What gender are you?

[tazz]

*** 1967 (England and Wales)

My point was that it was close to being within my lifetime - but yeah, for everyone else, specific years are more useful. Thanks.

 

[Hypnalis]

Some more information I came across (lucky timing, because I'm looking at something else interesting that's happening in the ongoing "culture war"):

This was a malicious back-stab by the Government that was in effect from 1988 to 2000/2003:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28
The same source (an interviewee in a youtube video) mentioned that at around the same time it was possible for "L" women to have their children taken away from them because of their sexual polarity. The way she said it suggests that can't happen now, but I haven't checked.

It's a great shame the pendulum has started to swing back again, but IMO it's too late for any organization or individual to do anything about it /sigh.

 

[vergil96]

Excellent! I'm glad we can agree on that. That's the bottom line really.

Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to do genetic testing in general, it might be rather enlightening. We might just learn something important about the whole situation/relationship between sex and gender. Perhaps there's large numbers of trans people who have the genes that are in harmony with their identity. Until it's done, we simply don't know.

It may even make a huge difference to those people. It could save a few lives even.

I have much higher than average testosterone for an AFAB person and I have always thought that's why I feel like a guy. If the whole body masculinizes, the brain can too... I'm not sure how that connects with autism in my case tbh. Maybe not caring about social norms? I don't see the autism and gender as having to do with one another in my own life. Other than the upfront communication and not internalising social norms.

 

[MildredHubble]

I have much higher than average testosterone for an AFAB person and I have always thought that's why I feel like a guy. If the whole body masculinizes, the brain can too... I'm not sure how that connects with autism in my case tbh. Maybe not caring about social norms? I don't see the autism and gender as having to do with one another in my own life. Other than the upfront communication and not internalising social norms.

I'm sure there's a lot of factors come into play when we form our gender identity. I think that if social attitudes were different, we may find that our concept of binary genders is quite ridiculous. Sadly as it stands I think conservative attitudes are holding us back from learning the truth about gender.

As I said in an earlier post, we simply don't know how many people may have XX chromosomes and appear male or vice versa. Its not checked because we base our categorisation on physical characteristics. We take for granted that "innie" means XX "outie" means XY.

I think by now we should have evolved enough as a species and society to accept that, whatever the cause, we should just accept people for who they are, rather than telling them who they can be.

I sometimes use this thought experiment to give people an idea of what it's like to be transgender: Imagine you woke up tomorrow as the opposite sex. You were in every way, mentally, the same exact person, but now you are male when you were female or female when you were male. Its doubtful you would want people to treat you differently to the way they did before. Now imagine no one will accept you unless you conform to this new gender. Also imagine people won't let you join in the things you used to do socially and exclude you. Now realise that some of us were born that way.

I actually don't think it's really any different from forcing Autistic people mask and pretend not to exist for the comfort of others.

 

[vergil96]

As I said in an earlier post, we simply don't know how many people may have XX chromosomes and appear male or vice versa. Its not checked because we base our categorisation on physical characteristics. We take for granted that "innie" means XX "outie" means XY.

It's more complicated than chromosomes. What causes development of sex characteristics are hormones and there can be a lot of variation in that. The way hormones work in the human body is very complicated and there are many steps at which something might go different than usual. It can even be that just one kind of tissue is over- or undersensitive to a certain hormone.

I actually don't think it's really any different from forcing Autistic people mask and pretend not to exist for the comfort of others.

Yup

 

[The Pandector]

I’ve been reading this thread and have several questions, but I am afraid to ask them. I’ve noticed that, generally speaking, there are several points of view discussed but don’t see any representation close to my own take. Normally, this would give me joy and I would jump right in with gusto.

OTOH, the almost total lack of acknowledgment of other views (except in negative reference) could also be a warning signal that others hereabouts with views similar to mine know that differing opinions are manifestly unwelcome. Again, OTOH, it’s entirely possible that the folks here are as open as any, but today’s society has conditioned many of us to believe that contrary opinions and facts on this subject are an absolute cultural taboo.

I’ve always felt that the key to healthy relationships is understanding, which comes through communication, and I feel moved to participate in this conversation. However, I wonder if this would be a breach of just one more social etiquette. I’m a very literal person and do best when people speak directly.

Are questions or differing views welcome or allowed?

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Biologically I’m male but I consider myself to be gender neutral. I don’t really see myself as any gender.

 

[Jonn]

It might also throw some light on the number of trans people on the spectrum too.

Yes, I know it is a necro-post.

I have noticed there seems to be greater gender diversity in the autism community.

Regarding gender:
As an older person, I still find this confusing.
I am a biological heterosexual male, but I don't identify with the off-the-rack masculine persona.
And I find machismo laughable.

 

[Jonn]

Biologically I’m male but I consider myself to be gender neutral. I don’t really see myself as any gender.

Some ppl seem to have a problem with the biological factor regarding a person's gender identity.
My guess is that postmodernists tend to devalue logic/reason in favour of feelings.

