A higher spiritual truth to autism?

[Hedgehog Instigator]

So you are saying that hunting. Isn't a sport? So what do you consider killing for sport? And how ...elucidate!

Well most people i know hunt for food. Killing for sport means you are doing it for some type of trophy and generally disregard the meat.

 

[DudBomb]

I'm pretty sure Hedgehog Instigator meant hunting for food to eat, is not he same as hunting for sport.

This post does, in fact, contain sarcasm and "higher humor".

These statements are not necessarily in the order they were thought.

In addition, I literally, withheld emojis.

Higher Truth can rest on a plane where worldly sense of right or wrong does not exist. One the tools employed by the self righteous. No, one does not have to be religious to be self righteous.

"It takes offense to build a wall". - DudBomb, A little play on words... still working on it.

Don't worry, to many people who are radically against hunting, a human life isn't worth any more than a hairless mole rat's.

Oh, and Higher Truth, is, "Literally Hitler".

The higher you go, the closer you get to absolute truth, and who wants that.

If your truth is right for you, and my truth is right for me, wasn't Hitler's truth right for him?

I don't always use commas, but when I do, it may be for, dramatic, effect.

I post and continue to edit grammar and spelling so I may not be done yet.

I just woke up, just not sure which end is up.

 

[DudBomb]

I apologies for veering off topic, or did I?

 

[Hedgehog Instigator]

Seems to me, they took symptoms from popular disorders, reworded them and applied them to Blavatsky's theosophy.

Reading the list the first time I wondered if Hitler would have been a indigo or star child.

INTJ, but the last two can flip flop depending on mood, more so than the first two.

Interesting thought. Bkavatsky is a heavy hitter for influencing the modern new age. I often feel that these spiritual ideas are regurgitated seth books, crowley, and blavatsky. Also in theosophy violet was considered the most spiritual color it was essentially like indigo was added as a flourish. Check out leadbetters thought forms to get an idea of source material for indigos.

 

[fuðflogi]

Well most people i know hunt for food. Killing for sport means you are doing it for some type of trophy and generally disregard the meat.

But is that the only way they are able to feed themselves? If they can buy groceries or eat at a restaurant then they hunt for sport.

 

[Alcyon]

But is that the only way they are able to feed themselves? If they can buy groceries or eat at a restaurant then they hunt for sport.

Nope. Or at least not necessarily. Some, with the means and capability to humanely take wild game, may choose to do so for reasons of cost, or the taste and/or quality of the meat.

I am a thorough-going inner-city boy; it's been decades since I've even carried a firearm, so I don't have a dog in this hunt, as the apt metaphor has it. But I do know that no-one who eats "industrial" meat with its inherent appalling cruelty, as I do, can turn up their nose at the hunter.

 

[fuðflogi]

Now calm down people, I'm against killing or being cruel in any manner industrial or otherwise, I'm not turning my nose up at hunters. Didn't mean to offend anyone. Please don't shoot!

 

[Desiree W]

I'm glad this topic was brought up. I was on youtube looking for videos on autism and aspergers and found this video:

. It brings up some interesting points.

 

[pjcnet]

I think that most on the spectrum tend to not be spiritual, but that is because of what is consituted as spiritual for most faiths tend to flout common rules in the scientific field and so, because science is real, then conversily, spiritual aspect ie a higher being has to be unreal.

However, I was shown, because I allowed myself to be shown, the truth held in the bible and for one thing: our universe is millions of years old; not what is taught of a literal 6 day worth of creation. No where in the bible does it mention how old our planet it is.

The history of how the human race came to be about and how old IS clearly recorded.

I love what I read not so long ago. Many people believe without even thinking about it, past historial figures and yet, refuse to believe in Jesus yet at the same time, most will celebrate which is commonly known as his birth date, which lol is not even mentioned in the bible.

In fact, if it were not for MY Creator ( I say MY, because I know if I say: OUR, that I will be called up on that, since not everyone does believe), then there would be no science.

In the book of Job, which I am currently reading, it is written how our planet is situated and says: hanging upon nothing and guess what? It was year's later, after much theories on what our planet was hanging upon, that science "discovered" that it hangs upon nothing.

I believe in my Creator, because it makes absolute sense to me; full of common sense and logic ( I am a logical person). If something does not make sense to me, I cannot get it in to my head.

