The Invention of Lying

[Johann]

The title of the article that you listed as evidence in support of your claim negates it. What i mean by that is simply "most people" isnt "all people". However, it looks like an interesting article to read. Thanks Sabrina.

It is true ...

"The study, published in the journal's June issue, found that 60 percent of people lied at least once during a 10-minute conversation and told an average of two to three lies. "



UMass researcher finds most people lie in everyday conversation

 

[SimonSays]

I refer only to small lies.

Trouble is...how do you decide what is a small lie?
And...if you decide it is ok to lie because it is only small, then it becomes easier to lie a little 'bigger' if you should ever feel you need to. It is a slippery slope, depending on your definition of 'small'.

Whereas, wouldn't it make more sense not to lie at all? Then there's nothing to decide about what version of the truth can be revealed. It takes practice not to 'adjust the truth', even a little, and we may never become perfect at it, especially if we've had success telling small lies previously.

The trouble with lies are that you have to remember what was said to whom. I don't want to have to remember.

 

[SimonSays]

I used to lie a lot as a kid. I hated getting in trouble, even though I did things I might get in trouble for. I'd just say whatever I needed to so I wouldn't have to be seen as a disappointment. It didn't aways work, and being caught in a lie was even worse.

If someone asked me if I liked their....whatever. It was easier to say I did even if I didn't. But when I realised this wasn't serving anyone, I found a way to tell the truth that didn't have to make someone feel bad. It felt better to be honest than be afraid of hurting someone, so I would give a constructive truth rather than a negative one.

example...Do you like this dress? Ummm...No, but I quite like the way the blue one looks on you.

People respect an honest opinion, and if they know they will get one, it makes me feel trusted when they ask me.

 

[Finder]

Lying can increase social cohesion. Simon Baron Cohen states that the development of empathy in humans about 70,000 years ago gave us the ability of empathy, which includes manipulating and deceiving others for personally and social gain. About the same time, humans developed how to systematize as well.

 

[ForestGumpett]

I’ve been told I was painfully honest. This is true, heck it’s already got some angry on this forum because I gave an honest opinion.

I’ve never been popular, but that was never a goal it’s more important to me to be honest and real. Maybe I don’t mask, you get what you see.

If you have to lie to be an aspie then no, I’m not one at all. I will tell you the truth when the lie would set me free, I cannot lie.

Am thinking maybe this forum isn’t where I’m suppose to be anyway.

Thank you for your honestly @Sabrina to post this, it is appreciated.

 

[Tom]

I have a hard time lying, even today, every time I tell a lie I feel I'm killing a white bunny, haha. Anyway, lying is powerful and it can improve your social relations.

I liked your white bunny line. But I disagree very much that lying can improve social relations. It might do so for a time, but also plants a kind of land mine that will go off, damaging (or ending) the realtionship when the lie is found out.

There are probably situations where one might choose to lie to protect someone. But ultimately not lying to begin with and explaining protective lies after the fact is probably the best approach to a long term relationship with partner family or friends, and probably even professional contacts, co-workers, etc.

 

[The Pandector]

Hey @Sabrina --

The world is full of liars and they hurt whomever they lie to. It's a fact of life; in the case of your marriage, an especially tragic one. You are a victim of the folly; don't become one of the perpetrators.

There is no real dichotomy between 'big' lies and 'white' ones. It's simply the practice of falsifying reality to avoid having to deal with reality. Wouldn't it be wonderful if what Aspies were known for was telling the truth, if we were the ones pointing the way towards living according to reality instead of trying to invent a fake one? Wouldn't it be wonderful to get to the end of life without ever picking up on lying? Lying is not a life requirement. Not everyone habitually lies. And, like tobacco or cursing, you are not missing out on anything if you don't.

 

[OkRad]

If I tell the truth, people think i am lying. If I lie, people think I am telling the truth. If you are aspie, you understand this. That is why I can only REALLY and truly talk to other Aspies or people i trust.

 

[Aspychata]

I’ve been told I was painfully honest. This is true, heck it’s already got some angry on this forum because I gave an honest opinion.

I’ve never been popular, but that was never a goal it’s more important to me to be honest and real. Maybe I don’t mask, you get what you see.

