A higher spiritual truth to autism?

[Bellatrix]

nope,i cant see it,many of us auties are forced to have a religeon and struggle to understand all the concepts,the language and spirituality overall, and aspies are often athiests because they are more scientific minded,so id say the spectrum isnt very spiritual.

Well, here's one Aspie who isn't an atheist!

I don't know about us being "more scientifically-minded". I think that is a bit of a stereotype, one that unfortunately both Aspies and N.T.'s seem to like to believe has some truth to it.

 

[Bellatrix]

Y'all know metaphysics is dead, right?

Of course, because Stephen Hawking said so (in his book "The Grand Design"). It really is funny, because that claim itself (i.e. "Philosophy is dead") is itself a philosophical statement, so he engaged in philosophising in an attempt to denounce and debunk that which he himself was accepting the use and validity of.

 

[Bellatrix]

In fact, if it were not for MY Creator ( I say MY, because I know if I say: OUR, that I will be called up on that, since not everyone does believe), then there would be no science.

Stand up to the bullies. If someone objects, tell them where to go. OUR creator. There, I said it. Any objections?

 

[Full Steam]

Yes, in one of those TedX talks on YouTube, a scientist named Rupert Sheldrake mentions this (in reference to the "Big Bang" of cosmology). A universe from literally nothing really IS a miracle, one worse than magic. "At least with magic, you have the magician and the hat" - William Lane Craig

It's from Sheldrake I got quote, although he was quoting someone else I think.

His book, the science delusion is very good, although I'm not sure I buy morphic resonance theory.

That Tedx speech was removed by militant atheist complaining to Ted, who pathetically caved in to them. That caused a #### storm of protest since Sheldrake is a well respected Oxbridge Don.

 

[Full Steam]

Religion is simply the adoption of certain attitudes, practices and beliefs that one hopes will ensure safe passage to the afterlife of one's choice, or being reborn into a higher caste in one's next incarnation on Earth. It is, more than anything, developed out of habit: habits of thought, and habits of routine (ex. praying five times a day). People who talk about God are often called 'religious', but I believe in God and am not religious.

I see spirituality as a journey towards our true nature and the reality in which we find ourselves, often with the help of those who went before.

I see religion as putting all the above in a box with tinsel, bells and whistles and a hierarchy that protects and pontificates about the boxes contents.

 

[Full Steam]

Yes, for without it we would be aware of precisely nothing, including the reality of our own existence. From our perspective, there would indeed be absolutely nothing in existence.
.

I actually mean it literally.

No me, no universe.

That doesnt leave us with solipsism, as long as you have cosmic consciousness that we are all a part of.

Particles and everything else exists solely as probabilities until an observer enters the system.
"When you turn from one room to the next, when your animal senses no longer perceive the sounds of the dishwasher, the ticking clock, the smell of a chicken roasting - the kitchen and all its seemingly discrete bits dissolve into nothingness - or into waves of probability." Robert Lanza

His book, biocentrism is brilliant.

 

[Alcyon]

Of course, because Stephen Hawking said so (in his book "The Grand Design"). It really is funny, because that claim itself (i.e. "Philosophy is dead") is itself a philosophical statement, so he engaged in philosophising in an attempt to denounce and debunk that which he himself was accepting the use and validity of.

I suppose this forum isn't likely to be the best place for subtle joshing. Metaphysics isn't dead, because people are still active in the field. Metaphysics, as it was, is, if not dead, near moribund; it certainly doesn't enjoy quite the status it used to. The idea that a philosopher can sit in his chair and arrive at the truth solely through a priori thought is an idea no longer quite so compelling. For example, no-one could ever take a philosopher's treatment of the mind-brain duality seriously if he was not fully conversant with neuroscience. Without having read Hawking's book, I would imagine that this is likely to be at least a partial explanation for his assertion. He's wrong, he's actually very wrong, but he's not entirely wrong.

There seems to be notion here that there is some cabal of militant atheist materialists at work in the world; if there is, they really need to get their act together! The recognition of the importance of reason, free enquiry and thought, et al, things that were hard-won and bequeathed to us, are being frittered away without a care, it seems.

Sheldrake, in a way, provides an example of this. His talk wasn't pulled because frothing-at-the-mouth atheists objected, it was pulled because he's making claims for his work, and about science in general, that are either unsubstantiated or untrue. He may be onto something, but he's not operating within the guidelines of orthodox scientific work. Yet his endeavours are being given, by some, the same status as more objective efforts.

As tonight's entertainment, here's a link to a discussion between a scientific sceptic and Neil deGrasse Tyson; it is fun to read, and instructive.
http://gizmodo.com/i-watched-neil-degrasse-tyson-take-on-a-science-skeptic-1791380377

I am not going to go into what I believe or not, because...who cares? What I think important, more for me than you, is the recognition that there is a difference between subjective and objective truth.