I love my Creator so much, so I guess I would be called a very spiritual person

Spritual can be very scientific too, I was a paranormal investigator for a good while and started years before the more recent "ghost hunt" craze that now sadly involves mostly non professional people going out to get frightened, often with fake groups that are making money out of them, the whole thing now really p**s** me off and it's the main reason I stopped because they have taken over and there's also now masses of totally non scientific and very unprofessional groups that have been inspired by this craze. I started back in 1996 when there was no paid public "ghost hunts" what-so-ever, in fact there was barely any groups around at all although what there was were mostly serious and professional, for a while I was part of a purely scientific group (I hate the expression, "ghost hunt" that was created mainly for marketing purposes and to sell fake TV shows like "Most Haunted" and more recently "Ghost Adventures", and they really are fake and make a mockery out of the paranormal, I have even spoken to people who confirmed this first hand and a real paranormal investigation is nothing like as portrayed on TV, for a start things don't happen all the time, you have to be very patient most of the time, often on multiple investigations). I used all sorts of scientific equipment, recorded various measurements and took E.V.P. recordings, it was all taken extremely seriously and no-one screamed or was in the slightest bit frightened, it wasn't about that. Incidentally from experience I have seen and heard hard evidence that spirit exists (well there is definitely evidence of intelligence) and so do in fact ghosts (they appear to be replays and are actually very rare), I've even caught voices answering questions on a dictaphone on more than one occasion. The amount of things I have witnessed is countless, they are officially unexplained and I would never conclude they are "ghosts" or "spirits" if I stayed 100% scientific, but I have said that only for the purposes of this forum. I know it's not scientifically proven, but I can now feel if a spirit is around and they are very real, they seem more often attracted to people who take an interest in them. To me this isn't a religion because I only believe what I have experienced and/or seen actual evidence with my own senses, there is no faith involved.

I would respond about "my creator" a lot more if this was the "Politics & Religion" forum, so I will just say that like everything else in our known existence and universe, things are very complex and I therefore very much doubt it's as simple as just 1 creator. I will also say that our understanding of our true existence is probably no more than what a bug crawling along a piece of paper understands about our world.


Regarding the original thread question, I don't see any higher spiritual truth regarding autism.

PS: I have attended spiritualist churches, I have mixed opinions on what they preach and there are obviously some fake "spiritualist mediums" around, although when I attended a spiritualist medium course I again experienced some very interesting evidence that wasn't explained, not being able to visualise however made the course very difficult for me and I suspect that being autistic causes that.

 

[fuðflogi]

I'm glad this topic was brought up. I was on youtube looking for videos on autism and aspergers and found this video:

. It brings up some interesting points.

thank you so much for this video ,i posted originally because i want us to understand that there is nothing "WRONG" with any of us other than we dont fit into what others think we should...anyway, this says it all better than i could explain. so thank you thank you, and to the rest of you...YOU ARE FINE DO WHAT YOUR DOING WE ARE HERE TO MAKE THINGS BETTER? i love you, each and every one because you are YOU your very own individual spark of GOD.

 

[Desiree W]

thank you so much for this video ,i posted originally because i want us to understand that there is nothing "WRONG" with any of us other than we dont fit into what others think we should...anyway, this says it all better than i could explain. so thank you thank you, and to the rest of you...YOU ARE FINE DO WHAT YOUR DOING WE ARE HERE TO MAKE THINGS BETTER? i love you, each and every one because you are YOU your very own individual spark of GOD.

You're so welcome. I felt the need to share and encourage. There is NOTHING wrong with us. I've been a very spiritual person throughout my life. I'm of the Christian faith. I believe things happen for a reason (most of the time). I am unique and wonderfully made. Society seems to want everyone to be the same and fit into a box. Sending lots of love and blessings your way as well.

 

[pjcnet]

I'm glad this topic was brought up. I was on youtube looking for videos on autism and aspergers and found this video:

. It brings up some interesting points.

From both scientific evidence collected and witnessed as a paranormal investigator for a number of years since 1996 and from less scientific experiences I am certain that intelligence that many people would refer to as "spirits" definitely exist and there is also most definitely a lot of truth to spiritualism, although I have seen no definitive evidence of source energy so far (well there does appear to be unexplained energies, but there no evidence of their true origin). I also agree with a lot of the video including how most school systems work by enforcing conformity rather than individuality which isn't a good thing, however I have a serious problem believing that autistic people are here to move everyone else out of the box so that they become more spiritual beings and in touch with their non physical self. A higher proportion of autistic people are mathematical and scientific, they're not especially spiritual and if anything they're overall less likely to be spiritual than the average NT person. In fact I've attended spiritualist churches and I even went on a spiritualist medium course and a few other courses, I experienced some incredible things that most definitely could not be explained by modern science, however I was definitely not very good at working with my spiritual side and this was partly because I couldn't visualise easily when meditating which is probably linked to not being able to visualise or recognise people well and that is a common autistic trait. Being able to visualise is important in spiritualism and it is something a lot of autistic people struggle with. What's more I don't remember meeting any other autistic people at spiritualist church (well not obviously known to me anyway), but I did meet a few I suspected were autistic while working purely with scientific investigation techniques to study paranormal phenomenon, again this goes against what the video is trying to make us believe.

