So I started to post about autism on a homeschooling forum...

[SimplyWandering]

I am sure most people who are autistic here have heard the saying " You don't look autistic to me...I mean i have those problems too"

And yet a lot these are the people who happen to be all about champions of social justice.


It's absolutely rediculous!

 

[Nervous Rex]

Where the problem probably lies is that these particular NT women are not able to see the part of the world that doesn't relate to them.

100% agreed.

Everybody does it*. The brain is hard-wired to simplify the world around us into as few thoughts, ideas, and rules as possible. We can easily view all people of a different race, gender, political party, country, and religion as a whole, considering everyone in that group to be the same. We naturally group things, generalize, and oversimplify - it takes conscious, deliberate effort to not generalize.

(*See. I generalize, too.)

 

[Nervous Rex]

I already hate the "we are all a little autistic" line.

The more I hear lines like that, the more I want to say something like, "But does it rise to the level of needing intervention or help to deal with? Because, everyone who is diagnosed with autism by following to the DSM has a need for clinical treatment or help of some sort."

I want to say something like that. I probably never will because:

A) If someone doesn't get it, it's easier for me to avoid that person than to attempt to educate them.
B) If someone doesn't get it, why risk exposing myself to their opinions?
C) That answer is a bit snippy, and antagonism usually just makes people more entrenched in their opinions.
D) I really am trying to be a nice person.

But I want to say that.

 

[Nervous Rex]

Less than a year ago I overheard an infuriating conversation in which one of my classmates was horribly offended that her cousin was being evaluated for autism, stating that 'she has some problems, but she doesn't have a disability' and complaining about how that girl didn't meet a whole list of autistic stereotypes.

So far, the best line I've ever heard (or read) is, "If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism." Honestly, I want to put up a statue to honor whoever came up with that line.

If someone wants to make generalizations, I can always counter with, "I personally know someone with autism who isn't like that" (or "...who isn't disabled" or "...who lives a rich and fulfilling life" - whatever stereotype they're using). I think a personal anecdote is the best counterargument for any stereotype or generalization.

 

[Nervous Rex]

First, there were the misunderstandings. ...

Then there were the NT women that make me run from almost everyone gathering of NT women I've ever seen. ...

And then there were a few voices of reason--mostly from autistic women.

It sounds like the same sort of reaction you would get if you shouted it out to any group of people in public - at the store, at the park, etc. Some people get it, some are trying and will understand eventually, some don't try, and some aren't capable of getting it.

And I realized that I'm comfortable here.

Me, too. I really like this place. Really. A lot.

 

[Pats]

The more I hear lines like that, the more I want to say something like, "But does it rise to the level of needing intervention or help to deal with? Because, everyone who is diagnosed with autism by following to the DSM has a need for clinical treatment or help of some sort."

I want to say something like that. I probably never will because:

A) If someone doesn't get it, it's easier for me to avoid that person than to attempt to educate them.
B) If someone doesn't get it, why risk exposing myself to their opinions?
C) That answer is a bit snippy, and antagonism usually just makes people more entrenched in their opinions.
D) I really am trying to be a nice person.

But I want to say that.

Could always come back with something along the lines of: I think the biggest difference is actually that those on the spectrum are not typically as shallow as NT's. (And don't take me wrong - this is not a slur on all NT's - just a response to someone making that ignorant statement.)

 

[Nervous Rex]

Could always come back with something along the lines of: I think the biggest difference is actually that those on the spectrum are not typically as shallow as NT's.

Ooof. Right for the jugular.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

If you've met one person with autism."

You're probably looking in the mirror.

There's not that many of us about...

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Ooof. Right for the jugular.

You're probably too stupid to understand.....



(Editing for ambiguity - I meant for it to say to the person, not directing it towards you! )

 

[Nervous Rex]

You're probably too stupid to understand.....



(Editing for ambiguity - I meant for it to say to the person, not directing it towards you! )

I figured that out...after a few minutes.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I figured that out...after a few minutes.

Oops. :

Guess I'm the 8008 this time.

Ambiguity again. It has followed me for a long time....

