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The Autistic "Rationale-dependant" thinking style; thoughts and personal experiences?

I wonder if you'd consider this "real science" as it also stands outside the (in my words) ontological "gatekeepers" of conventional, accepted mainstream scientific "dogma" and "doctrine".

I don't hide behind other's who decide what is "real science" and what isn't. I assess for myself. I employ critical analysis to see what adds up, and plenty of "conventional science" doesn't, to me. But these guys do.

Nassim is an interesting guy. Perhaps he's more like me, in that he had quote unquote "spiritual" experiences prior to getting fascinated by physics and mathematics and such, but, I advise people to do their own due diligence, rather than constantly being told what to believe. It's the only way to ensure you are creating a truly coherent, "big picture" rather than just accepting the word of those who put themselves up as authorities. That is no different from the old religious ontological gatekeepers dictating what people should believe and not believe.

 
About the only time I'm not "rationale-dependent" is if I decide something is aesthetic, which does happen sometimes, but not that often. It happens more trying to improve at music, though, which I hadn't focused on that much before.
 
@Neri
As I said before, we should probably just drop this. Or you can make it clear the material isn't about using science to prove the existence of something outside the domain of science.

Reminder don't need "everything" to be scientifically proven (see earlier posts).
What I'm reacting to is claiming a scientific basis for something spiritual where one does not exist.

In fact, if physics ever gets close to a way to prove e.g. the existence of the christian god, I'll probably hear about it well before you do.
This is because it would be very very big news in the physics community, because it would require multiple major breakthroughs. It would come up in Sabine Hossenfelder's youtube channel within a week.

In the meantime, I know there's nothing to support any "physics proves the existence of something previously thought to be supernatural" claim. I don't spend time looking at such claims because they never pan out.
 
I'm not understanding. I'm not sure of how that speaks to anything I've put forward?

We aren't having any kind of "connecting" .@Hypnalis, I agree.

But this thread isn't about you.

It's about things that some people might be interested in though.

That's ok if you're not one of them.

I'm still going to share information and my perspective.
Some people might find something I've presented, here, fascinating. I know I do.

I don't prescribe to any kind of neat "science" and "religion" separation. That's what I've been trying to communicate here in a variety of ways and means.

But I'm not one to disrespect each to one's own.

You obviously see thinks differently and that's ok.

"You do you" as my oldest daughter once said to me.

Sometimes people are just on very different pages, and that's ok, in my book.
 
I've been gradually growing in two main exceptions to "rationale-dependence", and those are faith and musical studies.
 
Hypnalis said:
It would come up in Sabine Hossenfelder's youtube channel within a week.
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:smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley::smiley:

Hypnalis said:
In the meantime, I know there's nothing to support any "physics proves the existence of something previously thought to be supernatural" claim.
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That just means that something thought to be supernatural actually wasn't. Some people used to think lightning came from Zeus or maybe Thor.

Clarke's Three Laws:

  • When a distinguished but elderly scientist states something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
  • The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.
  • Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
 
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To me, meaning-making, is what we are discussing here. Spirituality and Science are both about meaning making and seeking "Truth" and I don't see any reason to view them in a different light. It's about asking questions and observing, experiencing and noting answers, as they come. You don't discount your own experience. You do the opposite, you observe evidence for yourself, but you also realise that we can be blinded by our own biases and we are highly subjective creatures. All of us. We shouldn't be intellectual children our whole lives, looking up to other's to give us all the answers, we should keep asking questions and not be satisfied until the answers make sense, and fit together with other coherent and sensical data and we shouldn't just ignore things that don't fit our belief system, because that is ignorance, not science, and it's not respectful, which is what ethics and practical social skills deem useful and cogent, even if you think "Spirituality" or "Metaphysics" is bunk. Respect means to see someone, and to appreciate their value, even if they see things very differently from you. Religion, when its being legit and not pure politics and social engineering, is designed to teach respect. It's designed to help us deepen our relationship with the inner reality of existence and because we all crave creation myths. For some, miracles are impossible (except the one where everything that is, was created from nothing), for other's, life itself is a miracle, so why would other miracles be impossible?
 
