What is AutiGender?

[As sweet as-pie]

It's not. Correlation shows statistical association, but does not provide any evidence at all about the reason for that relationship.

I would give the famous example on when correlation was misused, but I'm aware that's been discussed enough on this site that it's been asked not to be discussed, so you're probably aware of it.

Two things could be correlated for any number of reasons. A could cause B, B could cause A - but that's rare and correlation will not tell you which one caused the other. A and B could be completely unrelated and correlation is a coincidence. A and B could be both linked a dependence on C (or C + D + E + ...).

It goes on, but can be summarised by saying "correlation is not evidence of causation". I thought this was something everyone had drilled into them at school.

Obviously I know that correlation =/= causation but the fact that a link has been found surely shows that being autistic and having gender dysphoria is linked, whether it's caused by being autistic or not, there's still a very obvious correlation and it shows that we need to investigate into why that is. It just hasn't been investigated yet.

 

[55853]

a link has been found surely shows that being autistic and having gender dysphoria is linked

I'm sorry I'm being this pedantic, but from the first line of the abstract: "The current literature shows growing evidence of a link between gender dysphoria (GD) and autism spectrum disorder (ASD)" (emphasis mine). What that tells you is that no link has yet been found.

it shows that we need to investigate into why that is. It just hasn't been investigated yet.

Exactly. So stating "there's a lot of evidence to back that up" is incorrect - it's not known what's affecting what.

 

[As sweet as-pie]

I'm sorry I'm being this pedantic, but from the first line of the abstract: "The current literature shows growing evidence of a link between gender dysphoria (GD) and autism spectrum disorder (ASD)" (emphasis mine). What that tells you is that no link has yet been found.


Exactly. So stating "there's a lot of evidence to back that up" is incorrect - it's not known what's affecting what.

I don't have the energy to debate you any longer on this but I have to politely disagree.

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

I used to be a 'tomboy' as a child but whether thats cos I had a brother who I copied to learn how to play etc I'm older than him but never played properly until he reached the age he played properly (imaginatively/building stuff etc) I guess my parents assumed I was learning from his development. Maybe if they'd have had another girl after me I'd still have copied them to learn social behaviour When I reached puberty though I was told it was no longer appropriate because I was becoming a 'young lady' and my mum found me some female role models to copy and learn how to do make up and typically feminine things. When I was a child though in 70's/early 80's there wasn't as much of this pink versions of everything for girls (such as pink lego sets for girls, regular colours for boys). Blue was my favourite colour as young child and pinks/purples when I got older.

I'm glad they didn't assume I wanted to be male and put me through years of therapy to prepare for gender re-assignment!

That's not how it works.

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

Maybe it depends on their age too and when they were born? I find I'm quite set in my ways and routines but I'm not far off 50. Even with my dogs..my female wore pink but I wouldn't dress my male dog in a pink coat or even a collar that had any pink on it! I used to be a tomboy myself as a child but if I got another female puppy now I can safely say she'd end up with a lot of pink accessories as it's been my favourite colour for a while!

I find it amusing that you think any of this has to do with favorite color...

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

It’s pretty much the first lesson in statistics, yet also something the media consistently gets wrong when it suits a narrative.
For instance: Nicholas Cage movies cause people to drown!
View attachment 43365

I'd like to see if drowning went up, since Nicolas cage. Maybe people saw iguana and was like "welp there's no point in trying to swim in a world like this."

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

I gotta admit I'm digging the flag.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

I dont realy like all this idea of Gender , in my personal opinion we try to make general statement about gender ( like this is a construction for everybody) from a few cases of people having actual issues not related to social constructions...


But to be honest, i am 26 yo , never been in any relationship whatsoever, and i dont think i have ever felt a physical attraction, maybe i did all i could to avoid it, i dont know, maybe this is related to something else than ASD, and more to other things that come with the package ( like a long term depression and anxiety that could block or reduce this )

But I have to admit that i dont feel that i am totally connected with my own body, with who i am physically, so I dont think this is too crazy to think it can impact the way we picture ourselves in term of gender.

 

[SunnyDay16]

I don't buy all the new genders that exist nowadays. I think there's only two genders and those are male or female. I don't hold anything against people who believe otherwise, but I don't buy into all this gender stuff personally. Having a masculine-ish personality doesn't make you a man, nor does have a feminine-ish personality make you a woman. It's genitals that determine that, at least in my simple-minded view.

