Romance, Relationships and Autism - A Speculation

[Judge]

So mirroring is a useful thing, and helps me understand how to demonstrate that someone is important to me.

Point taken.

Which leads me to ask, what is one is unable to successfully mimic or mirror other behaviors in an attempt at courtship? Where there is just something that serves as a perpetual "block" to achieving a relationship that will move in a mutually positive direction. What if it just "isn't there" for someone?

 

[tazz]

In trying to understand my long-term relationships I always felt that I was committed to the big stuff but didn't really understand the need for the small stuff. Like I'd take a bullet to save my partner without hesitation, but it wouldn't occur to me to hold hands.

I came to understand that they needed both the big and small. But the small stuff is such an uncomfortable, alien concept for me, it always comes across as insincere.

I think this applies to other types of relationship too, not just romantic. I have a niece and nephew I'm very close to. I know that I would be there for them if they needed me, no matter what. But I don't feel a need to maintain contact with them or be part of their lives, which has got me into trouble with their parents - when they feel like I'm ignoring their kids.

 

[Judge]

In trying to understand my long-term relationships I always felt that I was committed to the big stuff but didn't really understand the need for the small stuff. Like I'd take a bullet to save my partner without hesitation, but it wouldn't occur to me to hold hands.

I came to understand that NTs need both the big and small. But the small stuff is such an uncomfortable, alien concept for me, it always comes across as insincere.

I think this applies to other types of relationship too, not just romantic. I have a niece and nephew I'm very close to. I know that I would be there for them if they needed me, no matter what. But I don't feel a need to maintain contact with them or be part of their lives, which has got me into trouble with their parents - when they feel like I'm ignoring their kids.

Well stated. Applies to me too, no question.

LOL...except that holding hands was one thing I did get. But then that's why I mentioned it. One of those few "small things" I really gave little thought to. Why did I get that one? Another mystery....

Well that was fast. Just answered my own question based on earlier comments. It's a physical gesture- not a verbal one or something with unwritten rules. I suppose in my mind all physical gestures count as projections of love and affection. Which probably seemed a bit skewed from an NT point of view. While verbal queues may have counted much more to them. That's where I went wrong.

 

[Aspychata]

In NT, this is described as your love language, but in ND, this is described as we need to find out each other's idiosyncrasies, and then go from there. In NT, I ask what is your love language? What types of intimacy and affection hold meaning for you? Because a ND, may say l hate cuddling after intimacy. I don't like being touched alot. The NT may say call me on my lunch break or l feel neglected. The ND may say l hate phone calls, l can't live up to some social script that doesn't apply to me. So I have to ask why should l ask someone to mask society's cultural norms? In a romance with me? But if you are NT, then you better have it together because l am definitely holding you to those norms. But having somebody's back, be there when needed, this is always important regardless of being ND or NT.

 

[Crossbreed]

I invite spontaneous affectionate touch
as long as I am not carrying something

• fragile,
• heavy,
• hot or
• sharp.

And I offer the same where appropriate.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

This is a fraught topic for me because I have just been able to calm myself down after reminders of sexuality I denied myself when young. I will be discussing this with my therapist on Monday. The crux of the matter is as I have described below.

I was always on the outside looking in because there was no way for me to be in any intimate relationship. I understand now that I did not know how, or have the social skills to interest any girl/woman. Plus, I could not understand if any were interested in me and I did not want to try to connect only to be negatively judged for one more thing in my life. I learned to self-reject, never seeing myself as good enough for any girl or woman. I am furious that nobody cared enough to take an interest in me for the help I needed. I had to find my own way through social difficulties, by myself, to be attractive enough for Susan to notice me. I never had the opportunity to explore my sexuality as many people did and I still feel deficient, damaged, unwanted.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

In NT, this is described as your love language, but in ND, this is described as we need to find out each other's idiosyncrasies, and then go from there. In NT, I ask what is your love language? What types of intimacy and affection hold meaning for you? Because a ND, may say l hate cuddling after intimacy. I don't like being touched alot. The NT may say call me on my lunch break or l feel neglected. The ND may say l hate phone calls, l can't live up to some social script that doesn't apply to me. So I have to ask why should l ask someone to mask society's cultural norms? In a romance with me? But if you are NT, then you better have it together because l am definitely holding you to those norms. But having somebody's back, be there when needed, this is always important regardless of being ND or NT.