 

[Clueless in Canada]

Apparently. Or maybe I crossed that line when I told him that I could recommend a good logic program. I was annoyed by that point.

I have found, though, that most people who would prefer to argue based on emotional appeals really get irritated when anyone brings logic into the discussion. And I hate watching people fall for that crap. There's a time and a place for arguing that an action is the compassionate answer, but if it's not also based on sound reasoning, then what's the point?

I agree and I admit to being negatively judgemental about people who use emotions rather than logic. I think it is ideal to use both but if I had to have one without the other I'd take logic. I guess that's basically what you said. I have had many conversations with people where I said things like, 'but logically..' and the other person said, 'but I feel that...' and it does drive me nuts but I also think that being driven nuts by emotional arguments is a bit of an emotional response. So hah to myself for being a hypocrite.

 

[Anarkitty]

I agree and I admit to being negatively judgemental about people who use emotions rather than logic. I think it is ideal to use both but if I had to have one without the other I'd take logic. I guess that's basically what you said. I have had many conversations with people where I said things like, 'but logically..' and the other person said, 'but I feel that...' and it does drive me nuts but I also think that being driven nuts by emotional arguments is a bit of an emotional response. So hah to myself for being a hypocrite.

Counter argument: Perhaps it's rational to be irritated by another's irrationality.

 

[Anarkitty]

A few years ago I'd also have said I'd never had any problems from being autistic

Question, then, if it's not too personal (and apologies if it is): What prompted the autism diagnosis then?

That's not intended to be argumentative or confrontational! I'm trying to understand something here.

I'm self-diagnosed, and when I first began suspecting that I might be autistic, I had a relatively small number of "Aspie tendencies" that I could point to. After reading about it, though, like you, I started discovering just how broadly and deeply autism has affected my life.

BUT, at the same time, there was already an understanding that I was different, not quite right. My family always made that plain, and I have asked my husband, multiple times over the years when various things have gone weirdly for me, "What is wrong with me?"

It just seems that we hear so much more about the troubles autistic people face and the deficits that we have that "I think I'm autistic" and "I've never had any problems from it" don't really go together in my head.

It seems like recognizing the autism is first and foremost a matter of recognizing the deficits and problems that we've had. So I'm curious about it happening a different way for others.

 

[Anarkitty]

I want to say something like that. I probably never will because:

It sounds like the same sort of reaction you would get if you shouted it out to any group of people in public - at the store, at the park, etc. Some people get it, some are trying and will understand eventually, some don't try, and some aren't capable of getting it.

I feel like I'd be able to communicate more effectively if I didn't have to constantly translate what is in my head to polite-speak. And I don't mean just being snarky because sometimes, I am.

But there's a long list of things that are considered "not polite." Like, it's not polite to info-dump on random strangers we run into even though they technically started it by saying something about our lifestyle, etc.

I don't think I'm explaining what I mean very effectively here. I guess I just wish that politeness allowed for meaningful exchanges in the world instead of everything always remaining at a superficial level.

BTW, sometimes I click on your avatar and just watch it for a little while!

 

[MeghanWithAnH]

Question, then, if it's not too personal (and apologies if it is): What prompted the autism diagnosis then?

That's not intended to be argumentative or confrontational! I'm trying to understand something here.

I'm self-diagnosed, and when I first began suspecting that I might be autistic, I had a relatively small number of "Aspie tendencies" that I could point to. After reading about it, though, like you, I started discovering just how broadly and deeply autism has affected my life.

BUT, at the same time, there was already an understanding that I was different, not quite right. My family always made that plain, and I have asked my husband, multiple times over the years when various things have gone weirdly for me, "What is wrong with me?"

It just seems that we hear so much more about the troubles autistic people face and the deficits that we have that "I think I'm autistic" and "I've never had any problems from it" don't really go together in my head.

It seems like recognizing the autism is first and foremost a matter of recognizing the deficits and problems that we've had. So I'm curious about it happening a different way for others.