Neri said:
To me, meaning-making, is what we are discussing here. Spirituality and Science are both about meaning making and seeking "Truth" and I don't see any reason to view them in a different light. It's about asking questions and observing, experiencing and noting answers, as they come. You don't discount your own experience. You do the opposite, you observe evidence for yourself, but you also realise that we can be blinded by our own biases and we are highly subjective creatures. All of us. We shouldn't be intellectual children our whole lives, looking up to other's to give us all the answers, we should keep asking questions and not be satisfied until the answers make sense, and fit together with other coherent and sensical data and we shouldn't just ignore things that don't fit our belief system, because that is ignorance, not science, and it's not respectful, which is what ethics and practical social skills deem useful and cogent, even if you think "Spirituality" or "Metaphysics" is bunk. Respect means to see someone, and to appreciate their value, even if they see things very differently from you. Religion, when its being legit and not pure politics and social engineering, is designed to teach respect. It's designed to help us deepen our relationship with the inner reality of existence and because we all crave creation myths. For some, miracles are impossible (except the one where everything that is, was created from nothing), for other's, life itself is a miracle, so why would other miracles be impossible?
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The main thing I relate to here is respect for other beings. The whole of the law is held in the commandment to love each other. Exactly, and I hope there are lots of other faiths that agree, since the Golden Rule is pervasive, too.

Faith and science are very different. As you approach faith, you are growing in a new standard which is in addition to science, and which will eventually replace it. Faith is a mustard seed, and when it's very small, you rely on the other things you know. You can have confidence that if you're not right in the present moment, you will become right in the procession of steps along the walk of faith. That's why it's a walk. Bigger faith means fewer steps to the truth. Pretty you soon, you feel like you can see and talk to God, and that's a pretty short walk for any given purpose.
 
Levitator said:
The main thing I relate to here is respect for other beings. The whole of the law is held in the commandment to love each other. Exactly, and I hope there are lots of other faiths that agree, since the Golden Rule is pervasive, too.

Faith and science are very different. As you approach faith, you are growing in a new standard which is in addition to science, and which will eventually replace it. Faith is a mustard seed, and when it's very small, you rely on the other things you know. You can have confidence that if you're not right in the present moment, you will become right in the procession of steps along the walk of faith. That's why it's a walk. Bigger faith means fewer steps to the truth. Pretty you soon, you feel like you can see and talk to God, and that's a pretty short walk for any given purpose.
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I love and welcome a diversity of opinion, as long as it shows respect to other's for their's. I, personally, think faith is evident in all belief systems. Some people put a lot of faith in doctors, some in preachers, some in mainstream media, some in their own powers of reasoning. I think faith is what we need to have to be able to be open to learning more; faith that answers will be rendered; " Ask and you shall receive" is a basic principle that needs to be understood, in order to keep growing and developing, as a person and as a soul.

We are, at least, many of us, are, traumatised and having to figure out how to move forward, despite how traumatizing life can be. Some people learn to have faith in themselves, as the source of understanding and love and care, even if they haven't had it modeled much, and that is just as significant. Faith, in my book, is an essential thing, but it can look very different, person to person. Beliefs are inbued with faith, and beliefs are the building blocks of how we perceive our reality, what we filter in, and out, and how we grow, or stagnate, however we proceed, we all have beliefs that, either support, or hinder us, in living a full and growthful life.
My favourite quote in the Bible? 'The Truth Shall set you free". Which is what Science and religion claim to represent, it is up to us to decide which "Truths" are beneficial. This is applying a Platonic lens "An unexamined Life is not worth living" but that Bible quote "The Truth Shall Set You Free" implies that there is Truth and there is Faslehood and genuine Truths are Freeing and helpful. Some may be very shocking and disorienting, but, it is better to know where the Tiger lurks, than to become it's prey. I do not at all prescribe to "ignorance is bliss". Ignorance is being ignorant and is the root of most of the worlds terrors and horrors. The tiger still eats the unaware jungle walker.
 
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Neri said:
I love and welcome a diversity of opinion, as long as it shows respect to other's for their's. I, personally, think faith is evident in all belief systems. Some people put a lot of faith in doctors, some in preachers, some in mainstream media, some in their own powers of reasoning. I think faith is what we need to have to be able to be open to learning more; faith that answers will be rendered; " Ask and you shall receive" is a basic principle that needs to be understood, in order to keep growing and developing, as a person and as a soul.