I believe that the reason there's a lot more autistic people has nothing to do with needing to come in numbers to change society as mentioned in the video, in fact I don't believe there are that many more autistic people in proportion to the population if any at all, it's mainly that autism is now more often diagnosed with an increased understanding (there's still a long way to go however) and IF there is a greater number I believe it's more likely to be to do with something else that is scientifically explainable such as immunisation programmes for a greater number of diseases over the years (which the video actually thinks is a reason for autism, so partly contradicts itself) or even pollution.

I believe that it is important to educate children to a certain level even in many things they sometimes don't really want to learn which is the opposite of what the video suggests. There are important skills needed for basic survival that a child needs to learn as well as their special interest. I partly agree however as schools often go much further than forcing children to learn the essentials in subjects they have little interest in and this can cause them to struggle leading to issues with self confidence.

It's a great speech about not treating autistic people as limited, this does apply to many on the higher level of the spectrum and most autistic people do have a gift, but with many people on the lowest level of the autistic spectrum like my brothers there is no way anyone could say that they're not limited, for instance neither can read / write, add 2+2, count, tell the time or do most other things expected of them to live in modern society, they rely totally on others for basic survival. I love my brothers and they are what they are, but even as a loving brother I will state that they are most definitely limited and there's no way they've been born to help with the supposed spiritual awakening / revolution. I've noticed that in society today a lot of people only see higher functioning autistic people as autistic and lower functioning autistic people are often forgotten about completely, probably because they're not able to speak out about it themselves and they wouldn't be-able to for instance join this forum (it used to be other way around when virtually only low functioning autistic people were noticed, but that was when most higher functioning autistic people weren't even diagnosed).

The video talks about how there's a great change coming, like a spiritual awakening / revolution, it is feasibly possible, however various religions believe that everyone will start to awaken to their beliefs and spiritualism is a religion too. Even Scientologists truly believe that they are part of a great awakening and they're making massive progress in opening everyone up to their beliefs all over the world for the greater good, so in 25 years time are we all going to be following the teachings of the late L.Ron Hubbard (Scientology's founder)? I VERY much doubt it. I could mention a fair few other religions that think this way too and they can't all be right.

Most people think we have progressed as a species even though more people used to be spiritual many years ago and if we look at countries and/or tribes where people are a lot more spiritual even today, western society looks down at them as if they're primitive, I suspect this isn't the case however and they are in many ways a lot more advanced since most of Western society has lost these skills and no longer understands them. This again has nothing to do with autism however.

It was a very interesting video that is very relevant to this thread however, thanks for sharing it!

 

[fuðflogi]

Spritual can be very scientific too, I was a paranormal investigator for a good while and started years before the more recent "ghost hunt" craze that now sadly involves mostly non professional people going out to get frightened, often with fake groups that are making money out of them, the whole thing now really p**s** me off and it's the main reason I stopped because they have taken over and there's also now masses of totally non scientific and very unprofessional groups that have been inspired by this craze. I started back in 1996 when there was no paid public "ghost hunts" what-so-ever, in fact there was barely any groups around at all although what there was were mostly serious and professional, for a while I was part of a purely scientific group (I hate the expression, "ghost hunt" that was created mainly for marketing purposes and to sell fake TV shows like "Most Haunted" and more recently "Ghost Adventures", and they really are fake and make a mockery out of the paranormal, I have even spoken to people who confirmed this first hand and a real paranormal investigation is nothing like as portrayed on TV, for a start things don't happen all the time, you have to be very patient most of the time, often on multiple investigations). I used all sorts of scientific equipment, recorded various measurements and took E.V.P. recordings, it was all taken extremely seriously and no-one screamed or was in the slightest bit frightened, it wasn't about that. Incidentally from experience I have seen and heard hard evidence that spirit exists (well there is definitely evidence of intelligence) and so do in fact ghosts (they appear to be replays and are actually very rare), I've even caught voices answering questions on a dictaphone on more than one occasion. The amount of things I have witnessed is countless, they are officially unexplained and I would never conclude they are "ghosts" or "spirits" if I stayed 100% scientific, but I have said that only for the purposes of this forum. I know it's not scientifically proven, but I can now feel if a spirit is around and they are very real, they seem more often attracted to people who take an interest in them. To me this isn't a religion because I only believe what I have experienced and/or seen actual evidence with my own senses, there is no faith involved.

