What a mature and thoughtful comment. Thank you so much for your remarkably eloquent contribution to the discussion.
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Universally Physically Attractive People With Aspergers
- Thread starter Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
- Start date
To all who have responded to this thread. Let's all remember a couple of things:
One, some of us on the spectrum are not great with putting our thoughts into words. I count myself in that group. Often I'm trying to say something that I understand on a deep level but it's just too hard to articulate it. So it comes out in the wrong way.
Two, The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy is trying to make an observation or ask a question and although he is saying things that may sound judgemental of women, it is nothing in comparison to the putrid hate speech so often seen these days. It seems to me he is also making observations about Aspie men. His friend, in particular.
Please, let's all be open minded. Nobody is pushing misogyny here. Remember that the observations we make and the opinions we give are all built on the experiences we have had. So if I have had a string of relationships in which I was cheated on, I might proclaim that all guys are led around by their d*cks. Until I experience otherwise. (****this is actually my life story...I did say that, until I met my husband****) The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy has openly told us he has only had one relationship, and has remarked on friends' relationships. That is his experience. Let's not in turn judge him for having limited relationship knowledge.
This thread seems really angry and it's making me feel sad. I had to say something.
You sound very lonely.
What is it you are seeking? A relationship? A way to deal with your loneliness?
One, some of us on the spectrum are not great with putting our thoughts into words. I count myself in that group. Often I'm trying to say something that I understand on a deep level but it's just too hard to articulate it. So it comes out in the wrong way.
Two, The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy is trying to make an observation or ask a question and although he is saying things that may sound judgemental of women, it is nothing in comparison to the putrid hate speech so often seen these days. It seems to me he is also making observations about Aspie men. His friend, in particular.
Please, let's all be open minded. Nobody is pushing misogyny here. Remember that the observations we make and the opinions we give are all built on the experiences we have had. So if I have had a string of relationships in which I was cheated on, I might proclaim that all guys are led around by their d*cks. Until I experience otherwise. (****this is actually my life story...I did say that, until I met my husband****) The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy has openly told us he has only had one relationship, and has remarked on friends' relationships. That is his experience. Let's not in turn judge him for having limited relationship knowledge.
This thread seems really angry and it's making me feel sad. I had to say something.
You sound very lonely.
What is it you are seeking? A relationship? A way to deal with your loneliness?
Datura
Well-Known Member
Well, to respond to the original question, adherance to "universal" beauty standards actually takes a lot of work. Nobody just wakes up and looks like that. It takes a lot of primping and preening, makeup, and the right clothes to look that way. If you aren't sixteen and born with the right genetics you probably also spend a lot of time exercising, watching what you eat, and possibly even having procedures done in order look the way society says you should.
Frankly, I don't think most people on the autism spectrum could be bothered with all of that, partially because grooming tends to be a lower priority, but also because they aren't as susceptible to the same social pressures as an NT. This is only more true the more severe one is on the scale. I mean, if you are a woman with a wash and wear haircut and have a preference for comfortable clothes because of sensory issues you've already been excluded from what the mainstream considers attractive. The likelyhood is you also don't care.
Frankly, I don't think most people on the autism spectrum could be bothered with all of that, partially because grooming tends to be a lower priority, but also because they aren't as susceptible to the same social pressures as an NT. This is only more true the more severe one is on the scale. I mean, if you are a woman with a wash and wear haircut and have a preference for comfortable clothes because of sensory issues you've already been excluded from what the mainstream considers attractive. The likelyhood is you also don't care.
This is a good point. Is attractiveness equal to being polished up?
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
Firstly, if anything is inflammatory then I'd go to the doctor and get some cream prescribed, inflammations are annoying at best and painful at worst
.And now on a less comical note, as has been pointed out in one of my quotes below, yes I could have worded this unintentionally badly (at least for some). All I was trying to say is that whilst there are not doubt many aspie women on the spectrum that are (what I personally consider to be) beautiful, these never seemed to be the ones I was able to meet or seemingly ones that I see any aspie guy friends or family with. Beauty is mostly (though not entirely) subjective and it would help if you tried to understand where I'm coming from and clarify any misconceptions rather than attack me and lambast me as being as bad a person as my often low self-esteem (at least around women) would have me believe i am. When I said things like 'easy to get with' I didn't mean in a sleezy way, I meant to hook up with in a mutally desireable manor from which a romantic, sexual and companionship based relationship could develop (but the more carefully I chose my sentences, the more verbose the originally short message becomes. If I'm a bad person, hopefully it's not because of what I say about women (or what little I've done with them).
Assuming you're correct, it is to me and I couldn't overlook it anymore than I could sexual attraction. I just have the sense to balance it all out correctly so that I think with my heart/head foremost. Though I'd rather not feel any of that because there's reams of evidence I have which i feel means I shouldn't even have that involuntary part of me that craves a relationship.