If you have to lie to be an aspie then no, I’m not one at all. I will tell you the truth when the lie would set me free, I cannot lie.

Am thinking maybe this forum isn’t where I’m suppose to be anyway.

Thank you for your honestly @Sabrina to post this, it is appreciated.

Think you are great here. I enjoy reading your posts.☺

 

[Aspychata]

If I tell the truth, people think i am lying. If I lie, people think I am telling the truth. If you are aspie, you understand this. That is why I can only REALLY and truly talk to other Aspies or people i trust.

Sometimes people can't handle our truths. Nobody can believe what has happened to me in my lifetime, sounds like a weird lie (s). But it doesn't change anything, it's what l went thru.

 

[Sabrina]

But why would a friend be offended if you're short of money? He might even offer to give you gas money. Either way, a friend understands. He doesn't need to be deceived out of fear of an unfriendly reaction.

I'd rather spend my limited money in something else, and it doesn't mean that I don't appreciate him, it's ju

Trouble is...how do you decide what is a small lie?
And...if you decide it is ok to lie because it is only small, then it becomes easier to lie a little 'bigger' if you should ever feel you need to. It is a slippery slope, depending on your definition of 'small'.

Whereas, wouldn't it make more sense not to lie at all? Then there's nothing to decide about what version of the truth can be revealed. It takes practice not to 'adjust the truth', even a little, and we may never become perfect at it, especially if we've had success telling small lies previously.

The trouble with lies are that you have to remember what was said to whom. I don't want to have to remember.

Yes, I get it. I'm not saying "lie all the time", or anything like that, just occasionally. See the movie, and you'll see what a world without lies would be like.

Actually, it would be an ideal aspie world. I would love it, no hidden agendas, no mysterious meaning, up front truths all the time.
But that would not be the actual world where we live right now.

 

[Aspychata]

Think sometimes l fall into half-lies because l am worried about hurting someone's feelings.

Back to the dress question, that dress is okay but you look really great in the purple one. If it's that person's favorite dress, it's kinda of hard to say - you look like a neon spandex mistake from Walmart, are you really sure about this?

So maybe l will cover up a bit just to give the person some dignity. It's more being diplomatic.

Certain people, l can be truthful with, other people can take offence at being blunt, you need to know who you are talking too.

 

[ForestGumpett]

<snip> ...Actually, it would be an ideal aspie world. I would love it, no hidden agendas, no mysterious meaning, up front truths all the time.
But that would not be the actual world where we live right now.

Sabrina, my new friend that world is out there and I’m living it.

Does it work? Oh heck no lol. Nothing works that well when being honest because this is a messed up world (in my part, we refer to it as sinful but don’t want to preach to anyone - either way, it’s messed up and more messed up if your honest).

I LOVE people being up front with me, keeps the confusion down. Only problem I’ve run into is other people not being acceptant because of being honest - people don’t want the truth most of the time they just want to be fluffed up.

I’m sorry you married a jerk that lied. I had one of those a long time ago - sounds like you and I are smart cause we don’t have them now! Heads up, there are good men out there they just hide good! Honesty has worked out brilliantly with my husband of years, we expect that of each other and the marriage works great this way.

(((Big Hug)))

Please give honestly another try, it really can be your friend and those that don’t allow you to be yourself and honest just may not be the kind of friend you deserve.

 

[ForestGumpett]

Think sometimes l fall into half-lies because l am worried about hurting someone's feelings.

What if you get the wrong half? Seriously, what if you guess the completely the wrong color or food or don’t make the correct comment that was expected? This is risky, but so is guessing and I usually guess and get it wrong so nope...no advice just saying I get it lol.

Back to the dress question, that dress is okay but you look really great in the purple one. If it's that person's favorite dress, it's kinda of hard to say - you look like a neon spandex mistake from Walmart, are you really sure about this?

Where I’m from we do it a little bit different, smile real big and say:

“Gosh Sugar, my-oh-my aren’t you something else in that outfit! You will be the life of the party in that... bless your heart!”

This is safe, and you haven’t lied!

Certain people, l can be truthful with, other people can take offence at being blunt, you need to know who you are talking too.

