Telling truth is bad??

[MildredHubble]

It's not always perceived to be a negative thing, but sometimes truths can be uncomfortable, inconvenient or cause a person emotional pain. People generally want to avoid causing emotional distress which may lead to conflict, and so hide the truth, or otherwise make up a white lie. People who tell the truth may be seen as insensitive for this reason. Telling someone that they are too 'big' for their new pair of jeans may be a fact, and some might just laugh it off and not be offended. Others, however, may have self-esteem issues or recognise the fact, but are in denial, and may get angry or upset at this uncomfortable (literally!) truth.

I think lots of us have learned to factor in the problem of ego verses the truth. I think the "small stuff" we can understand. It's the other things as @Au Naturel said, sometimes what appears as a solicitation for truth is actually just a rhetorical flourish. One that actually wants an explanation so that it can be dismissed. IT'S A TRAP!!!

I suspect the psychology is that in some situations you are obliged to respond to a question and when you do they respond angrily to make you feel like you were being dishonest.

It happened a lot at school when I was a kid. I would make some error and be interrogated by some cruel teacher. I would, in good faith, try to explain myself when questioned but then my truthful responses were interpreted as somehow rude and defiant.

It isn't logical. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a banana split and when they bring you a banana split, explode in rage at the waiter because it's not steak.

If there is some signal that would indicate when the truth is being solicited and when it's not I don't perceive it.

To me, if I ask for a banana split at a restaurant, I can expect nothing other than a banana split. If someone asks for a banana split, I don't assume they want steak. It's unequivocal. There's no information in the phrase "one banana split please." That indicates a preference for steak.

 

[MildredHubble]

 

[Hypnalis]

The Twitter example (post 26) was almost certainly a basic NT/ND misunderstanding. In my native culture, a statement framed as that kind of question is common in some circumstances.

In general, both "sides" underestimate how much of normal (NT) speech isn't literally accurate. And OFC to ND's that part of NT speech isn't true at all.

I don't believe it's possible for NT's to change that.

I'm certain that ND's could learn to interpret NT speech reasonably well ... but there are effectively no teachers, and TBH I don't think there are any willing students either.

Maybe it's not the biggest problem for NDs, but IMO it would be relatively easy to address if anyone actually wanted to.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

One should always tell the truth.

But hearts are easily broken. The effects of a single word can last decades.

So use tact. Or refrain from saying at all.

Above all else, be kind.

 

[foliodoe]

LOL! Then why the @#$%! did you ask?

A "reason" is an explanation of the logic and methodology behind your action. An "excuse" is when your boss is angry and doesn't care. Asking was purely rhetorical.

Reasons are explanations. Excuses might also be explanations, but the intention of an excuse is to pardon the wrongdoings of the person giving the excuse. I have run into this a lot... Like you say, whether it's considered an excuse or an explanation depends almost entirely on the mood of the person receiving it lol

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Having an NT wife this the greatest source of conflict on occasion, we are not on the same wavelength she tries to interpret what I am saving though her NT lens, white lies, assume I am trying to twist the facts.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Not B.S.ing people gives real advantages, when working they cut you slack, minimal supervision. one of the reasons I see being one of us is a gift. it's only a liability if you have comorbidities, I have no comorbidity and I suspect a majority of us also don't. Just living our lives. unlikely to join a site like this.

 

[Au Naturel]

Reasons are explanations. Excuses might also be explanations, but the intention of an excuse is to pardon the wrongdoings of the person giving the excuse. I have run into this a lot... Like you say, whether it's considered an excuse or an explanation depends almost entirely on the mood of the person receiving it lol

"Excuse" can be a verb as well. Like an excused absence. To be excused from some duty one might be required to perform. Or following a burp with "Excuse me!"

 

[Owliet]

My mom appreciated that I told her — I guess it depends on the situation.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

They are having issues with virus other than covid up here, medical professionals, want to reintroduce masking nobody is taking them seriously. this is what happens when you lie tie yourself into pretzels. The truth matters.

 

[Hypnalis]

My mom appreciated that I told her — I guess it depends on the situation.

The situation you described in your first couple of posts wasn't about truth/falsehoods.

It was a "protocol failure". I can't unwrap it for you, because you missed too much of it, but I can describe the source of the complexity:

1. Your sister is trying to manage the relationship between her boyfriend and her family. She wants it to be, at worst, neutral.
2. Your parents want the same result as your sister.
3. Something about last years visit didn't work for your sisters boyfriend, and he didn't want to come this year.
4. You're part of the puzzle too, but it's not possible for me to figure out your role

There have been various incomplete exchanges of information between the active participants, with the collective objective of moving forward without anyone being permanently offended, because that could stop the BF <-> family relationship being neutral.
(BTW there's an NT/ND difference in perception in cases like this - I suggest you just take my word for it.)

You moved some information between two parties that was not intended to be shared between them. There must have been some good reason for not sharing, but your posts don't make it 100% clear.

The "truth value" of that information doesn't matter as such. The "protocol" is about collectively managing how much of the truth is shared with whom. The negative consequence was due to sharing too much accurate information with the wrong person.

FWIW, my guess is that everyone made errors of one kind or another here (sister, sister's BF, parents, you), but there's no way to know, and it doesn't matter.

