The Invention of Lying

[Sabrina]

Hi! I watched a movie that I think all aspies should see. It's called The Invention of Lying.

It takes place in a fantasy world where everybody tells the truth, and suddenly a guy realizes that he can lie, and that it is very powerful!

I am 47-yrs-old, but only up until I was 40 I realized that everybody lies everyday, not just bad people, not just people that you don't know, or people telling compassionate white lies, no, even the people that are closer to you!

I have a hard time lying, even today, every time I tell a lie I feel I'm killing a white bunny, haha. Anyway, lying is powerful and it can improve your social relations.

For example, I don't feel like driving to see a friend today, because I don't want to spend gas for that (my finances are not great) but, instead of telling him that, which might cause him being offended and take some kind of reactive action in the future against me, I'll just tell him that I have a stomach ache.

So, there, I bestow upon you the power of lying, hehe.

 

[SimonSays]

I don't feel like driving to see a friend today, because I don't want to spend gas for that (my finances are not great) but, instead of telling him that, which might cause him being offended and take some kind of reactive action in the future against me, I'll just tell him that I have a stomach ache.

But why would a friend be offended if you're short of money? He might even offer to give you gas money. Either way, a friend understands. He doesn't need to be deceived out of fear of an unfriendly reaction.

 

[watersprite]

It’s pretty overwhelming to attempt to figure out lies.

Maybe someone here knows a lot about the paychology of lies.

Did you get any insights from the movie?

 

[Johann]

Hi Sabrina

everybody lies everyday

This categorical proposition is simply not true.

Anyway, lying is powerful and it can improve your social relations.

It can also at the extreme be the reason why ones social relations are non-existent.

For example, I don't feel like driving to see a friend today, because I don't want to spend gas for that (my finances are not great) but, instead of telling him that, which might cause him being offended and take some kind of reactive action in the future against me, I'll just tell him that I have a stomach ache.

Both telling the truth and telling a lie come with a cost as does everything else in life. Are you comfortable with your relationship with your friend or any relationship being based upon deception? Either some large degree or small degree. Are you okay with your true feelings not reaching this person, to some large or small degree, which shields them from the ability to accept you for yourself, love you, understand you, etc. One can only accept one based upon the proportion that one knows and perceives one in reality. To lie, an illusion of self is presented as a result of one's self-delusion. Do the costs of lying outweigh the costs of truth?

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I love that movie, made all the better from Gervais' deadpan delivery. I think that "normal" people in social situations, especially those having an agenda, i.e. getting laid, lie all the time, if not by commission, at least by omission. And, aren't social cues, through body language, entirely composed of lies and used by manipulative people?

But then, I used to be dishonest with myself for the longest time by being a Mr. Brightside, thinking that the social difficulties I was experiencing would somehow allow me to be a better person - a lie that did me real damage.

 

[Sherlock77]

A very common characteristic of Aspie's

One thing I've learned, always take everything you hear with a grain of salt

There is even an art form to storytelling, I have been to what are called Story Slams, professionals and amateurs who spin tales, they say that the stories have to be mostly true, with some room for a tall tale or two...

 

[unperson]

I used to be 'honest to a fault'. Took me until about 40 to realise I had to start lying too. There's a lot of components to lying I simply didn't have when young.

 

[Kevin1968]

I find lying difficult too, often an issue when I find a mistake made by one of my colleagues and at this stage I know I shouldn't get them into trouble.

 

[Sherlock77]

But also in my mind, honesty is one of the best traits Aspie's have, it is something to be valued... Some lies can come back to haunt you, when the full truth comes out...

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Hi Sabrina

This categorical proposition is simply not true.

It can also at the extreme be the reason why ones social relations are non-existent.



Both telling the truth and telling a lie come with a cost as does everything else in life. Are you comfortable with your relationship with your friend or any relationship being based upon deception? Either some large degree or small degree. Are you okay with your true feelings not reaching this person, to some large or small degree, which shields them from the ability to accept you for yourself, love you, understand you, etc. One can only accept one based upon the proportion that one knows and perceives one in reality. To lie, an illusion of self is presented as a result of one's self-delusion. Do the costs of lying outweigh the costs of truth?