AMEN!! And that still doesn't work. I’m very blunt, and like ppl being blunt with me. I can respect this.

On knowing who your talking too? Never, that will never happen, being so blunt I’ll surly be ostracized

 

[SimonSays]

I love Ricky Gervais. Anything he writes and is in, especially if he directs it too (Afterlife is amazing), and while I liked the film due to Ricky's deadpan and wonderful exasperated performance, there is a flawed premise.

Just because you tell the truth, doesn't mean you have to blurt out whatever may be in your head. You can still be selective, kind, you don't have to be mean.

Take the example in the film where the waiter brings her a cocktail. He tells her he had a sip from it. She just accepts it instead of being outraged. Why would he taste it? Why would he tell her unless she asked him? Why didn't it bother her and she was happy to still drink it?

I know it's only a film, but you began this thread using it as an example of what it would be like if people always told the truth. I wonder if Ricky would write it differently if he was making it today? As I said "Afterlife" is wonderfully observed.

Going into a bank and telling them he had more money in his account and they just give it to him because he must be telling the truth so they made a mistake, is a bit ludicrous. The incident where he tells the cop that his friend isn't drunk is ridiculous, because the breathalyser clearly showed he was. Flawed premise. Great idea though.

I loved the scene with his dying mum when he comforts her by telling her something he doesn't believe about where she'll be going after death.

He only co-wrote the film and didn't direct it, so I wonder if that played its part.

 

[SimonSays]

Back to the dress question, that dress is okay but you look really great in the purple one. If it's that person's favorite dress, it's kinda of hard to say - you look like a neon spandex mistake from Walmart, are you really sure about this?

But that's just because of your opposing definition in this matter.

Remember, you're just giving an opinion. You don't have to say "you look like a neon spandex mistake from Walmart" as that's just a creative example of something that you know would be likely to offend. If you know it's their favourite dress, but you don't happen to like it, they shouldn't be offended if that's what you tell them in an honest way. It's just an opinion. It shouldn't be a problem, and if it is, that's actually their problem.

Spoiler

We don't have to protect people from being offended. Nobody has a right not to be offended. It will actually help them to hear truthful opinions and maybe they'll get used to it.

 

[WildCat]

Dr. House already said it before: everybody lies. This includes people on the spectrum like myself.

The moment everyone decides to tell the unfiltered truth? Now that would be interesting.

 

[SusanLR]

I never understood the lied by omission statement.

I got into a terrible argument once when someone told me I had lied to him.
To my mind, I had not and told him so.
He said I had lied by omission. I didn't even know what that meant.
He had found out something about me he didn't like that I had done. So that was a lie by omission.
My answer was how could I tell him every detail about the 50+ years before he knew me?
That is an impossibility. Would need a hundred years to tell him every detail even if I could remember
the sequence.

The issue was I was seeing another guy at the same time. We were all single.
He called me one evening and ask if I'd like to go for an ice cream sundae and I replied no, not tonight.
I wasn't in the mood for a sundae.
He accepted that and ask nothing else.
Truth was, I had already said yes to going to a movie with the other guy that evening
and of all things, since I declined the sundae, he decided to go to the movie theatre too.
Saw me there with the other guy.
He knew I was going with the other guy. So was just saying no I'm not in the mood for
a sundae tonight not sufficient or was it as he called it, a lie?
It just didn't make sense to me.

I used to have a joke where if I didn't want to answer something I would say:
The secret life of Susan and why she wants it to remain that way.
Of course that is to prevent telling a lie about myself.

Telling a lie to someone else isn't something I try to conjure up.
Bluntness is my problem. I don't think about the finesse of how I say what I think.

 

[harrietjansson]

I am 47-yrs-old, but only up until I was 40 I realized that everybody lies everyday,

People with ASD also lie a lot. AT least the people I've met. Sure, they might ave skipped a white lie or two but that was mainly it.

I have a hard time lying,

Does this mean that you are an honest person or does this mean something else?

 

[harrietjansson]

I got into a terrible argument once when someone told me I had lied to him.
To my mind, I had not and told him so.
He said I had lied by omission. I didn't even know what that meant.

I just love that word. Omission is such a good word. It says so much. "Aspies" are really good at the omission you refered to.