I would respond about "my creator" a lot more if this was the "Politics & Religion" forum, so I will just say that like everything else in our known existence and universe, things are very complex and I therefore very much doubt it's as simple as just 1 creator. I will also say that our understanding of our true existence is probably no more than what a bug crawling along a piece of paper understands about our world.


Regarding the original thread question, I don't see any higher spiritual truth regarding autism.

PS: I have attended spiritualist churches, I have mixed opinions on what they preach and there are obviously some fake "spiritualist mediums" around, although when I attended a spiritualist medium course I again experienced some very interesting evidence that wasn't explained, not being able to visualise however made the course very difficult for me and I suspect that being autistic causes that.

im sorry you feel that way, but,just because you dont see it by no means proves there is no higher truth, it only means you dont see it.

 

[Hallzers]

Here is my spiritual manifesto of autism, after having given it some thought:

1) Variation has purpose. There is one population of humankind, but it has many parts just like a human body. Some parts like the eye are for seeing, others like the hand are for grasping. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you." And the foot cannot say to the ear, "I don't need you." Likewise, all of the parts of humankind are different but work together. Each part has its purpose. Each person is important, of value, and of intrinsic worth.

2) Autism is not a disorder. To say that is akin to a chimp saying a human foot is a hand with a disorder because it lacks an opposable thumb and lacks dexterity. It is for running quickly, and over great distances, and gives humans the ability to bear heavy loads. We don't need opposable thumbs on our feet.

3) Autism is a gift. Beyond just stating that autism is not a disorder, I would go to the other end and declare that it is a gift, a superpower. A human foot is a gift of superiority for humankind, not a hand with a disorder. Autism is a superiority, not an inferiority. Any Aspie who thinks otherwise is an eagle raised by chickens and doesn't understand any of the above. Neurotypical? Neurocommon. Or to use the Latin, neurovulgaris.

4) Most people waste their gifts. Most people do not live up to their potential, and those of us on the spectrum are wired with abilities to grow in different areas than most, but squander them just the same. Most people are underachievers, capable of far more than that for which they settle. Mediocrity is unbecoming of those on the spectrum, and we should use our talents to the fullest for the benefit of ourselves, our families, and humanity at large.

5) Non-talents should be ignored or delegated. If you are not good at doing "X" you should hire a common person to do that work for you. If you have been raised up to be an obsessively good champion of _________, you should not stoop to any other role. You should not stoop to try to excel at roles that common people can do.


Anecdotes.
"See a man who is diligent in his work? He will stand before kings."

How have I used my gift? For the first 27 years of my life I did nothing. I lived with my parents and did volunteer work at a youth outreach center. Then, by providence I was forced to get a job, and happened into a financial office. Since I don't have very many friends, and since I get obsessed... I have relentlessly studied finance for the last 20 years, and have applied all of my intellect towards being the best. Within 2 years I was the #2 producer at my firm, and within 4 years I was a millionaire driving a Humvee (a real one, not an H2) and a Rolls-Royce. Today, I am a CFO and I hired a CEO to do all of my crap work in my company that I don't like doing. I sit on the board of my corporation, which was valued at $188 million by a bank last year. This year I am finishing my IPO to have my company traded on the Nasdaq, and I expect to to see the company grow by about two hundred million in the next year. I have given away millions of dollars to orphanages and other Christian ministries that make the world a better place.

I expect that if a "retarded boy" (me) can grow up to do all of that, those of you on the spectrum here, now reading my words, are capable of being dread champions in whatever spheres of influence you inhabit.

Is money important? Am I saying we should all focus on money? (See point #1 above) No. See that ugly car in my icon? That's my favorite car. Its beat-up and rustic, and I love it. Give me a campfire, an old canoe, and I'm happy. But if my gifting is in finance, then it is my divine purpose to be the best dread champion of finance that I can be, and to let others support my vision so that I can be a positive influence on society and the world at large.

Am I obsessed with other things too? Yes, I like speakers, but that's a hobby. We can learn to love something at which we are talented, and then we can learn excellence, and then mastery.

I hope by sharing some of my spiritual insights, that I have pushed some of you to apply yourselves to your divine purpose-- whatever that is that you may choose to cultivate and learn to enjoy. Be the best at it.

 

[fuðflogi]

wow! well put, thank you for such an uplifting post. i agree 100 % we all need to stop trying to be them and just be us,there is a reason we aren't the same,we need to stop letting people tell us we are the odd man out. i paint, taught myself pretty good at it too, not ever going to make me a millionaire but its that one thing that makes me feel like im doing exactly what im supposed to be doing and all those concerns imposed on me from neurovulgaris.(love that).
so glad i started this conversation( for those that stay on track anyway lol).
keep thinking about your divine purpose, it may be the only "cure" you need.