 

[Lia]

I don't buy all the new genders that exist nowadays. I think there's only two genders and those are male or female. I don't hold anything against people who believe otherwise, but I don't buy into all this gender stuff personally. Having a masculine-ish personality doesn't make you a man, nor does have a feminine-ish personality make you a woman. It's genitals that determine that, at least in my simple-minded view.

Then what about people who are intersex?

 

[kay]

I hated being called a Tomboy as a kid though I wasn't sure why I was called that. Guess it was because I wasn't getting my grandmother's fictitious ideas about what a girl is quite right. What is so particularly "boy-ish" or "masculine" about dirt, worms, toads, snakes, and toy cars?????? My problems with all the new gender labeling is I hear people labeling everything either masculine and feminine and that doesn't make sense to me.

Is transgender a real thing? Of course. Is everything and everyone that goes against a cultural stereotype of what a female should be or a male should be in need of a brand new word? Kinda doubt it, though I won't try to stop anyone from doing it as long as they don't insist I pick out something for myself. And that has happened.

I really do think though that not fitting gender molds and body dysphoria are more common with ASD because fitting in socially and keeping connected with our bodies isn't so easy anyways. No real scientific evidence but it makes sense to me anyways.

 

[AO1501]

Then what about people who are intersex?

It isn't just those who are intersex, but a whole raft of possibly millions who get tossed out of their own reality if their personal knowledge of themselves isn't supposed to count. I thought we'd survived the 19th century and managed a few steps beyond by now.

 

[Lia]

It isn't just those who are intersex, but a whole raft of possibly millions who get tossed out of their own reality if their personal knowledge of themselves isn't supposed to count. I thought we'd survived the 19th century and managed a few steps beyond by now.

The reason I mentioned intersex is because it seems to me that SunnyDay16 thinks there are only two types of genitals.

 

[AO1501]

The reason I mentioned intersex is because it seems to me that SunnyDay16 thinks there are only two types of genitals.

Yes, I know, and I apologise for suggesting that I question your point, I don't. I really just meant that the notion of genitals being the only way to determine gender is... well, very outdated. It wasn't to question your direct challenge at all.

 

[Thinx]

I guess we used to be less precise in our use of the word gender so some people still see it as describing anatomy and all the cultural norms and myths we attach to anatomy. The distinctions we are making now are like the distinctions we are learning to make about different brains, people used to think that there was only one kind but now we know different. Similarly minority sexualities were seen as illnesses and only heterosexuality was deemed valid or real.

People used to think one colour of skin was better or more valid than another. Etc. Times change and now we think of gender as a concept not a biological truth. But this can make people who didn't grow up with that idea uneasy. They want to keep it simple, I guess. Most people in this thread have tried to stretch their ideas and been curious and non judgemental however, and that seems like a good sign for the future to me.

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

I dont realy like all this idea of Gender , in my personal opinion we try to make general statement about gender ( like this is a construction for everybody) from a few cases of people having actual issues not related to social constructions...


But to be honest, i am 26 yo , never been in any relationship whatsoever, and i dont think i have ever felt a physical attraction, maybe i did all i could to avoid it, i dont know, maybe this is related to something else than ASD, and more to other things that come with the package ( like a long term depression and anxiety that could block or reduce this )

But I have to admit that i dont feel that i am totally connected with my own body, with who i am physically, so I dont think this is too crazy to think it can impact the way we picture ourselves in term of gender.

Physical attraction is actually sexuality, which is similar but not the same as gender. You are likely asexual.

 

[Iamnotarabot]

Physical attraction is actually sexuality, which is similar but not the same as gender. You are likely asexual.

Yeah I know this is considerated as 2 different things but it is a bit hard to realy comprehend it, i mean in the end , it overlapps a litte right?

 

[SunnyDay16]

Then what about people who are intersex?

That's pretty different from what is being described here I think. People who are intersex are born with different sexual organs, hormones, chromosomes, etc. than male or female which is different from actually being male or female and labeling yourself as a different gender (which was what I was referring to when I was making my comment).

 

[AO1501]

Yeah I know this is considerated as 2 different things but it is a bit hard to realy comprehend it, i mean in the end , it overlapps a litte right?

Not really, no. My gender is what sex I identify myself as. Sexuality is what sex I am attracted to. Neither determines the other.

More simply: Gender is how I see myself, and sexuality is how I see others.

 

[Gracey]

That surprises me, for me it came up at a fairly early level in science and maths. Is it possible it was taught but you've forgotten, or do you reckon it was never covered?

I suspect I wasn’t interested (at the time) and maybe don’t remember it.?
Possibly?