I wish I had learned this much earlier. Lying to myself made me less able to communicate appropriately, and I now think that had I opened up I could have received appropriate guidance.

 

[SimonSays]

"and the truth will set you free"

 

[Varzar]

For example, I don't feel like driving to see a friend today, because I don't want to spend gas for that (my finances are not great) but, instead of telling him that, which might cause him being offended and take some kind of reactive action in the future against me, I'll just tell him that I have a stomach ache.

A friend should be able to understand that you don't have the money for gas, or even that you just don't feel like driving that day.
A friend would not be offended by you looking out for your finances.
A friend would not take retaliative action against you for a perceived slight.

If you were my friend, and you lied to me about something like that and I found out about it, it would probably be the beginning of the end of that friendship. Why? Cause you're lying for no reason, where the truth would have been just as acceptable a reason as the lie. It would make me wonder how much other stuff you lie about if you feel the need to lie about mundane stuff like that.

I get lying on rare occasion to spare someone's feelings. This doesn't seem like one of those cases.
If you have friends that you feel wouldn't accept your honest reasoning, you need better friends.

 

[watersprite]

If it were possible I’d like to listen to Mark Twain discuss lying with Shakespeare.

 

[Aspychata]

The problem is because we feel so much we can't muck thru all of our truths because we are constantly evolving and reassessing our truths. So we maybe accused of a lie when really that's how we felt at the time.

 

[Judge]

Lying is probably the most common and frequent way any human can manifest their own self interest.

In a broad spectrum of degrees...from a "white lie" to a big lie". Just another indicator of how we are not only a predatory species, but at times quite a manipulative one as well.

Yet is this an inherently negative trait? Not necessarily. It depends upon one's motives, which can be good or bad. Where at times the truth is not a desirable thing for one, or the other or even at times all parties concerned. Something that most certainly differentiates us from the animal kingdom.

I'm probably channeling Niccolò Machiavelli.

 

[Sabrina]

But why would a friend be offended if you're short of money? He might even offer to give you gas money. Either way, a friend understands. He doesn't need to be deceived out of fear of an unfriendly reaction.

Because that person knows that I have money for other things.

 

[Sabrina]

Hi Sabrina

This categorical proposition is simply not true.

It can also at the extreme be the reason why ones social relations are non-existent.



Both telling the truth and telling a lie come with a cost as does everything else in life. Are you comfortable with your relationship with your friend or any relationship being based upon deception? Either some large degree or small degree. Are you okay with your true feelings not reaching this person, to some large or small degree, which shields them from the ability to accept you for yourself, love you, understand you, etc. One can only accept one based upon the proportion that one knows and perceives one in reality. To lie, an illusion of self is presented as a result of one's self-delusion. Do the costs of lying outweigh the costs of truth?

It is true ...

"The study, published in the journal's June issue, found that 60 percent of people lied at least once during a 10-minute conversation and told an average of two to three lies. "



UMass researcher finds most people lie in everyday conversation

 

[SimonSays]

It is true ...

"The study, published in the journal's June issue, found that 60 percent of people lied at least once during a 10-minute conversation and told an average of two to three lies. "

Of the small group of people they sampled.

 

[Sabrina]

It’s pretty overwhelming to attempt to figure out lies.

Maybe someone here knows a lot about the paychology of lies.

Did you get any insights from the movie?

Yes, it reminded me that my default mode of honesty is not the default mode of everybody, and that a lie can make my life easier BIG TIME, actually, not only my life, but other people's lives too.

I refer to small lies, not big lies.

One of the reasons why I suck at team work is because of that. I could say once every so often "ok, you know better, let's do it your way" (when it's a lie) to a boss, but it's impossible that I can do that all the time, not even half of the time.

That's the kind of lies that I refer to, mostly.

 

[Sabrina]

"and the truth will set you free"

Yes, I agree. I also love the quote of the movie Into the Wild: "Give me truth."

I refer only to small lies.

Big lies can be devastating, like what happened in the story of the movie that I just mentioned, or like in my own marriage (I'm divorced).

He said to me "I never cheated on you" and I answered "who cares? You lied to my face saying that you loved me for years, but it was a lie, and I took many decisions in my life based on that, so my whole life, for years, was a lie, because it was the consequence of that lie".

That is a BIG lie. I'm not talking about that.