Aspie boyfriend?

[Any Fake]

I can't really contribute in terms of the relationship (your ex is nothing like me), but I think it's really great that you're trying to understand the autism spectrum. Some people here unfortunately get frustrated by people not on the autism spectrum due to past relationships (with family, with peers, romantically, etc.), and I worry this pushes well-meaning people away. To me, your intentions look like they're in the right place, and I wish you the best of luck. I always appreciate it when people show understanding of something they don't personally experience.

Thank you so much for saying this. I feel more hopeful and happy and it really meets my needs for acceptance and understanding.

 

[Any Fake]

@Fridgemagnetman

I hear that you're feeling upset and it sounds like you're needing understanding for your perspective - or the perspective of an Aspie. It sounds like you're needing camaraderie with my ex-boyfriend because I'm guessing you're probably both on the spectrum and so by having a sense of understanding for him, maybe it helps to be a little more accepted.

I don't have to imagine what it's like to really need acceptance, inclusion, and understanding. I have a disability that, because of its nature, excludes me from huge chunks of life. I have severe, disabling symptoms when I'm around anything petrochemical, like fragrance, shampoo, and floor cleaners, to name a few. I am often told that it's too much for me to ask for accommodation at various family gatherings, events, hotels, whatever. People with this disability are told they're difficult, demanding, and hypochondriac when all we're trying to do is breathe without having a seizure.

I've seen a lot of people in my support group get sarcastic, angry, and call others names when they're frustrated by how little accommodation and awareness there is. So, I get at least that part of it.

I'm not going to address each of the semantics in your reply because I don't believe it's useful. I would rather try to connect with what you're trying to say. What I'm hearing is that you're wanting me to understand his needs and his perspective and to see my part in it.

And the reason I came into this forum is to talk about whether or not it would change things if I understood better.

 

[Any Fake]

Typically, you would have to engage with him inside one of his interests, then look for ways to expand that to include yours. I used to fall for that every time!

Yeah, I've done this. His one main interest, the Cayce readings, are our main point of connection. I was raised on them, so we're both passionate about them. He goes about it differently than me, but it's easy for us to connect on that level.

As far as stock trading, I went to a stock meeting with him as a way to spend time with him and I used to ask him how his stocks are doing on an almost daily basis. It's one of the things he lit up about, so I would ask questions to connect with him about something that he lit up about.

Before suspecting he was on the spectrum, I felt pretty hurt when he didn't do the same in return. When I would talk about work and how excited I was about what I'm learning, he would cut me off and say, "I love you, but I don't want to hear about your work". If you don't know someone is on the spectrum and you don't understand both the tendency to be blunt and the inability to feign interest, and if you think that person is neurotypical, it's pretty reasonable to feel hurt by this after making an effort to show interest in their world.

I don't know how to expand his interests to include mine. I've basically just accepted that if we talk about the Cayce readings and building a sanctuary, he'll light up and we'll get along famously.

 

[Any Fake]

I mean 'improve' in the sense of helping him better understand you, and how to communicate with you more effectively. Not 'improve' in the sense of changing him. We are very fixed, very black and white, but we can learn when there is a motive.

To be honest, this still sounds like trying to change him. Asking a person to communicate more effectively who has a hard-wiring characterized by different ways of communicating is essentially asking the person to change.

For example, he keeps his feelings and needs to himself about big life decisions, even when I ask how he feels and what he thinks. In this case, communicating more effectively would be him telling me how he feels and needs. What other way is there to communicate more effectively in that case?

And from what I understand, many people on the spectrum don't know how they feel? Or don't know how to express them?

In his case, he doesn't feel comfortable sharing it. He said he learned to keep everything to himself, particularly with an abusive father. So, he just goes silent. It always looks like he's about to say something any second now, so I wait. And after a certain amount of time, I figure he's just never going to say anything and stay silent.

So isn't that, ultimately, asking him to change?

 

[Any Fake]

I have to say that since I'm on the other side of the equation I can't really answer this directly, but the same questions figure in the Aspie's side of it too. In our case, we are mostly very rational, logical, and analytical thinkers, so often you make very little sense to us because what you think of as deep and meaningful communication flies right by us.

