Yet another shooting, yet another "Aspergers Syndrome" diagnosis

[Sass]

My dad always suggests reading another countries spin on the news because a lot of them aren't as biased as the American media outlet ...

Didn't the media say he was officially diagnosed ? I'm interested and curious in NZ Herald New's sources for this claim that he hadn't been officially diagnosed :/

Why would NZ be taken out of the mix ? Because they ain't pointing fingers at a scapegoat like the American media is and is actually reporting facts and not whatever sells ?

I meant Aspies being taken out of the mix

Also the source for this article is the Daily Telegraph, which I believe is UK based.

 

[Arashi222]

Why does everyone think it matters if he had ASD or not. Why does it matter? He killed people. He hurt people. It doesn't matter what his diagnosis was or not. I have been in this place where the survivors are. I have lost a friend in massacre and this is just it makes me upset. Everyone is so focused on why or how or diagnosis that they are forgetting that there are people hurting. There are those that got left behind and they are hurting because they have lost their their friends or daughters or brothers.

 

[Sass]

Why does everyone think it matters if he had ASD or not. Why does it matter? He killed people. He hurt people. It doesn't matter what his diagnosis was or not. I have been in this place where the survivors are. I have lost a friend in massacre and this is just it makes me upset. Everyone is so focused on why or how or diagnosis that they are forgetting that there are people hurting. There are those that got left behind and they are hurting because they have lost their their friends or daughters or brothers.

I don't think it matters either way, I just wanted to add information for people who are interested.

 

[King_Oni]

Why does everyone think it matters if he had ASD or not. Why does it matter?

To me personally it matters since I don't want to be associated with someone like him. I don't want it to come down to "it's one of them violent Asperger's people".

And yes, that might be awfully selfish to think from my own perspective first rather than the victims, but relatively speaking I don't feel I'm in the safest position in terms of mental healthcare and possible repercussions. That's why it matters to me.

 

[Judge]

I'm mostly concerned about the long history of medical care the young man had. And why medical professionals didn't seem to pick up on the degree of care he really appeared to have needed. What went wrong?

Is this an individual malpractice issue or is the science (and law) insufficient to properly assess the potential of such people to harm others? I want to know. Especially if there's a breakdown in the science itself.

 

[Warwick C]

I think we need to consider both sides of a massacre, how much do you here about the victims. What if it was a close friend of yours to die in a massacre. Add to that not being able to say good bye to them.

 

[Ereth]

I've thought about the victims and their families while writing every single post I've made in this thread. I swear I'm not sweeping them under the rug. I want to understand how and why it happened for their sake, so that a similar event in the future might be prevented.

It doesn't matter to me if Rodger had ASD. I don't expect people to start looking at me funny because of him---he might have started off as just an introverted guy due to the ASD, but I think that ultimately, his extreme narcissism and delusions got him to this point, along with the fact that he managed to convince everyone else that he was no threat.

 

[Sass]

I've thought about the victims and their families while writing every single post I've made in this thread. I swear I'm not sweeping them under the rug. I want to understand how and why it happened for their sake, so that a similar event in the future might be prevented.

It doesn't matter to me if Rodger had ASD. I don't expect people to start looking at me funny because of him---he might have started off as just an introverted guy due to the ASD, but I think that ultimately, his extreme narcissism and delusions got him to this point, along with the fact that he managed to convince everyone else that he was no threat.

Agreed Ereth.

I would imagine that most people's first thought is for the people that were killed and injured, and their families. While I'm not worried that I'll suddenly be demonised because the media has reported he may or may not have been ASD/Aspergers, I can understand why that would make some people fearful – hence the name/topic of this thread. I also can't begin to imagine what it would be like to lose someone in these circumstances, so imagining how they would feel seems almost something wrong to do, like I should never try, because I haven't experienced that kind of loss and shouldn't try to (and don't need to) appropriate it in order to empathise. It's a tragedy, there are many people suffering, but perhaps conversations can still go on, particularly if they're around motivation/mental health, so that maybe with understanding these things may not happen again. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but there you go...

 

[Judge]

but I think that ultimately, his extreme narcissism and delusions got him to this point, along with the fact that he managed to convince everyone else that he was no threat.

The combination of those factors really, really concerns me. What went wrong for someone who had been in mental health care since they were a child ?

 

[Ereth]

I can understand why that would make some people fearful – hence the name/topic of this thread. I also can't begin to imagine what it would be like to lose someone in these circumstances, so imagining how they would feel seems almost something wrong to do, like I should never try, because I haven't experienced that kind of loss and shouldn't try to (and don't need to) appropriate it in order to empathise. It's a tragedy, there are many people suffering, but perhaps conversations can still go on, particularly if they're around motivation/mental health, so that maybe with understanding these things may not happen again. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but there you go.

I too can understand the fear. But Adam Lanza had ASD and I haven't noticed any uptick in "autism-bashing" or whatever you want to call it. As I've said, I think the best thing for us to do to allay this fear is not to dwell on it too much and focus our efforts on continued advocacy. That's something to strive for, isn't it?

