What gender are you?

[Magna]

In a sense this is already happening. If a man says he does not want to date a trans women, see what names he get's called. Ofcourse only from extremists. It has not reached the norm yet. And it never should because it would mean we have not accomplished anything.
If a bio-female (as you refer to them) only wants to date a bio-male it could have basic logical reasons and nothing to do with thinking anything of non bio-males. For example wanting a child with your partner. Which, as far as I know, is still only possible between een bio-male and bio-female. (I continued using those terms because of your post, I hope I got their meaning right)

Then there's also...pheromones. Powerful things, those. Physical attraction is a multi-faceted and complex thing.

 

[Ella Spell]

every cell of your body is xx thus a woman

How do you know that? ^

I linked a biology study somewhere here about how our bodies work.

I didn't do hormone replacement, if that makes a difference in anyone's mind.

I'm a woman because I choose that I'm still a woman whether I have the parts or not.

My gender identity isn't dependent on my parts. It's dependent on my mind.

 

[kenaij]

Then there's also...pheromones. Powerful things, those. Physical attraction is a multi-faceted and complex thing.

Male and female pheromones are different thou . But I dont know if they change with hormone therapy or any other form transition. It is also completely besides the point. I can say for a fact (if I still was single without kids) I would never get into a relationship with a trans women. Because she would never be able to truly make me happy. Because she would never be able to have children with me (that are our own) . Just as much as I would not marry a female that cannot have children no matter how great that person is. Because the relationship would be unfair for both of is.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Ella Spell

Not disagreeing with your post as a whole, but ...
... Streetwise's statement is correct.

Excluding very low probably exceptions, biological sex is fixed at conception, and every cell in our bodies is "sexed".
This can't be changed with current technology.
It's not likely anything that can perform a full-body cellular level sex change will be developed in the foreseeable future.

This doesn't constrain what people can identify as of course. So if we temporarily fix the terminology to sex for genetics, and gender for psychological preference, we can say that gender is a personal choice.

There are also psychological and behavioral variations between humans that are almost certainly based on sex, but that leads to a more complicated discussion, because some things within the same domains are influenced by hormones.

 

[lovely_darlingprettybaby]

I think that's a great thing about how times are changing for the better. We're at a time where a person, naturally, should be able to celebrate what/who they are, be it bio-male, bio-female or any other gender they choose. I'm glad I'm not living in a time where a person feels pressure to be ashamed of who they are.

On a related topical note and as to the present day and future, I wonder if people will be shamed over their particular preferences regarding who they do and do not find attractive. It's happening a bit already, but I'm wondering if it will get worse. For example, if a bio-female is only interested in dating and/or being in a relationship with a bio-male, will she be shamed or admonished for her preference? Time will tell.

I'm glad people can be who they are as well.
❤

 

[Lil]

This doesn't constrain what people can identify as of course. So if we temporarily fix the terminology to sex for genetics, and gender for psychological preference, we can say that gender is a personal choice.

That is the bit I find problematic.

As far as I know all, of my chromosones are XY.

But my gender just is. It always has been. All my life.

There was no preference, choice or decision involved.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm just female.

 

[Slime_Punk]

Whatever society / individuals call me is perfectly fine; I respond to all pronouns and have never cared for labels on myself when they don't serve me or change my life in any meaningful way.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Lil
I made the definition of "gender" above simple (perhaps simplistic) deliberately.
All I needed was "something other than biological sex", because sex cannot be changed.

The step into the nature of how people self-identify is a minefield at the moment, and not one I want to navigate.

I've looked at it enough to learn the basics, but there are some rather large problems discussing it, including:

1. It's highly politicized at the moment. This will change in time, but not quickly.
2. It's closely tied to several of the current "hot spots" in the culture wars. I'm not interested in discussing those here
3. There's a lot of variation in how/why people identify their gender on the M/F scale.
4. "Identification" in this context is not well defined. For example it's not actually the same thing to identify as a gender that's one of M or F, as it is to identify as one of L, G, or B.

So what can actually be said to other people? I use a simple approach - I use "personal choice", and accept the fact that it can't be completely accurate for everyone.

When the "language campaign" part of the culture wars has been resolved in a decade or two, if I'm still alive I'll happily switch to the new, unambiguous vocabulary.

 

[Jonn]

Excluding very low probably exceptions,

What may they be?

biological sex is fixed at conception, and every cell in our bodies is "sexed".

I thought this was self-evident.