We are, at least, many of us, are, traumatised and having to figure out how to move forward, despite how traumatizing life can be. Some people learn to have faith in themselves, as the source of understanding and love and care, even if they haven't had it modeled much, and that is just as significant. Faith, in my book, is an essential thing, but it can look very different, person to person. Beliefs are inbued with faith, and beliefs are the building blocks of how we perceive our reality, what we filter in, and out, and how we grow, or stagnate, however we proceed, we all have beliefs that, either support, or hinder us, in living a full and growthful life.
My favourite quote in the Bible? 'The Truth Shall set you free". Which is what Science and religion claim to represent, it is up to us to decide which "Truths" are beneficial. This is applying a Platonic lens "An unexamined Life is not worth living" but that Bible quote "The Truth Shall Set You Free" implies that there is Truth and there is Faslehood and genuine Truths are Freeing and helpful. Some may be very shocking and disorienting, but, it is better to know where the Tiger lurks, than to become it's prey. I do not at all prescribe to "ignorance is bliss". Ignorance is being ignorant and is the root of most of the worlds terrors and horrors. The tiger still eats the unaware jungle walker.
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It's true that people put faith in a lot of different things, but I would suggest that "faith" is heavily redefined depending on what it is that you are placing it in. Faith in God is not the same as faith in science, or as faith in a logical or axiomatic system. Faith in God is not a system just like how your trust that I'm a sentient being is not derived from a system. I converse like a sentient being, so you trust that I am. Now, if you trust that your life is a conversation with God, and you understand that the totality of your life is a medium in which only God can write, as distinct from writing in a notebook, or something, then you are getting close to what faith is. You recognize it's a conversation, and that only an all-powerful being can write you love notes with the totality of your existence or experience.
 
Levitator said:
It's true that people put faith in a lot of different things, but I would suggest that "faith" is heavily redefined depending on what it is that you are placing it in. Faith in God is not the same as faith in science, or as faith in a logical or axiomatic system. Faith in God is not a system just like how your trust that I'm a sentient being is not derived from a system. I converse like a sentient being, so you trust that I am. Now, if you trust that your life is a conversation with God, and you understand that the totality of your life is a medium in which only God can write, as distinct from writing in a notebook, or something, then you are getting close to what faith is. You recognize it's a conversation, and that only an all-powerful being can write you love notes with the totality of your existence or experience.
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I don't see "God" as outside of myself and I don't see God as any kind of concept. God isn't confined to the Bible or any text. God isn't outside of "Science". "Nothing is outside of God's Loving Light". Neri, 2024.
 
Neri said:
I don't see "God" as outside of myself and I don't see God as any kind of concept. God isn't confined to the Bible or any text. God isn't outside of "Science". "Nothing is outside of God's Loving Light". Neri, 2024.
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Well, I think that's the basic issue; "I don't see God as outside myself". It has to be your time to find him, and all anyone else can do for you is provide you with encouragement and inspiration to notice him. Think of God as someone who is always desperately trying to reach you but you don't know that he can talk because his mannerisms and expressions are different from yours. Sound familiar?
 
Levitator said:
Well, I think that's the basic issue; "I don't see God as outside myself". It has to be your time to find him, and all anyone else can do for you is provide you with encouragement and inspiration to notice him. Think of God as someone who is always desperately trying to reach you but you don't know that he can talk because his mannerisms and expressions are different from yours. Sound familiar?
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OK, so we're talking theology here, yeah?
Because this is a thread about "Logic", and in particulary, Autistic experiences and perspective on Logic, and yet, lets face it, we are emotional creatures and that can't be left out of the "Logical" equation, and I've never really, fully qualified by what I meant by "Logic" and given that some autistic folk are, clearing more comfortable and even incredibly ABLE when it comes to "Logic" in all it's iterations, and you can look etymologically at the word, the roots of where it's come from and where it's it applied, across a broad spectrum of "ologies" and expressly, trace it back to the Greek translation from The Hebrew, in Genesis "In The Beginning was the Word (Logos) and the word was God and the word was with God" ...I could be paraphrasing there, but I'm pretty sure I got, at least, the sentiment right.
So qualifying "Logic" I am talking about the Socratic inspired discourse on Critical reasoning AND I'm talking bodies of growing, dynamic, progressive (in the true sense of the word, not so much modern politicized ideas about progressive) ever evolving and developing discourse(s) in a real and inquiring exchange of ideas that bring both parties into a more enlightened 'place'/mind space.
So Theology is included, so let's get real shall we?
You and I, I can tell, are NOT the super logical Spocky type autistic people yeah? And even though I agree with you in some ways about the clinical and pathologizing that's NOT healthy or empowering (That's how I'm going to summarize on your anti-clinical science rants) I thank that your type of "Neurospice" shall we say (hope that's not offense to you, I mean no offense and I'm certainly NOT trying to hurt you feeling, in any way, I can see that you've gone through SO MUCH and I in no way intend to add to your suffering) so Neurospice, like myself, you have REEEEEEEaaaaalllllly struggled with what the clinically minded, again, I don't want to upset you, but I like this word, it means what I say so ~ called "disregulated emotion"s.
And This massage you've delivered to me here, my brother ? Is meant for you're own ears.
Because I've been hearing "God" very, very loudly, my whole life. That's not to say, that I haven't gotten lost, and forgot and was just generally wayward and stubborn and lazy and overwhelmed, but that's been SO LOUD, and it's gotten me a long way, so far and will continue on forever, never ever ending and that is all most beautiful and good, with me.
 