Personally, I am comfortable with both the concepts of biology and gender identity.
I see these as distinct from each other.
Unless I am mistaken, some don't.

 

[A Fluffy Gray Cat]

I hate the roles of gender, but I was born a man.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

Female
And I luvvv being female.
I am broken but I sure am a beautiful woman as well as a girl.
I am not judgmental though and luv all genders and lgbtqia, u are all my friends if u chose to be

 

[Jonn]

I am a hardcore atheist. Hence I have absolutely no problem with the LGBT+ community.
If I were religious, reason would suggest that since god made gender-diverse ppl, it is part of "his" plan.

 

[MNAus]

I have noticed there seems to be greater gender diversity in the autism community.

It's an interesting point. One line of thinking (and I'm not supporting or dismissing) I heard is that people on the autistic spectrum are more likely to want to categorise themselves according to a particular identity.

 

[Hypnalis]

It's an interesting point. One line of thinking (and I'm not supporting or dismissing) I heard is that people on the autistic spectrum are more likely to want to categorise themselves according to a particular identity.

I'd be interested to see some comparative statistics. Though I suppose it would be difficult because both the "T" statistics and the ASD statistics have changed a lot in the last few decades (more of both, and the M/F split for T's has changed a lot, plus there's some weird clustering.

But assuming you could normalize the numbers, I'd start by testing if the ASD <-> not M/F/M or F/M/F (**) would be skewed towards a higher proportion of "L" and "F > M".

(**)
The multiple letters are a private technique I use to avoid the linguistic war. I don't expect it will ever become popular /lol.

:My system

Letter 1: Biological sex. Note the "split" is about 50% M, about 50% F, about 1 in 5000 not exactly 100% F or 100% M. The largest estimate I've seen using a broader definition, is about 1 in 2000.
Letter 2: Sexual polarity: (multiple values, common patterns M/F and F/M are (AFAIK) about 45% each
Letter 3: Preferred presentation: Also multiple values, but mostly M or F. This one is probably the hardest to quantify, but it's generally uncontroversial (i.e. there's not usually any dispute about "what a person is choosing to present as right now").

So "L" above would code as F/F/x (presentation irrelevant, so "x"), and "F->M" would code as F/x/M

There has to be fourth letter of course, but it's not relevant here. NB: I won't define it if asked.

 

[Streetwise]

Surprised me also, but this forum has always leaned conservative (it's the number of users who are Christians for me) and denying gay people the right to marry each other was still a thing in mainstream US as late as 10 years ago lol.

Wasn't it a thing in the past for a newborn with a penis that was too small to have the penis cut off and be raised as a girl, and to later be injected with hormones after the breasts never developed and the monthlies never arrived?

Why they didn't have a vagina,cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus, ovaries so they would never be a girl or a woman(xx)

 

[Ella Spell]

I don't have a cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus, or ovaries and I had most of my vagina removed. It was required because of sexual assault.

Does that mean I'm not a woman?

 

[Magna]

Female
And I luvvv being female.
I am broken but I sure am a beautiful woman as well as a girl.
I am not judgmental though and luv all genders and lgbtqia, u are all my friends if u chose to be

I think that's a great thing about how times are changing for the better. We're at a time where a person, naturally, should be able to celebrate what/who they are, be it bio-male, bio-female or any other gender they choose. I'm glad I'm not living in a time where a person feels pressure to be ashamed of who they are.

On a related topical note and as to the present day and future, I wonder if people will be shamed over their particular preferences regarding who they do and do not find attractive. It's happening a bit already, but I'm wondering if it will get worse. For example, if a bio-female is only interested in dating and/or being in a relationship with a bio-male, will she be shamed or admonished for her preference? Time will tell.

 

[Ella Spell]

I don't think so. The problem is bigotry, not identity.

 

[kenaij]

I think that's a great thing about how times are changing for the better. We're at a time where a person, naturally, should be able to celebrate what/who they are, be it bio-male, bio-female or any other gender they choose. I'm glad I'm not living in a time where a person feels pressure to be ashamed of who they are.

On a related topical note and as to the present day and future, I wonder if people will be shamed over their particular preferences regarding who they do and do not find attractive. It's happening a bit already, but I'm wondering if it will get worse. For example, if a bio-female is only interested in dating and/or being in a relationship with a bio-male, will she be shamed or admonished for her preference? Time will tell.

In a sense this is already happening. If a man says he does not want to date a trans women, see what names he get's called. Ofcourse only from extremists. It has not reached the norm yet. And it never should because it would mean we have not accomplished anything.
If a bio-female (as you refer to them) only wants to date a bio-male it could have basic logical reasons and nothing to do with thinking anything of non bio-males. For example wanting a child with your partner. Which, as far as I know, is still only possible between een bio-male and bio-female. (I continued using those terms because of your post, I hope I got their meaning right)

 

[Streetwise]

I don't have a cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus, or ovaries and I had most of my vagina removed. It was required because of sexual assault.

Does that mean I'm not a woman?

every cell of your body is xx thus a woman