Objective truth is something that almost all agree with; as a modern psalmist might say: "the fool says in his heart '1+1 does not equal two'." If anyone thought to argue the point, the Principia Mathematica proved it; albeit, it took several hundred pages to do so.

Subjective truth. Much of what has been discussed so far in this thread falls in this category. And often, a little examination will downgrade what seems to be a "truth" to a "belief". Leaving that aside, the subjective falls outside the purview of rational, philosophical or scientific seeking: it is neither provable nor falsifiable. For example, on the question of god, the only proper philosophical answer is agnosticism. If it were otherwise, people would believe or not, depending upon the results of the investigation. This is why Kierkegaard famously recommended the "leap of faith": he thought reason could take us only so far.

Recognising that most of the truths that guide me, and others, are either subjective or only beliefs, can help me (though not entirely) avoid the bumptious assertions that often arise in discussions like these.

So what does any of this have to do with the OP's wondering if there's a higher spiritual truth to autism? There is if you want there to be, but it will be your non-transferable truth, and you will have to create it yourself.

There. That was easy.

 

[fuðflogi]

Y'all know metaphysics is dead, right?

Nope . Now it's noetic sciences

 

[LyricalMuse]

The only belief I reject is atheism, as it takes a stand for the non-existence of God

I refer to myself as an atheist only because I have a difficult time with the word "god". To me, a god is something you bow down to and worship. Also, I was raised in a Christian church and was told in one breath that god was all-loving and merciful, and in the next breath that HE would damn us to hell eternally if we did not OBEY HIM. I could not believe in an all-powerful, male entity that needed constant praise and was less forgiving than I am.

People are driven into opposition (atheism) by the extremes of religion which do not fit with scientific discovery.

For me, it was the religious people, along with logic, which tore away my belief in a god. Religious people have been the cruelest, most hypocritical people I have ever met. All the physical, sexual, and mental abuse in my childhood was inflicted on me by those who called themselves a Christian. However, spiritual people have been some of the kindest, most loving people I've ever known.

I do believe we are all a part of something much larger than ourselves, I just cannot call that "God" due to the numerous traumas in my past. That's why I identify with atheism. That said, atheist do not share many of my beliefs, only the belief that there is no "God." In fact, I've actually debated the existence of certain phenomena with a couple of atheists. It seems that even though they can believe in known energies, they cannot believe that other types of as yet unknown/unproven energies exist.

I also cannot refer to myself as agnostic as I have no doubt that certain things exist. I don't know if there is a name for a person like myself. I used to say I was spiritual... but I am struggling with even believing in myself right now. (I don't mean my literal, flesh-and-blood body.)

I think I found it a lot easier than many NTs as many people never get any where and are still running around after sages 20 years later.

Why do you think that is? My experience was similar except that I actually reached a point where I felt "enlightened". By that I mean, I reached a point where I could actually feel myself as being a part of that which was greater. I "KNEW". Others were still seeking. I felt at one with the universe while others still struggled to find their footing.

Now, I feel as though I have been cut off from the whole. It's a horrible feeling. Everything I experienced is still real and still happening, but I feel like I am no longer permitted to partake. The worst part is that I don't know anyone else who has experienced this, so I feel very alone with it.

Especially when he talks about aspies being aware of the subtle planes. For as long as I can remember I have had this strange almost psychic ability, though I wouldn't call it psychic. I just get this feeling and I know what is about to happen. Or I get feelings from people and I know whats going on without them telling me.

I've had feelings but, more often than not, I've had a sudden knowing. It's not something I felt in my body (although I have done so on occasion) as much as it was a very forceful and intrusive thought. At times, it was a voice that interrupted my thoughts and gave me an instruction such as, "Get off the freeway," or "You need to go to (insert name)'s house." I've also had visions where I actually saw a scene as though watching a short clip but those were rare.

I usually don't talk about these things because some people just think I have a mental problem. My family, however, knows better. Especially my husband who would most likely be dead right now if he didn't believe me. Even my ex-husband knows he should listen to me, having once pleaded with him to alter his route on his drive home from a camping trip which saved his life and the lives of our two daughters.

I hate the word "psychic" so I either said I was intuitive or very sensitive. People think psychic means having the ability to tap into whatever information they choose, like lottery numbers. In my experience, that is not how it works.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

If you were to follow the jesus's teaching...

Would it be easier to act with pure intent without ulterior motive?

To give and not to count the cost....
To give and not expect anything in return...

A lot of people are suspicious if you just give them something. Or they have a motive behind their gifts..
I would normally give just to give, my only rule is that it should be something I really like (ie my favorite wine not a generic one)

Simply being honest.

Be kind to your neighbour. (Logical maybe, to be kind in general)

So I look at it as an aspie is born to be religious in that sense.. as some of the requirements for a spiritual life are built in to the chipset...

and is also at risk of being ostracized like the early christians.....