So, he's actually emotional and very sensitive. Very, very sensitive. He has a huge heart, he's very compassionate, he's gentle, he takes care of me and others, and I wouldn't characterize him as being primarily logical and analytical.

In fact, he has a fantastic sense of humour!!! I love his humour. If only he would get my puns, haha. I tease him that he just doesn't get the sophistication of my humour because I love witty puns and he often doesn't laugh at them. Lately, though, he's started to get excited when I make a silly one. Occasionally, he's laughed really loud and said, "Now THAT was a good pun!". We've had a lot of fun.

He's intelligent and his perspective nearly always comes from, again, the Cayce readings. He'll respond to me feeling bad about something with, "worrying is like wishing for what you don't want" or some other spiritual teaching. He's right. There are also times when I just need to hear something like, "I understand why you would feel upset about that". But I think that dynamic is actually pretty typical of any couple - not just AS/NT.

I think it would really help to understand how other AS/NT couples make it work and to answer those questions of how to communicate, how to connect.

 

[Any Fake]

She mastered reading me very quickly, so could tell when I was 'available' and when I was not, and used that knowledge to reach me when she knew I would be responsive. She also found that it didn't work to ask me open questions such as 'are you ok?', because that doesn't mean anything. 'Are you tired', 'do you have a headache', 'are you hungry' - direct and specific questions, I always responded to.

Ugh!!! I wish I could read him. He's easy to read when he's lit up and excited about something. The rest of the time, he can say he's having a good time and I can't tell the difference between that and when he's disinterested or bored. His face is blank, he shifts around, he looks up and stares at something on the ceiling, or he just sits slouched over with no distinguishing expression on his face. Since day 1 I've been telling him I have a really hard time reading him.

At Christmas, after we left his parents' place, I asked him if he enjoyed himself. He said yes, it was great. I was so surprised hearing him say this because the whole time we were there I was sure he was unhappy and bored, based on his body language. We were all smiling and his face was nearly expressionless. He was quiet a lot of the time and seemed withdrawn. I had no idea this was him having a good time.

Forgive me, but to someone who wears her heart on her sleeve, this is really hard to understand.

 

[Judge]

I think it would really help to understand how other AS/NT couples make it work and to answer those questions of how to communicate, how to connect.

Considering that's a relatively rare situation IMO, from those who manage to indefinitely sustain such a relationship, I suspect it involves one critical, yet common denominator.

- Unconditional love between two people. When neurological differences don't seriously stand in the way.

Something many of us experience every day. But with those who have four legs- not two.

 

[Any Fake]

These kind of relationships are quite hard, but you said something that is actually vital - your Aspie is 'authentic'. That is the reason relationships with us are worth it, because most of us do authentic as if our lives depend on it, and authentic is something you can trust.

I feel like there's a huge life lesson right here.

I married a Narcissist and someone I highly suspect is Psychopathic (ASPD). I thought he was the love of my life. He ended up being the most highly skilled manipulator and one of the most deceptive people I've ever known. After him, I said I just wanted to be with someone who was kind, who treated me well.

For lack of a better reference, my Aspie is exactly that. He's authentic, honest, and trustworthy. He's kind, treats me well, and takes care of me.

He's not at all like my ex-husband. The thing about a Psychopath/Narcissist is they make it easy. They mimic you and project exactly what you've always wanted. But there's a huge price to pay for it. It gets really hard, really abusive, and devastatingly soul-destroying pretty soon after you're hooked in.

With my Aspie, it's a lot more work, it's harder to connect, but I know he's there for me. I trust him. I trust that he genuinely loves me. It can be infuriatingly frustrating, but when I look at why I've been unhappy and why I left, every single reason could be attributed to an Aspie trait.

And that's why I wonder if, with a different frame of reference and a different perspective, if it would help me understand him and find workarounds. And focus on when we laugh, when we do have a good time. Because he's authentic, he's big-hearted, and he's gentle.

 

[Any Fake]

Considering that's a relatively rare situation IMO, from those who manage to indefinitely sustain such a relationship, I suspect it involves one critical, yet common denominator.

- Unconditional love between two people. When neurological differences don't seriously stand in the way.

Something many of us experience every day. But with those who have four legs- not two.

Why is it so rare? Do people on the spectrum end up dating each other? Or just not dating?