THANKYOU!! So I basically want to be- aromantic and asexual then I guess??
I agree.
Yes unfortunately this can be so, as I have written in this message above
, it has been a little overwhelming, all the negative blasting at me on here.Yer the latter part I couldn't help but agree with.The_Hopeless_Aspie_Guy has openly told us he has only had one relationship, and has remarked on friends' relationships. That is his experience. Let's not in turn judge him for having limited relationship knowledge.
I am lonely, but worse still I'm heavily conflicted because of what the lonliness/depression/anxiety has over-exposed me to in some flawed sub-conscious or instinctive involuntary attempt to get me into a romantic relationship.
But, I don't undeservedly want to make myself the center of attention regarding that.
Yes and no. Without make-up on I may not see someone as being as attractive, but I am still normally able to overlook that to appreciate the natural beauty and the same goes with any other mask of beauty in whatever form it takes.
I have had my own battles with internal subconscious oddities myself, and might have some small
amount of insight to offer as a male on the spectrum who deals with crippling loneliness, depression and anxiety among other fun conditions, but to help me understand better can you please try to maybe reword
this, as i am having trouble understanding what it is that is causing this conflict and anguish and so i can try and tell you how i have coped with similar stuff?
people here are responding to some of the ways in which you are wording your posts as i am having trouble and i assume others here too are having trouble too understanding what you are trying to express, and you are continuing to use language which people have expressed multiple times that they find offensive. people are not attacking you they are simply pointing out they find your terminology offensive, not you as a person. please try to articulate more of your experience so we can try to engage in a clearer dialogue and try to work past all those aspie communication issues that footmouth us so much irl.
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Firstly, if anything is inflammatory then I'd go to the doctor and get some cream prescribed, inflammations are annoying at best and painful at worst
And now on a less comical note, as has been pointed out in one of my quotes below, yes I could have worded this unintentionally badly (at least for some). All I was trying to say is that whilst there are not doubt many aspie women on the spectrum that are (what I personally consider to be) beautiful, these never seemed to be the ones I was able to meet or seemingly ones that I see any aspie guy friends or family with. Beauty is mostly (though not entirely) subjective and it would help if you tried to understand where I'm coming from and clarify any misconceptions rather than attack me and lambast me as being as bad a person as my often low self-esteem (at least around women) would have me believe i am. When I said things like 'easy to get with' I didn't mean in a sleezy way, I meant to hook up with in a mutally desireable manor from which a romantic, sexual and companionship based relationship could develop (but the more carefully I chose my sentences, the more verbose the originally short message becomes. If I'm a bad person, hopefully it's not because of what I say about women (or what little I've done with them).
inflammatory
- 1.
relating to or causing inflammation of a part of the body.
synonyms: provocative, incendiary, inflaming, inciting, agitating, stirring, rousing, provoking, fomenting, rabble-rousing, seditious, subversive, mutinous;
fiery, passionate;
controversial, contentious - 2.
(especially of speech or writing) arousing or intended to arouse angry or violent feelings.
"inflammatory slogans"
synonyms: provocative, incendiary, inflaming, inciting, agitating, stirring, rousing, provoking, fomenting, rabble-rousing, seditious, subversive, mutinous;
Hopeless, I didn't say you were a 'bad' person, I mentioned that your outlook, your perceptions need to be looked at and reconsidered. Ideas are not who you are as a person, probably because they change over the course of your life.
You are not bad, don't think of yourself in that way, whenever you think of yourself as 'bad' try and cut that thought off, and give yourself examples of things that you've done that run contrary to this. You have to fight the critical inner voice:
http://www.psychalive.org/critical-inner-voice/ https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...05/steps-overcoming-your-critical-inner-voice
Have you thought about the idea that your quest for beauty might be elusive? That in thinking in this way, you close yourself off to many relationships that could be beneficial to you? That in picking one idea, in this case your 'ideal' of beauty you are able to pretend with selective thinking that is the reason that you don't have relationships with people?
Not liking this person, or not liking that person even though you don't know them, is a kind of cage that you put yourself in, that prevents you from fully exploring relationships with people in the world.
You need to experience all kinds of relationships, so that you can learn from them. Eventually through knowing people, you do discover with maturity, what it is that you want. Maybe in knowing yourself a little better, this anxiety related to having this kind of relationship will abate, and will happen organically without such longing.