I do know my love language, and though I'm ND, it is Physical Touch. I did not know I had that in me because before making love to my future spouse (of 44 years) I was hesitant about demonstrative touch. Now I enjoy our snuggles and cuddles, and more.

 

[Crossbreed]

Physical touch would probably be mine, too.

 

[Aspychata]

Doing things together, not 24/7, but something like cooking together, or biking together, or birdwatching together, listening to poems or music together. This makes me feel alive.

 

[Shamar]

What if one neurologically cannot socially or romantically process what they observe? That for some, observing social/romantic protocols can not only be confusing, but that for whatever neurological issue that they can't even see- or imagine them. Even if in their minds, they try.

If you have read my other posts along these lines, you can probably guess my answer. I can observe it, analyze it, but still not understand it. Confusing doesn't begin to describe it. I try, and do, in my mind, but it can never work in real life. The part I really have trouble processing is how others can interact without mind paralyzing panic.

Is it possible for an autistic man or woman to have what amounts to as a "void" in understanding specific social protocols and not necessarily others? What gives us the expectation that such a person's issues can be overcome only through technique, attitude, or a thorough understanding of social protocols pertaining to romance?

I'm the poster child for that. I can interact well, depending on how well I know them, on a business, professional, or technical level (albeit uneasily to very uneasily). As soon as it gets personal or social, I become non-functional. I've been through all sorts of help trying to overcome this, to no avail. As I said in another post, does this inability to function make me ASD3?

We've spent so much time on relaying our own experiences whether positive or negative towards others' concerns. However what if their reality really is that they have no chance at romance? All because of how they are individually and neurologically "wired".

Is this possible, and have we overlooked the possibility?

How do you even get experience (either good or bad) when unable to even approach another person? Yes, my brain is wired differently. Given my inability to even feel emotional attachment (lust, yes, attraction, yes) to anybody, it is pretty much a given that I have no chance at romance. This has been my life so far, and I will likely remain so for the rest of it.

 

[Neri]

Touch is important to me. Also conversation. Also positive feedback. Myself and my ND guyfriend need a lot of positive reassurance to make up for the lack of, in our earlier lives. We make sure to show appreciation for all the little things that we do for each other. Our relationship has a lot of silliness built in, as well. Humour serves as a kind of a stim behaviour to combat how anxious and depressed we've both been, a lot of our lives.

At the moment we are both pretty burnt out from the demands of life, so we give each other leeway to do the things that give our brains comforting downtime.

I think neurodivergent relationships can have strength that comes from considering and understanding each other's need for stimmy, self soothing activities.

Myself and my guy could never please a NT partner, but we have a compatible groove because of our similar neuro-phenotypes.

We are both "givers" though, empathic to a fault, and responsible parental types.

 

[Wolfnox]

I "kicked the tires" before I committed (as I always did).

Good analogy.

 

[Wolfnox]

I’m kinda all over the place in this topic . I have existed with an inability to process love the feeling. As others tell me they love me. But, the word alone is meaningless to me. I don’t “feel” love. I associated hugs and physical touch with that word. Without it there is no relationship. I can’t maintain one threw words alone.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I’m kinda all over the place in this topic . I have existed with an inability to process love the feeling. As others tell me they love me. But, the word alone is meaningless to me. I don’t “feel” love. I associated hugs and physical touch with that word. Without it there is no relationship. I can’t maintain one threw words alone.

That is where my spouse and i have miscommunicated. She believes that she communicates her desire for me through words, while I was expecting touch to communicate that and we were talking past each other.

 

[Wolfnox]

That is where my spouse and i have miscommunicated. She believes that she communicates her desire for me through words, while I was expecting touch to communicate that and we were talking past each other.

Exactly. I fear the miscommunication part should I end up in a relationship.