I don't think I really know what unconditional love is. To be more specific, I think I have and can love someone unconditionally, but not necessarily romantically. One of the huge lessons I learned from my marriage was not to love unconditionally. If someone is abusing you, taking advantage of you, and manipulating you, unconditional love is highly inappropriate and destructive.

I've learned love with discernment. Love with self-preservation.

There are many forms of love. The Greeks have 6 words for love to describe different types of love like passion, lust, love that grows over time, love for everyone. When I think of unconditional love, I think of philia, pragma, and agape. I would be satisfied with those types of love for the rest of my life. Eros and ludus are not where I'm at anymore and I absolutely don't feel these types of love unconditionally.

If I'm grumpy, I don't feel passionate love. I can still accept the person and feel pragma, though.

 

[Any Fake]

And the hurt caused by misunderstanding - that is not entirely an Aspie thing, so that might be more of his nature. But understanding how to better communicate will go a long way to resolving issues of that sort.

I'm confused by this.

This video is him to a T!!!!!

 

[Judge]

Why is it so rare? Do people on the spectrum end up dating each other? Or just not dating?

I think the rarity of unconditional love among humans is something without neurological distinctions. Just looking at divorce rates across the planet pretty much leaves you with a rather bleak picture of how our species as a whole relates to one another.

People in general tend to default to and expect or demand "terms and conditions" regarding how they relate to a significant other rather than a lifetime of unconditional love. Small wonder that we tend to refer to things of a short duration of time as a "honeymoon period".

I've always avoided dating like the plague. It's a social convention that's inherently too contrived from the outset. Encouraging people to be anything but themselves. At an early age I knew the only substitute I had for dating was to make friends. And that in some cases those friendships might blossom into something more substantial, but with no guarantees.

For others on the spectrum, some choose to struggle with the social ordeals of dating while others choose not to, or eventually just give up trying.

 

[Any Fake]

Perhaps you two just aren't compatible? ignore for a moment whether he is on the spectrum or not, he is who he is, you are who you are.

It's not really a good idea to be trying to change someone to suit your needs.

NT's seem to complain a lot about how Aspies don't communicate, if NT's are so great at communication why isn't their problem when they fail to communicate with an Aspie? it's a bit like English speakers complaining that they don't understand a foreigner's accent.

Now I understand why, to him, it was enough that I was raised on the Cayce readings and nothing else. I have many more facets to my lifestyle that are important to me in a match.

I need to live in the country. I'm a miserable shell of myself when I live in the city or suburbia. He works in the city and bought a house in suburbia. He said he was willing to compromise and live in the country for me.

Sometimes I think wow, two people willing to really compromise to be with each other. Other times I think, wow, other than the Cayce readings we are two very dissimilar people.

So, I dunno.

 

[Any Fake]

I think the rarity of unconditional love among humans is something without neurological distinctions. Just looking at divorce rates across the planet pretty much leaves you with a rather bleak picture of how our species relates to one another.

People in general tend to default to and expect or demand "terms and conditions" regarding how they relate to a significant other rather than unconditional love.

I've always avoided dating like the plague. It's a social convention that's inherently too contrived from the outset. Encouraging people to be anything but themselves. At an early age I knew the only substitute I had for dating was to make friends. And that in some cases those friendships might blossom into something more substantial.

For others on the spectrum, some choose to struggle with the social ordeals of dating while others choose not to, or eventually just give up trying.

Yeah, I can relate to that. Partly because of my whole fragrance thing. It's hard to find someone who doesn't wear fragrance or use laundry detergents that make me sick. So, most of the dating pool is out of reach anyway.

And yes, I completely agree about dating being contrived. I hate it. I don't like playing that game at all.

I maintain that there's a difference between unconditional love and staying in a dysfunctional relationship. In other words, you can love someone unconditionally and still need ways to make the actual day-to-day, collaborating together, making decisions together functional.

 

[Judge]

And yes, I completely agree about dating being contrived. I hate it. I don't like playing that game at all.

Something I once observed long ago that always stuck with me. Humorous as a child, but as I grew up it became something that disturbed me. - Social rituals which amounted to hypocrisy. Confused the hell out of me as a kid.