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
Irrespective of whether or not I deserve one or whom I do or don't deserve, I have a side of me (the one which I try to suppress and ignore (once so easily achieved, but these days I struggle) that wants a relationship, kissing, sex, companionship etc, I have an extreme range of tastes and the almost lack of any real relationships or sex etc creates a stronger desire and only drags me throuigh the mud and embarrasses me as it reveals my social shortcomings and lack of desirability (courtesy of the previously described 'aura'). I'd do anything to be aromantic and asexual (this is the real me) but instead I can barely convince myself I can easily do without these things and not think about them. I can't not look at an attractive person and not feel some mild sexual attraction (though I don't know what to make of it) and sometimes I'm fine with not being desireable (I wish I completely was) whilst other times it saddens me and I start focusing on couples (guys with women I feel are attractive) and envy them. Other days can go by where I feel more like my older self and I can resist and feel nothing and dislike the whole charade.
I have no problem with women I don't find attractive, but to me, if you don't find them physically attractive then they're regarded as a friend. I think the lack of focus on beauty for some of you guys must be an aspie thing maybe, but regardless, I see so many attractive and desirable women day in day out (some I think of as being better looking than others naturally but all are ones I would've been happy to have met up with following Online dating. I'm sorry but I can't change that I want (well wanted really, I don't pursue this kinda thing anymore) a physically attractive partner (to my own definition of attractive naturally) but ultimately that person wouldv've needed to have had a nice and compatible personality too, without which there is nothing but a one-night-stand or lust or something more arbitrary like that. I can't even help the whole sexual attraction/desire thing either (despite exceptional self control and discipline there) and it can't be ignored unfortunately, anymore than I can force myself to change in a way I know I can't.
Not if you intend to form a friendship with those you connect with in that way, ok I don't have many friends and struggle to make new ones, but even in the last few years I have mannaged to form a few (one or two of which were female).
So it sounds to me like you are lonely, and feeling pent up sexual desire that is left unfulfilled because you can't find a partner. And it sounds like you would like to be free of these feelings but you don't know how. And it seems to me that you're saying that the pent up sexual feelings are interfering when you try to start a relationship with someone, and also you have low self-esteem and feel rejected by women that appeal to you? Am I right or am I reading this completely wrong?
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
We are all sexual beings and have a wide spectrum of sexual identification and expression that really needs to be accepted as a vital and positive aspect of ourselves, whether we are with a partner who we can share this part of our selves with or not. the one thing that we should NEVER do is try to repress this aspect of our being as this can lead to some very negative, dangerous and damaging ways of associating the perfectly natural feelings of sexual arousal with negative, shameful or any number of damaging beliefs which will cause misery in our lives.
The real dangerous thing about holding a lid on your sexual feelings, wishing they weren't there and seeing them as almost unbearable is that you are holding on to those feelings so tightly you risk becoming a pressure cooker with no release valve.
Sexual energy and arousal are not bad feelings, as a male i know what it feels like to be turned on, what was that study about men thinking about sex every 10min or something, it is a very powerful and sometimes uncomfortable feeling, but it is an energy too, a huge reservoir of creative positive energy.
what are some things you enjoy, hobbies, sports, art etc?
i personally recommend swimming, tap into that huge positive sexual energy inside you and channel it into the areas of your life that you enjoy. stop being scared and ashamed of those feelings and you can unlock a powerful and positive lust for life.
i think the bit in bold is the bit you should really start trying to accept. it made me a bit worried that you didn't even want to acknowledge this.
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
The thing is, I'd probably say I just very much appreciate the 'female form', I'm not a perverted or sex crazed person, but I am a very physical (as in sense of touch) and visually perceptive person. I see amazing physical assets of some kind or another and there's a part of me that just melts for a brief moment (knowing that if that personas personality was good too, that I'd probably have the perfect partner for which I could want for nothing). I just wonder what a guy does to end up being with someone with such a fine mind, body and soul. It almost seems too good to be true to have a partner like that.
I don't involve myself in sports as a hobby (haven't done since p.e in school) as it's never interested me. I'm hardly shy of hobbies or interests though. At the moment modding my car seems to be a big focus.
I have difficulties beyond me trying to start a relationship with someone. Try- No-one I'm interested in (not that I really care too much) cares for me anyway, so my feelings towards them are as wasted as they are irrelevant and I'm many social levels down from them too.
No one says you are. Still, looking for a partner to fulfill an aesthetical wishes purpose is like looking for artwork that returns your love. No one could live like that – you could marry a superstar look-alike and she'd still walk around without make-up sometimes, have wrinkles and stretchmarks and wear baggy pants and whatnot.
Have you read Pygmalion? It's about a sculptor who falls in love with a sculpture he made.
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Everyone has different tastes and is attracted to different things. I don't think Hopeless_Aspie is saying he is shallow, or driven solely by a woman's appearance. I think it's misleading to say we shouldn't seek what we find attractive because one day it may look less than perfect. Everything tarnishes in time and I'm sure Hopeless knows that. It sounds to me as though he is describing people who catch his eye when out and about.