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And again, my dear friend. I also hope that I don't sound super pompous and sanctimonious, because, it's hard to convey a lot, in just writing it, which was another thing I appreciate about Socrates, who, ironically, even though we know he didn't think enough meaning could be conveyed through the written word, we only know this because Plato bothered to write it down.

But I was reflecting on this thread and what you'd written @Levitator, and I was thinking about different iterations of Spectrum type people who have a few small, but significant, similarities,( and even that, is highly debatable) and I've noticed that some people are able to disconnect with emotions notably (alexithymic type of thing) and have incredible frontal lobe reasoning abilities but lack certain emotionally intelligent aptitudes, and some of us, are the intense feelers who often experience negative emotions blown up, so to speak (is this just autism here, or the added ADHD that some of us demonstrate?) and emotions are always present, because that is being a Human, but differing degrees of intensity and connection, disconnection, projection,, all of which affect the way we "Logic"
So when you say.
Levitator said:
Well, I think that's the basic issue; "I don't see God as outside myself". It has to be your time to find him, and all anyone else can do for you is provide you with encouragement and inspiration to notice him. Think of God as someone who is always desperately trying to reach you but you don't know that he can talk because his mannerisms and expressions are different from yours. Sound familiar?
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Let me analyze this, from my perspective.

You have said "That's the basic issue" quote me. How can one find God but from within "The Kingdom of Heaven is Within", you have it write there! "It has to be you time to find him"'. YES, IT DOES.
How do you experience "Him" and by 'Him" do you mean Yeshua/Jesus/ Issa, that guy? or "The Holy Spirit?, Or Father Spirit or The I AM THAT I AM, exactly YOU are you referring to here?
Next, you talk about "encouragement" YES. We do all owe it to "Him" and I'm gonna assume you mean Yeshua/Jesus?Issa etc THAT guy, because THAT is a VERY encouraging, patient, kind, courageous, delightful, warm, comforting, lovleyness, just loveliness. energy and a Being, I do believe so OF COURSE encouragement is part of that/Him!!!!!
A recent thing I heard attributed to "Him' was Him saying "Everyone is where they are supposed to be" and that is a very encouraging notion. And I have always (except those dark time, but, actually even then, and, come to think of it ESPECIALLY then) been living in the inspirational way of living, it is my joy and it is a personal code. not so much as a kid, I was a very scared little bean, but, I had powerful dreams and visitations of Angelic nature from very young, around 5 to 7. I could talk more but I'm inclined to just yet.
Now I don't necessarily prescribe to the notion of "God" being "desperate" no, not so much, for me, God, being infinite and beyond time, doesn't have to worry, because "God" can see how future and know how things are going to turn out, so no, not desperate, in my book.
These are the qualities I experience. HUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEE Love, the biggest Love you can imaginem but waaaaaaayyyyyy bigger that even that. Basically TOO big for any of us to encompass, and yet some have done better than other's in that respect. Every kind of love, fatherly love, motherly love, friend love, its inside everylove. And "Love is patient, Love is Kind" Not desperate, not really. Desperation implies fear, and while fear isn/t outside of God's Loving Light, it's not basking in it either.
 
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I have felt God in some very strange situations, and I don't think I'm ever going to see an end to how that plays out."Mannerisms" hmmmm. That's very strange, to me. Once when I thought I might have been in The Presence, I was in all light, everything was light, there was nothing other than Light and I thought, in my mind, at the time " Is This what it's like to meet God? and then I thought " I"m not ready for that" and what I then perceived as God saying and reminding me of myself, my life, my body, my identity, because, I'd forgot all that, in the shock of "Meeting God" and I was told, in the most kindly and powerful way, that "That was the life that I had dreamed up, before I was born', or that was discussed, perhaps, and I'd agreed to it, AND it was conferred to me, that " It was perfect". Now, it was a looooooonnng way from perfect. At the time, I lived in a, very small, shack, basically, hardly a cabin, in a valley, deep in a valley with, very difficult access, no phone, no power, no car, that kind of lifestyle, not even solar panels, just very, very basic and "Poor"With 5 young children and a very troubled home situation. So anyway, that struck me as strange, because my life was anything but perfect, but , but, it did change my perspective on my life in a major way. I could talk about many other "Gody" experiences I've had, but no, not for now. You get the picture, I hope.
THis very experience is part of a bigger experience and many other experiences too, but it;s 2.25 in the morning and God/Logos, is telling me, "YOU are tired. You need sleep, Go to bed now. I love you"
 
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available to my family members if interested. could very easily obtain undergraduate education. in science and mathematics or music.
 
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