I've known I was different from everyone else for as long as I can remember, I just never considered it to be a problem. I've never had any desire to be normal. I also knew I had problems with some things, but I blamed those on my own irresponsibility and lack of self-control, not on anything connected to any other reason that I was different. I learned that you shouldn't complain about things that no one else thinks are a big deal, so I assumed that everyone had the same problems I did and just dealt with them better (e.g. stress and sensory overload) or cared more about trying to fix them (e.g. having friends all the time).

I first encountered the idea of Aspergers in high school and noticed that it fit me fairly well, and thought it was kind of cool that there might be a group that I belonged to. I could never be sure, though, especially since this was before much information had come out about how it can present differently in girls. I wanted to know for sure but I'd also read about how hard it is for women to get diagnosed and my mom was not receptive to the idea, so I didn't think I could bring it up to anyone. For the next ten years I would go through brief periods of getting excited and obsessed with reading about it when some article I read would bring it up, but then I would always go on with life. I also read a lot of blogs from people in the growing neurodiversity movement, which helped me develop a very positive and accepting view of neurological differences.

I started having more problems in grad school and when entering the workforce, but I still blamed those problems mostly on my own and other people's personality flaws. I suspected Aspergers, or autism spectrum disorder as it had become by that point, was limiting my social abilities, but I still didn't care that much and I didn't recognize the other areas where it was affecting me. I finally ended up getting an additional degree in a field that works with many people on the spectrum, so it came up all the time in my classes, which lead to me being constantly obsessed with it. I still doubted myself so I started writing down examples of why I thought I fit the diagnostic criteria, and within a few months I had a 58 page document that showed autism's influence on my life, for good and for bad, since early childhood. Since then I've been diagnosed and studied ASD extensively, both for personal reasons and for the clients I work with. It has let me stop being so frustrated with myself and judging myself so harshly, and has helped me find effective ways to deal with problems that I had assumed were just part of me forever. I now recognize many of my problems as coming from having a naturally different set of strengths and weaknesses than people are expected to have.

So I guess me discovering autism started with being excited about finding a category that I might fit into, grew into improving my self-image by learning from positive examples from that category, and then finally evolved into using insights from that category to find better solutions to my problems, and then hopefully helping others do the same.

 

[Anarkitty]

@MeghanWithAnH, thank you! I can understand that. And I had similar experiences with just thinking about some of my problems as character flaws. When I thought of my "Aspie tendencies," those traits weren't even on my radar.

Also, I have my own 50 document. I started it while going through I Think I Might Be Autistic.

I didn't have any positive examples of neurodiversity, though. In fact, I'd say that most of the people I've known well, both online and IRL, see this kind of thing as an excuse rather than a reason, and they mostly seem disbelieving about any but the most severe cases of classical autism.

 

[Nervous Rex]

BTW, I sometimes I click on your avatar and just watch it for a little while!

So do I. It's so hypnotic. I saw it over a decade ago as someone else's avatar on some chat forum and downloaded it just so I could stare at it.

Whenever I close my eyes, I see geometric animations or repetitive patterns like that - cloverleafs, Celtic knots, platonic solids, the shape of stitching on a baseball, etc. I guess that's one of my stims, and I guess that's why that avatar is so appealing to me. I really need to learn some CG skills so I can bring to life what's behind my eyelids.

 

[Jojo_LB]

Wow, I have a document too! Well, it isn't 50 pages long yet. I'm not sure how long it would be if I print it out now (I keep my notes in Evernote now), but it would be at least 10 pages.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with me when I was a kid ('cause what kid thinks that about themselves, unless made to feel like that by others?). I started writing in journals at the age of 7. So thankfully, I had some stuff to look back on so I could see my thought processes, my interests, hobbies, worries, problems, etc. One of the entries that jumped out at me was something I wrote as an 11-year old in early 1994. I don't have it on me right now, but it went something like, "I don't know why everyone gets mad at me all the time. They say I'm lazy and do nothing and I have a bad attitude. I am trying to change."

It was around then I started wondering if there was something wrong with me.

Now, I think I'm pretty cool and interesting. I like me (not the unmedicated me though, I don't think anyone would like that person very much ).