 

[Ella Spell]

@Hypnalis

1 and 2 don’t matter to people who aren’t motivated by political reasons, and / or people who have experienced a certain gender all their lives - just like you’ve presumably experienced your autism since birth. Autism is also a hot political topic but that doesn’t mean autistic people aren’t really autistic, or that advocacy invalidates their identity.

 

[Jonn]

I should note that these surgeries are considered medically unnecessary and are highly controversial because, you know, infants and children are incapable of consenting to these procedures, so it's instead the parents who have to consent.

In my mind, this is a major problem

 

[Hypnalis]

@Jonn

One example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera
Note that a transfusion of red blood cells can introduce cells from a differently sexed individual.
Note sure about transplants.

None of it is useful for this discussion though.


The second one - yes it's obvious, but there's a lot of misinformation around as part of the culture war.

 

[All-Rounder]

I think that's a great thing about how times are changing for the better. We're at a time where a person, naturally, should be able to celebrate what/who they are, be it bio-male, bio-female or any other gender they choose. I'm glad I'm not living in a time where a person feels pressure to be ashamed of who they are.

On a related topical note and as to the present day and future, I wonder if people will be shamed over their particular preferences regarding who they do and do not find attractive. It's happening a bit already, but I'm wondering if it will get worse. For example, if a bio-female is only interested in dating and/or being in a relationship with a bio-male, will she be shamed or admonished for her preference? Time will tell.

I have seen people be told like they are "fetishizing" a gender, just because they are attracted to them. For example to a pansexual person (definition: attracted to all genders, not only the two popular ones) people can say that they are doing something wrong by being attracted to someone who is not one of the two genders. Corruption in diversity advocacy.

So in that way also, this is already happening, a current issue.

 

[Jonn]

One example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera[/URL

 

[Jonn]

The second one - yes it's obvious, but there's a lot of misinformation around as part of the culture war.

Truth is one of the first casualties of war.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Jonn

You might like to take a look at the language issues.

Naturally language used in propaganda is carefully chosen.
Some of this is obvious (take a look at the actual semantics of the various "healthcare" words/phrases for example).

The neologisms are being created/evolved to carry specific meanings, but also to function as "dog whistles". Weaponizing language that way requires considerable awareness of the semantics.
Yet some highly relevant semantic spaces have been left ambiguous (e.g. sex, gender, male/female, words for sexual preference. ...)

Normally the rule for explanations is "stupidity before conspiracy", but the sophistication required for the neologisms is an indicator that the ambiguity and constant use of equivocation is deliberate.

FWIW the only side effect I personally care about is that the way it's been put together (including plenty of other manipulative techniques) makes it difficult to exchange ideas without simultaneously playing unproductive dominance games.

I quite enjoy this IRL, but it's not interesting online.

 

[Jonn]

Naturally language used in propaganda is carefully chosen.

One of my "favourites" is when they call ppl <something> "deniers" to incorporate the horrific connotations embedded.
Disgusting, but what can you do?

 

[All-Rounder]

@Jonn

One example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_chimera
Note that a transfusion of red blood cells can introduce cells from a differently sexed individual.
Note sure about transplants.

None of it is useful for this discussion though.


The second one - yes it's obvious, but there's a lot of misinformation around as part of the culture war.

In pregnant females, if the host is a different sex from the child, the host gets male chromosomes from the child that live in her body for years.

Fetal cells remain in moms — that isn’t news. But the discovery of fetal DNA in women’s brains is. (credit: Jay Shendure lab)
https://dnascience.plos.org/2012/10/25/male-dna-in-female-brains-revisited/
Male DNA in Female Brains Revisited - DNA Science

 

[All-Rounder]

In a sense this is already happening. If a man says he does not want to date a trans women, see what names he get's called. Ofcourse only from extremists. It has not reached the norm yet. And it never should because it would mean we have not accomplished anything.
If a bio-female (as you refer to them) only wants to date a bio-male it could have basic logical reasons and nothing to do with thinking anything of non bio-males. For example wanting a child with your partner. Which, as far as I know, is still only possible between een bio-male and bio-female. (I continued using those terms because of your post, I hope I got their meaning right)

I think breeding is excessive and more giving individuals would adopt a child needing parents. I wouldn't either of the options because I'm an antinatalist but also because I know my own difficulties in life, genetically and I don't like anything about children, spending time with them, etc.

It's very important to discuss such future plans from the first dates to see if people match.