For you, if you got this far in my post, there's a genuine opportunity here for a "learning experience".
Not something that can be done by an outsider like me though, so it would be a bigger step than it seems at first glance.

 

[Owliet]

The situation you described in your first couple of posts wasn't about truth/falsehoods.

It was a "protocol failure". I can't unwrap it for you, because you missed too much of it, but I can describe the source of the complexity:

1. Your sister is trying to manage the relationship between her boyfriend and her family. She wants it to be, at worst, neutral.
2. Your parents want the same result as your sister.
3. Something about last years visit didn't work for your sisters boyfriend, and he didn't want to come this year.
4. You're part of the puzzle too, but it's not possible for me to figure out your role

There have been various incomplete exchanges of information between the active participants, with the collective objective of moving forward without anyone being permanently offended, because that could stop the BF <-> family relationship being neutral.
(BTW there's an NT/ND difference in perception in cases like this - I suggest you just take my word for it.)

You moved some information between two parties that was not intended to be shared between them. There must have been some good reason for not sharing, but your posts don't make it 100% clear.

The "truth value" of that information doesn't matter as such. The "protocol" is about collectively managing how much of the truth is shared with whom. The negative consequence was due to sharing too much accurate information with the wrong person.

FWIW, my guess is that everyone made errors of one kind or another here (sister, sister's BF, parents, you), but there's no way to know, and it doesn't matter.

For you, if you got this far in my post, there's a genuine opportunity here for a "learning experience".
Not something that can be done by an outsider like me though, so it would be a bigger step than it seems at first glance.

I get this is trying to provide some sort of helpful suggestions…but… I am ASD, I WILL miss out on a lot of situations that are going to be occasionally the “protocol failure”.

It is ultimately about telling the truth and not telling the truth. My mom was lied to by my sister. Nothing bad happened for my sibling’s boyfriend to have a bad time — and i dont very much care if he didnt want to come or not. I do care that my sister lied to my mom but told me the truth of what he said to her. However, i have learned that gaining the understanding Was that i should not have bothered to say anything because it was negative effect but mom was happy that i told her because of how upsetting it was to her that my sister was lying to her. Even for the good reasons, I think sometimes it is better to tell someone the truth otherwise it will hurt them either way But I do realize that there is a time and balance to do so — my dad had a talk with me about where it went wrong…

I don’t know what FWIW means..

 

[Forest Cat]

FWIW, my guess is that everyone made errors of one kind or another here (sister, sister's BF, parents, you), but there's no way to know, and it doesn't matter.

If it was me I would blame the boyfriend. And then I would tell my sister to stop being annoying and stop creating problems. I don't think Owliet or her parents made any errors, they were just unlucky getting that boyfriend into the family.

 

[Outdated]

I don’t know what FWIW means..

For What It's Worth.

 

[Owliet]

If it was me I would blame the boyfriend. Because he is an ass. And then I would tell my sister to stop being annoying and stop creating problems. I don't think Owliet or her parents made any errors, they were just unlucky getting that ass boyfriend into the family.

My sister has a history of lying (remember that time I caught her recently lying) , her boyfriend, is okay but there’s a few flags there that makes him a strange (like having an argument and blaming my sister for a broken glass that he made) And a weird expectation that she looks female all the time (with makeup, nails, dresses) Which she never really did before meeting him.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Owliet

I write that post in the hope that you'd see that it wasn't about truth as such.

In social interaction, where relationships matter, rationing the truth is often a good thing.
It follows that telling the whole truth isn't always the right thing to do.

NT's have a permanently active filter/analysis loop for this.

ND's can do it too, but it has to be learned, and there are no classes.
OTOH it's easy enough to get "less bad" at stuff like this.

 

[Owliet]

@Owliet

I write that post in the hope that you'd see that it wasn't about truth as such.

In social interaction, where relationships matter, rationing the truth is often a good thing.
It follows that telling the whole truth isn't always the right thing to do.

NT's have a permanently active filter/analysis loop for this.

ND's can do it too, but it has to be learned, and there are no classes.
OTOH it's easy enough to get "less bad" at stuff like this.

I understand. I guess I will have to put this as another thing to learn from and develop.

 

[Hypnalis]

If it was me I would blame the boyfriend. Because he is an ass. And then I would tell my sister to stop being annoying and stop creating problems. I don't think Owliet or her parents made any errors, they were just unlucky getting that ass boyfriend into the family.

I don't think it's productive to defend my position, but I'm quite confident (80%) that all five of the participants contributed significantly to the drama.

I'm similarly confident that each one of them made a different mistake, which isn't common.

 

[Hypnalis]

I understand. I guess I will have to put this as another thing to learn from and develop.

If you're interested I can help a little.
But it's not likely to be a simple process, and you'll have to talk to at least one family member.

 

[Forest Cat]

I don't think it's productive to defend my position, but I'm quite confident (80%) that all five of the participants contributed significantly to the drama.

I'm similarly confident that each one of them made a different mistake, which isn't common.

Maybe it's just me but I see the boyfriend as the root of the problems. Bad manners and some other things. I would blame the sister a little too, but not the others. All they did was being kind enough to invite that guy to spend Christmas with them.