 

[fuðflogi]

lets face it, the human mind is a multi faceted jewel and things like schizophrenia ,autism and other "disorders" are merely some of those facets and we all need to learn to accept that everyone is unique and learn to live with everyone the way they are not the way some think we should all be. im not saying there is no such thing as mental illness, i just wonder how much of that illness is caused by trying to pound square pegs into round holes.

 

[Hidell]

I actually mean it literally.

No me, no universe.

That doesnt leave us with solipsism, as long as you have cosmic consciousness that we are all a part of.

Particles and everything else exists solely as probabilities until an observer enters the system.
"When you turn from one room to the next, when your animal senses no longer perceive the sounds of the dishwasher, the ticking clock, the smell of a chicken roasting - the kitchen and all its seemingly discrete bits dissolve into nothingness - or into waves of probability." Robert Lanza

His book, biocentrism is brilliant.

thanks for the recommendation

 

[savi83]

I believe that religion is completely made by humans as a method of controlling peoples behaviour. They all have rules that you must follow or you will end up in hell.

Years ago they never had things like forensic science to identify criminals, so saying that there is a higher being watching over you and if you commit sin you will go to hell when you die is similar to telling a child that Father Christmas won't bring them presents at Christmas if they're a bad boy/girl.

I find it bizarre how years ago the Christian religion was against homosexuality and now has gay bishops. Just goes to prove that it has been made up.

 

[Progster]

No, I don't believe in any religious faith, and I'm not a spiritual person. I don't believe in creation myths, or angels or miracles, Heaven or Hell or an afterlife or anything of that nature, or that I have a special purpose or destiny, and that my destiny is predetermined - predetermined by whom? What form would this higher power take, anyway? Who, or what, would have this power? It would have to be an extraterrestrial power. Most people (but by no means all) come to a religion via their culture, their parents and their education, and they believe in it because that is what they were told as kids by authority figures in thei life - their parents, their school teachers or their culture, but that isn't enough for me. I need more. If you want me to believe, then show me. Prove it to me. Just believing something isn't enough, I need to see it for myself. And I agree with those who say point out that religious beliefs are man-made. It's true, we weren't born with those beliefs, people have religious beliefs because someone has told them, and then they believe them. In some cultures, religious beliefs and practices are enforced by social convention or by the state even, and it is wrong to force any religious beliefs on people - by the same token it would also be wrong to try to stop people by force from holding religious beliefs and practicing them if they so desire. Believing, or not believing, is a strictly private matter, and practising religion a personal lifestyle choice which should not be determined or interfered with by the state, just as a person's sexuality is a strictly private matter which should not be controled by the state.

 

[Full Steam]

I think it's important to seperate religion from spirituality.

You could be spiritual, yet have found your own way without anyone else's help.

Religion is the codifying of spirituality, and is not required to be a spiritual person.

There will probably never be proof that will satisfy sceptics, and also there seems in life to be a thing where you find what you are looking for. Search for God and you'll find him, search for the non existence of God and you'll find reasons to support your beliefs.

There are pointers that I think make the case for the spiritual though;

• Near death experience. Read about Eben Alexander, and the commonality of experiences on NDEs.
• Quantum mechanics is explained better if everything is fundamentally connected. Then "spooky action at a distance" would actually be expected and not spooky.
• What was there before the big bang and how did it get there? Materialism explanation is the science of "give me one free miracle and I'll explain the rest".
• The majority of humans believe in something. Are they all deluded? This would be arrogant to presume. It seems like spiritualism is a key part of the human experience, so are we hard wired to believe? Why?
• I have never read a single, even remotely convincing explanation for why we dream. Ideas that it's to train us to avoid being eaten are not satisfactory to explain why we have the capacity to create entire, believable world's in our heads. That seem unlikely to have come about by accident.
• Why are all the laws of science so perfectly set for the universe to exist and life to happen?
• Explain the hard problem of consciousness.
• If you want to find indicators, look to the edges of known science, and the inexplicable. Science is great at making computers, but it is not a complete enough model to explain reality. Something else is need along side it.

It's easy to be swayed by loud voices like Stephen hawking and while he is brilliant he does overstate his case quite a lot. His idea that science has made God inessential, actually does no such thing, as there still is no explanation for why is anything here.

I first looked to science to explain reality, and it failed. Not just once, but whenever you come to the fringes, or whenever things you know to exist come into the fray, like your own consciousness.