Watching a friend's older (and very attractive) sister whenever their phone rang. She'd literally charge down the stairs and God help anyone who got in her way. Yet when she got to the phone, she's just stand there and let it ring, and ring and ring. Then eventually she'd pick it up, and act quite disinterested when as usual it was a boy calling. Funny to think it was around the time of and quite reminiscent of "The Patty Duke Show".

The games people play....

 

[Any Fake]

I've lost track, but there was something important I wanted to respond to about compatibility.

A huge, huge, huge part of my dissatisfaction has had nothing to do with him, but with the circumstances. I moved here - to a city - for my dream job. I HATE it here. Like get-me-outta-this-hell kinda hating it here. I've been very sick here because cities make me sick and I've relapsed 12 years. I've gained 30lbs. I spend all my time just trying to overcome and ignore symptoms.

I own a house 3000 miles away on an acreage, with unpolluted creek water, a swimming spot in a lake 10 minutes away, beautiful hiking within an hour, organic food, fresh air, signing birds and no city noise, no cell towers, no wifi, and a huge garden. I was healthy there.

A huge piece of me wants to return home. But, my Aspie doesn't want to live there. So, that's a huge factor in all of this.

I do love him and thinking he might have Aspergers helps me a lot in understanding him. And leaving him behind to go back home feels so sad. I don't want to just throw him away and go back. I want to make sure we really gave it a fair shot.

 

[Any Fake]

Something I once observed long ago that always stuck with me. Humorous as a child, but as I grew up it became something that disturbed me. - Social rituals which amounted to hypocrisy. Confused the hell out of me as a kid.

Watching a friend's older (and very attractive) sister whenever their phone rang. She'd literally charge down the stairs and God help anyone who got in her way. Yet when she got to the phone, she's just stand there and let it ring, and ring and ring. Then eventually she'd pick it up, and act quite disinterested when as usual it was a boy calling. Funny to think it was around the time of and quite reminiscent of "The Patty Duke Show".

The games people play....

I so get you!!! I never understood those games and never fit in that way, either. What a waste of time. That's why I have been so passionate about Nonviolent Communication. It's authentic communicating of what's alive in each person to build empathy.

 

[Judge]

I do love him and thinking he might have Aspergers helps me a lot in understanding him. And leaving him behind to go back home feels so sad. I don't want to just throw him away and go back. I want to make sure we really gave it a fair shot.

I appreciate such sentiments.

In the case of all my relationships, at the time neither my girlfriend or myself had a clue that I could be on the spectrum of autism. Damn shame to go through nearly an entire lifetime and not know who or what I was relative to my difficulties with interacting with others.

Though even with an extreme sense of hindsight I know there are no guarantees of social success in dealing with a wide range traits and behaviors in which I may have some control over, or none at all in some cases.

In essence I never got that "fair shot". Always wondering in my old age whether it would have made a real difference. Maybe not. Quite often I think about the past, and increasingly wish I didn't.

For so many of us, being on the spectrum remains quite the social struggle.

 

[Any Fake]

That's so sad. I'm sorry that was your experience. It sounds hard to live with a "what if?". You just wanted a fair shot and a huge piece of understanding was missing.

I can relate in my own way. I became disabled in my early 20s and had to be extremely isolated in order to heal. And I missed huge opportunities. I'm lucky and I worked very hard to catch up later in life and I did end up landing my dream job after all.

Romantically it's always been hard. I feel huge sadness when I think back to the miscarriages I had and the abusive marriage.

Many of us live with similar regrets/nostalgia/missed opportunities and my heart goes out to you.

You speak as though it's too late? Did you want to start a family? Or have you given up dating altogether?

 

[Judge]

You speak as though it's too late? Did you want to start a family? Or have you given up dating altogether?

I'm in my 60s. Didn't stumble onto thoughts of my own autism until I was 55. Nope, the consideration of relationships are something I gave up a long time ago even before I figured out who and what I am.

And there are a lot of us out there unaccounted for to skew the statistics of autism something fierce.

LOL..when I mentioned "The Patty Duke Show" it was when it was still in prime time.

 

[Any Fake]

I bet. Is autism more prevalent nowadays than it used to be? Or just more understood? Why are there so many out there, undiagnosed, skewing stats?

My grandmother remarried in her 70s.