Being tortured and torturing oneself also fits in nicely to the biblical stuff

 

[Caitie33]

As a spiritual person I recognize that my beliefs are subjective. That said I also believe that those who deeply pursue knowledge of the universe and the meaning of existence can find truth. That pursuit requires an understanding of both spiritual and scientific. I notice patterns and commonalities in life and truth. It was this thinking that led me to the belief that we are all part of something that is bigger and greater than ourselves. We are all part of some collective energy, but we are not all part of the same energy. We choose to be part of all others who are also good or evil, enlightened or ignorant, cooperative or destructive. I think religious people can be good or bad. The problems I have with organized religion in general is that you have to buy into the whole system. For many people this ends any pursuit of truth. After all the religion tells you what to believe and to not question it and just accept it completely. And yes the whole thing about there being a 'God' that is a man or male being who must be worshiped and obeyed.

 

[Marmot]

This conversation is getting deep

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

Look up indigo children I find they have a lot of the same characteristics as asd

 

[Ambi]

I don't know if I would say there is a higher spiritual truth to autism, but I would say that for me, I definitely believe it has greatly influenced my spirituality - my experience as an aspie is possibly the whole reason for why I am oriented towards God, and imho, I do think it enables me to approach/have a relationship with God more intimately in a certain way than an NT might. But they may approach/have a relationship God more intimately in a different way that I can't really manage as well. For me, personally, being an aspie is the most fertile ground for planting my spirituality, or maybe I just deliberately made it so. It makes me feel so much closer to God, regardless of whether that sense is all in my head. To me, despite all the struggles and issues that come from being on the spectrum, in a spiritual sense I consider it to be a blessing. I don't say that to mean that others are less blessed, maybe differently blessed.

 

[DudBomb]

I actually mean it literally.

No me, no universe.

That doesnt leave us with solipsism, as long as you have cosmic consciousness that we are all a part of.

Particles and everything else exists solely as probabilities until an observer enters the system.
"When you turn from one room to the next, when your animal senses no longer perceive the sounds of the dishwasher, the ticking clock, the smell of a chicken roasting - the kitchen and all its seemingly discrete bits dissolve into nothingness - or into waves of probability." Robert Lanza

His book, biocentrism is brilliant.

I have also considered that memory can keep things solid for a time. That some things never fully dissolve either because the number of consciences or sub-consciences tuned in to it. Did I just make this up or realize it?

 

[Crossbreed]

I definitely believe that there is "a higher spiritual truth to autism," but you have to have a solid spiritual foundation in order to recognize it.

Jesus said (in John 3:3-8 AMP),

“I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter his mother’s womb again and be born?"

Jesus answered, "I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.

What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).

The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

(emphasis mine)

 

[DudBomb]

I definitely believe that there is "a higher spiritual truth to autism," but you have to have a solid spiritual foundation in order to recognize it.

Jesus said (in John 3:3-8 AMP),

“I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot ever see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter his mother’s womb again and be born?"

Jesus answered, "I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God.

What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not [do not be surprised, astonished] at My telling you, You must all be born anew (from above).

The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

(emphasis mine)

John 9:2,3
And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?"
Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

 

[fuðflogi]

Look up indigo children I find they have a lot of the same characteristics as asd

yes, i think that is what is meant by "system busters" and i believe that the present state of society, all the hiding of ones true thoughts and emotions, this ignoring of feelings for the sake of living in polite society is a system very much in need of busting. that's just one of many systems. take hunting for example, haven't we evolved past taking life for sustenance? we don't need to be hunter gatherers any more.(not that i am apposed to gathering).

 

[DudBomb]

Yes, indigo children, they are here to help us evolve.

The indigo child concept was first popularized by the book The Indigo Children, written by the husband and wife team of Lee Carroll and Jan Tober. He claims to have learned of the concept via conversations with a spiritual entity he calls "Kryon."

They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it).

They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.

Self-worth is not a big issue; they often tell the parents "who they are."

They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).

They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.

They get frustrated with systems that are ritually oriented and don't require creative thought.

They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (nonconforming to any system).

They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.

They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").

They are not shy in letting it be known what they need.

I have all these traits does that mean I am an Indigo child? Twilight zone theme playing in the background.

 

[Full Steam]

Yes, indigo children, they are here to help us evolve.

The indigo child concept was first popularized by the book The Indigo Children, written by the husband and wife team of Lee Carroll and Jan Tober. He claims to have learned of the concept via conversations with a spiritual entity he calls "Kryon."

They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it).

They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others don't share that.

Self-worth is not a big issue; they often tell the parents "who they are."

They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).

They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.

They get frustrated with systems that are ritually oriented and don't require creative thought.

They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (nonconforming to any system).

They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.

They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").

They are not shy in letting it be known what they need.

I have all these traits does that mean I am an Indigo child? Twilight zone theme playing in the background.

I have them all too. I just read anotyer page about it, and I had all the traits from there too, and, my kids have them all as well.

What's your Myers Briggs type? I'm entp, which also might explain some of it.

I was born in the '60s though.