 

[Judge]

If you have read my other posts along these lines, you can probably guess my answer. I can observe it, analyze it, but still not understand it. Confusing doesn't begin to describe it. I try, and do, in my mind, but it can never work in real life. The part I really have trouble processing is how others can interact without mind paralyzing panic.

I'm the poster child for that. I can interact well, depending on how well I know them, on a business, professional, or technical level (albeit uneasily to very uneasily). As soon as it gets personal or social, I become non-functional. I've been through all sorts of help trying to overcome this, to no avail. As I said in another post, does this inability to function make me ASD3?

How do you even get experience (either good or bad) when unable to even approach another person? Yes, my brain is wired differently. Given my inability to even feel emotional attachment (lust, yes, attraction, yes) to anybody, it is pretty much a given that I have no chance at romance. This has been my life so far, and I will likely remain so for the rest of it.

Thank you for such candid response. Sorry to hear, but such possibilities certainly fall in line given so many of our traits and behaviors. Making some kinds of interactions with others nearly impossible in attempting to satisfy the demands of a world we don't fully or even partially understand.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Judge

I think the topic mixes distinct categories that can't be reasonably compared (so not the "apples and oranges" variety of relationship, but "apples and oceans").

To me "recognizing sarcasm" and "long-term romantic feelings towards another person" are very different

I'm fairly confident that communication about something that you only understand abstractly is possible. But not necessarily easy. That would mean a close relationship between an NT and an alexithymic ND could be negotiated and lived, even if the individuals perceive the relationship's core in very different ways.

But what if the NT wants a truly emotional aspect that the ND cannot feel?
Even if the NT's emotional requirements aren't realistic, or they're largely fake (definitely a thing) they shouldn't get together.

So you'd expect the path to an LTR to be harder for people (like many/all ASDs) who have a different emotional palette than NTs.
And impossible in some cases. But not impossible in all cases.

Note that the "OCD" style "first love" isn't permanent, and seems to become harder and harder to reignite. But it's real, and if one party requires it, and the other party can't provide it, they have a big problem.

OTOH to me this is a pointer to the fact that there's a lot more to a permanent pair bond than the initial high-intensity period. Bonding (at the hormonal level) in men also occurs with children, particularly the first.

For example men's testosterone levels drop by a lot (maybe a third) after their first child is born. Why? Because testosterone suppresses the effect of bonding hormones. It drops so the father can bond with his child(ren)

... which also explains a lot about a related domain, but I CBH defending the facts. Try here:

 

[Judge]

@Judge

I think the topic mixes distinct categories that can't be reasonably compared (so not the "apples and oranges" variety of relationship, but "apples and oceans").

To me "recognizing sarcasm" and "long-term romantic feelings towards another person" are very different

They are very different. However the point I'm trying to emphasize is the idea that some things are utterly void in the minds of autistic people. That's all. A single common denominator. No more, but no less either.

That some deficits (whatever they may be) can be profound, as opposed to something expressed in degrees.

 

[Dagan]

I will say that, for me, nothing is there until I have that whole trust and comfort thing I keep mentioning. It all starts upstairs for me. If I'm not okay in my mind about it all, the rest won't follow. I won't get detailed about the ways that I may or may not become comfortable. I certainly feel respectful about the paths I have to take, though.

I guess that, up to the point of reaching trust and comfort, perhaps I can seem like a prude. I am absolutely not, though, and I think I have proven it. I'm not against touch or full romantics or pleasure practices. I'm just not someone who can jump into bed with a gal I have just met and have no "feel" for whatsoever. It would make me cringe and probably not even allow my body to cooperate for performance, if you will.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Judge

But ... can there be something for which are words in the common language that cannot be appreciated as abstract concepts?

There's no question that there are things that one person can conceptualize and another can't (like the principles of quantum physics). But IMO the closer you get to human interactions and interpersonal communication using the same spoken language, the smaller the likelihood of a true void.

To relate to your first example: you can learn to deal with sarcasm in your native language, but I imagine it would be a lot of work. It's weird but there's a protocol. (it's an issue for me in my local language though).

OTOH I don't think you can learn to feel a "new" emotion, but I think you can position it relative to other conceptual knowledge.