And we are all attracted to what we are attracted to. You can't really change that. I happen to be attracted to intelligent people (no idea what they look like so that's kind of hard but I'm happily married to a nerd so that's ok) and have an intense distaste for beefcake/muscles. That just means that I'll stay away from a guy with big muscles. Call me shallow.
We all have preconceived ideas about people based on appearance. How many people have had posters of singers or movie stars they liked in their rooms? There is nothing wrong with being attracted to a type of person and hoping to have a relationship with one. (Whether you have one or not is kind of irrelevant to my point.)
It's a bit like telling someone not to pursue a career they are interested in because one day there might be something they don't like about it.
And we are all attracted to what we are attracted to. You can't really change that. I happen to be attracted to intelligent people (no idea what they look like so that's kind of hard but I'm happily married to a nerd so that's ok) and have an intense distaste for beefcake/muscles. That just means that I'll stay away from a guy with big muscles. Call me shallow.
We all have preconceived ideas about people based on appearance. How many people have had posters of singers or movie stars they liked in their rooms? There is nothing wrong with being attracted to a type of person and hoping to have a relationship with one. (Whether you have one or not is kind of irrelevant to my point.)
It's a bit like telling someone not to pursue a career they are interested in because one day there might be something they don't like about it.
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Ste11aeres
Well-Known Member
So...lots of learning opportunities thereWhen did I say I was a nice guy? When did I say they were too stuck up to date me (who knows, maybe others guys were deserving but were still shunned, though it could happen vice-versa with guys doing this to girls too).
I've had one girlfriend, she messaged me first, I wasn't sure about her but I thought I'd give it a go. Partly as a result of settling, the relationship was a train wreck and she had also kinda settled because she was so uncertain in the end of my looks also. Settling lead to a poor relationship, no fun, no great conversations or communication, lacklusture sex.... need I go on. Suffice it to say that had I have gone for any of the other interested women (the majority (though not all) of which I personally did not feel in the slightest bit attracted to, not to say some other guy wouldn't) then it wiould have been a disaster. It's cruel to be with someone you don't love, you're supposed to make the peson you love feel beautiful inside and out and the last thing you wanna do is cringe when you go for a kiss. I had a habit of attracting the wrong women most (though not all of the time) but only got to the point of meeting up with one (the wrong one).
No they're fine (not perfect, who is?), but they're fine. My inability to find love stemmed largely from being an aspie (hey just look at other threads/posts on here with guys who actually want love (and probably deserve it) but have been alone for years rejected). But beyond simply being an aspie it's just some kind of invisible aura that prevents girls from liking or loving me. I can accept this, I just wish the other part of me would realise this and let go of the fantasy.
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threa...y-are-not-interested.10504/page-3#post-295025
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/how-long-can-someone-survive-with-no-friends.15177/
https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/aspies-and-dating.15665/
(1) You actually can get a girlfriend
(2) there was actually a girl who was interested enough to initiate
(3) being in a relationship doesn't guarantee happiness/
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
This I can easily appreciate and still find attractive in that same person.
1) I never doubted I could get one of which I wasn't attracted to and of which I'd class as settling for, but there's nothing exciting about that, never has been.
2) I didn't drink alcohol (this was one of her prerequisite), but she wasn't completley sure about my looks and in the end we were too much of a mismatch and it deteriorated (plus she was very messed up in the head, which didn't say a lot for the guy she'd chosen).
3) Not if you settle no, but I desperately wanted one back then and in that desperation it was a chance to explore sex for the first time (it's either lacklusture in many ways or just with someone you're not attracted to).
What makes you say this? What gave you the idea that nobody you find attractive is attracted in return? And how about the social thing - do you mean you're attracted to women in a different social class or do you mean you lack social skills ergo your level is below theirs on a scale of social sophistication?
Hopeless_Aspie_Guy
Well-Known Member
Oh this is an easy one, the few people I've been deluded enough into revealing how I felt about them 'all' let me down in one form or another. As an adult I've never seen any signs of anyone being interested (I see everything and pick up on a lot of things, if it was there I'd see it). Also it's hard to make a connection and never does it progress beyond chatting (usually just on a friendly level, but normally not as friends).
Probably both. I have the ability to socialise, but only to a certain point beyond which I don't know what to say and will just seem aloof or up-tight. Women are more sociable than guys, you can't do all the same things with them as guys and I spent most of my life with them being very elusive in it, so all my experience with them really has came from the past few years. I progressed from my starting point of 5% ability to the point I'm at now (very likely the furthest I can progress) about 12%. So whilst I have improved by over a factor of 2, I'm still lightyears away from being able to properly and regulaly engage with NT women, leaving me with the minority of aspie women and from that the few that I'm attracted to and from that the few who'd share the attraction. We've just gone from 1000 down to 1 or none I think. And it's wrong to assume that I have a shot with someone just because we're both on the spectrum, too presumptuos unfortunately.