The combination of those factors really, really concerns me. What went wrong for someone who had been in mental health care since they were a child ?

It's a very important question, and one that will be investigated even with his death. Obviously I know next to nothing about the details of Rodger's mental health history, but I doubt he shared the full extent of his hatred or his fantasies with his doctors, and certainly never with his family. Certainly he should have done so. But people with NPD, which, as you know, I suspect he had, learn to manipulate and control. He probably learned at some point that he would have to act like nothing was wrong to avoid what he perceived as interference from his parents and doctors.

I may ask my psychologist for her opinions the next time I speak to her.

 

[Sass]

I too can understand the fear. But Adam Lanza had ASD and I haven't noticed any uptick in "autism-bashing" or whatever you want to call it. As I've said, I think the best thing for us to do to allay this fear is not to dwell on it too much and focus our efforts on continued advocacy. That's something to strive for, isn't it?

It absolutely is, and was what I was trying to say, but I wasn't clear enough in my explanation. I was more replying to the idea that we shouldn't care if he had Aspergers or not, or whatever other mental illness, because he did something bad so he must have just been bad. Discussion can also be advocacy, when it's done properly, at least I hope it still can.

 

[Nitro]

The combination of those factors really, really concerns me. What went wrong for someone who had been in mental health care since they were a child ?

After getting my TBI I had about a dozen neuropsychs miss my autism...no one ever asked the proper questions...I was treated as a NT and placed as a square peg into their round hole...we do not fit...the sticker label happy world wants to place too many marks to begin with and labeling is most of our problem...concentrate on the real problem,not spend time trying to give it names...the shootings and slaughters are mental issues possibly induced by excessive prescription drugs...civil rights in my country will not allow those people to be examined for the real cause...the media is to blame for sensationalizing news...again They are quick to pick up on what makes them money and if the subject is misunderstood,it attracts attention and adds to their pile...business as usual

 

[Ereth]

It absolutely is, and was what I was trying to say, but I wasn't clear enough in my explanation. I was more replying to the idea that we shouldn't care if he had Aspergers or not, or whatever other mental illness, because he did something bad so he must have just been bad. Discussion can also be advocacy, when it's done properly, at least I hope it still can.

Oh, I agree---except for the "he must have just been bad" part. I obviously don't know him well enough to make such a determination one way or the other. He said and did horrific things, and he had little regard for human beings, but he was clearly also very sick.

 

[Sass]

Oh, I agree---except for the "he must have just been bad" part. I obviously don't know him well enough to make such a determination one way or the other. He said and did horrific things, and he had little regard for human beings, but he was clearly also very sick.

Oh I didn't mean you in particular, it's just something I've been hearing from people since it happened. My apologies

 

[Tarragon]

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions, unless we are not capable of this in which case we need to be helped.

There is such a pressing need to help everyone with mental health issues in society. It has been ignored for so long, with the history of "treatment" for mental health being horrific. When I went for therapy a few years back, it was to the old "hospital" for mental health cases. It was basically the old county asylum, which looked every bit as gothic and terrifying as this word conjures up.

Is society in denial over mental health? Very probably. Then again, how much time do we spend every day thinking of all the horrible diseases that exist which ravage our physical bodies. There has to be a "ignore the bad side of life" coping mechanism inbuilt into all of us just to go about our daily lives and not think of what might happen to us down the road.

There are a lot of charities which raise awareness of fundraising for the big diseases (cancer in particular seems to be highlighted everywhere). Because this can affect anyone randomly, it gets the big news and attention. I am seeing more mental health awareness being introduced in the UK, but it's slow. It's only a generation or two back that treatment for mental health was like something out of the dark ages. So, maybe we are living in the time of it slowly being brought forward into modern medicine and help.

These shooting stories are probably dismissed by most people as "another nutter" stories, and with so much news and information available, attention spans are minimal at best. The real tragedy is of course the victims and their friends and families. Even, dare I say it, the family of the murderer? And, ultimately, the murderers themselves are victims. I am not distributing any amounts of "sympathy" between these peoples, I just think that this society needs to address mental health just as importantly as physical health.

What made me post this thread initially was my exasperation over news reporting. It's horrifying to realise that as I get older and am exposed to more and more of the antics of human beings, I am more and more desensitised. I saw this report and wasn't shocked by what had happened. This is in itself an awful realisation.

It get harder and harder to comprehend humanity as I learn more and more about it. Mental health is ignored, warning signs are ignored, having seriously dangerous weapons freely available throughout a society is accepted, and the biggest one of all - there are no places to go and hide from all this. Everywhere on the planet has humans and their baggage. I too have decided I can't have kids because of the world they face. Ignorance is bliss and I am not ignorant.

I am so grateful to have Aspergers which has, after a torturous path, brought me to where I am today. I'm only just realising I've got more humanity in my views than a lot of people. Don't know what use this is yet, but I'm glad I am a little more compassionate than most.

 

[Sass]

At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions, unless we are not capable of this in which case we need to be helped.

