to AA meetings. I didn't get a DIWI, or even really drink, but I thought the time going to meetings would help me learn. Guess I just didn't have the early intervention to be normal at these meetings... Although I got all my rosary beads in Church.

 

[IbiPatria]

I am what is often labelled 'cradle Catholic.'
I am also very logical, have an IQ above 150, am very objective and love playing devil's advocate. I spent a large chunk of my life (from ages 13-26) either exploring a variety of religions or as some may write it, 'religions.' I was agnostic for about 3 years toward the end. And then I reconciled my objective, logical, science-y mind with my Roman Catholicism. I am currently a practicing Catholic. I study theology and am an avid apologist. I also will begin my 3 years' course in catechism in March.

However, it's my religion and I respect people's views, experiences, etc. I also see it this way, from a religious view: I'm not in control of people's destinies. I believe there's a reason things occur and trust in my Faith enough that I don't need to launch a crusade to correct everyone's view (nor do I believe I SHOULD.)

This doesn't mean I'm a relativist in terms of humanity and morals. I wouldn't ignore a genocide and I will not let things like human trafficking go just because it's 'meant to be.' Also, as an apologist, I enjoy debate with people who are willing, with backing evidence for statements and definitely not on this forum. Maybe a PM but I prefer other avenues.

And yep. That's me.

 

[Wintertime]

I am an athiest, or secular humanist, skeptic, or whatever label fits. I would say, an ethical humanitarian or ?earthitarian?. I want what's best for the planet, its environment, and the people that call it home, in dignity. Religion is a bit of a sore spot with me. I have a little bit of 'church trauma' from growing up, and so I tend to stay away from discussions about religion. My bad church experiences didn't influence or factor into my not believing in god, it just made me wary of churches. The two are separate to me. But as it stands, I am non-religious and I don't believe in god or any deity. I try and approach life and its challenges from a philosophical position. And I am definitely a scientific, logical thinker.

^ the reason I shared that in a religion thread which I stated that I don't usually participate in religion discussions, is because I am new here and I just wanted to be transparent with where I stood.