There is such a pressing need to help everyone with mental health issues in society. It has been ignored for so long, with the history of "treatment" for mental health being horrific. When I went for therapy a few years back, it was to the old "hospital" for mental health cases. It was basically the old county asylum, which looked every bit as gothic and terrifying as this word conjures up.

Is society in denial over mental health? Very probably. Then again, how much time do we spend every day thinking of all the horrible diseases that exist which ravage our physical bodies. There has to be a "ignore the bad side of life" coping mechanism inbuilt into all of us just to go about our daily lives and not think of what might happen to us down the road.

There are a lot of charities which raise awareness of fundraising for the big diseases (cancer in particular seems to be highlighted everywhere). Because this can affect anyone randomly, it gets the big news and attention. I am seeing more mental health awareness being introduced in the UK, but it's slow. It's only a generation or two back that treatment for mental health was like something out of the dark ages. So, maybe we are living in the time of it slowly being brought forward into modern medicine and help.

These shooting stories are probably dismissed by most people as "another nutter" stories, and with so much news and information available, attention spans are minimal at best. The real tragedy is of course the victims and their friends and families. Even, dare I say it, the family of the murderer? And, ultimately, the murderers themselves are victims. I am not distributing any amounts of "sympathy" between these peoples, I just think that this society needs to address mental health just as importantly as physical health.

What made me post this thread initially was my exasperation over news reporting. It's horrifying to realise that as I get older and am exposed to more and more of the antics of human beings, I am more and more desensitised. I saw this report and wasn't shocked by what had happened. This is in itself an awful realisation.

It get harder and harder to comprehend humanity as I learn more and more about it. Mental health is ignored, warning signs are ignored, having seriously dangerous weapons freely available throughout a society is accepted, and the biggest one of all - there are no places to go and hide from all this. Everywhere on the planet has humans and their baggage. I too have decided I can't have kids because of the world they face. Ignorance is bliss and I am not ignorant.

I am so grateful to have Aspergers which has, after a torturous path, brought me to where I am today. I'm only just realising I've got more humanity in my views than a lot of people. Don't know what use this is yet, but I'm glad I am a little more compassionate than most.

Well said. I see having children differently though. I have 2 kids, and I see it as my responsibility to raise humans that are accepting of differences but aware of dangers. That way I hope they won't write people off immediately, but perhaps be cautious as to who they give their hearts and time. I like to think that the large part of humanity is still at its very core only really concerned with living well and not worrying what others are doing, although I'm aware that this is probably a bit naive. It's usually the loudest and most divisive/unpleasant viewpoints that are listened to, I'm teaching my kids to listen to the mice instead of the lions.

 

[Brent]

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing the shooter in depth as long as no one is glorifying what he did. I think there needs to be a global discussion on mental health and this guy seems like the poster child to study why all the signs of an unstable person were ignored.

I found the manifesto fascinating because it is rare that the mentally unstable that go through with these types of killings leave anything behind that explains what their thought process was like leading up to the killings.

For those interested I wrote a quick website that allows you to easily view the manifesto: Elliot Rodger "My Twisted World" Manifesto

There has been a lot of good discussions in this thread and hope to see them continue.

 

[Daniel]

I found the manifesto fascinating because it is rare that the mentally unstable that go through with these types of killings leave anything behind that explains what their thought process was like leading up to the killings.

I agree! To me, if there was anything "Aspie-like" about this kid, it was the way he wrote. The sheer volume of detail. I could write something like that about the St. Louis Cardinals. I recognize that qualitative difference.

But the detachment and delusion--I don't see anything Aspie in that. If anything, we take things too literally to make up crazy-ass fantasies like that. (I speak for myself, of course!) I know we're not all good at math, but surely we know better than to expect to win the lottery!

That's interesting that he probably knew it was wrong on some level because he didn't want to get caught. He knew other people wouldn't like it. There was an incident up here in Canada a few years ago where a guy had a psychotic break on a Greyhound bus and stabbed and decapitated another passenger with a machete. Now that guy didn't care if he got caught. That guy didn't kill himself, either.

I only just thought of this, but when these shooters kill themselves right after--there's something "sane" about that.

 

[Daniel]

Re: media portrayal... It's a business with standard practices, and it's only as good as the people who write it. They have to simplify issues for the masses. The baseline level of consciousness in our culture is still relatively low. The rich tapestry of the human feast turns into store-brand canned stew when it gets processed into single-serve portions.

 

[Ereth]

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing the shooter in depth as long as no one is glorifying what he did. I think there needs to be a global discussion on mental health and this guy seems like the poster child to study why all the signs of an unstable person were ignored.

I found the manifesto fascinating because it is rare that the mentally unstable that go through with these types of killings leave anything behind that explains what their thought process was like leading up to the killings.

For those interested I wrote a quick website that allows you to easily view the manifesto: Elliot Rodger "My Twisted World" Manifesto

There has been a lot of good discussions in this thread and hope to see them continue.

Thanks for this. I did want to read the rest of it to try to better understand how Rodger's delusions were formed.