"Curing Autism", this bothers me

[Au Naturel]

Well, a disease doesn't have to be leprosy. It can be common cold. So yes, common cold is still bad, but it won't make you a pariah.

So maybe with autism the problem is really the history, that historically its been viewed more like leprosy than common cold, at least they were treated that way. Which means that maybe just convince people to view it as common cold and, once you succeed at it, go ahead and call it a disease.

But then again, what about not being able to play piano? Is it a disease? If not, then why would not being able to socialize be a disease?

I guess disease vs non-disease is all relative and there isn't black or white ways of drawing the line. Which would have been fine if it wasn't for the social implications. So deal with social implications by convincing NT-s to be more accepting of it (however you choose to call it), and the rest would become moot.

If it were just a matter of not playing the piano, nobody would care. Piano playing is relatively unimportant in this world. Social skills are absolutely central to life. Oversensitivity to stimuli doesn't help. Neither do any of the other traits that cohabitate under the autism label. Or the depression/anxiety/anger that goes with it.

Autism isn't a disease. It is a disability. There are things you cannot seem to do or understand or be cope with with that most people can. That's what a disability is.

You look and sound and act like anyone else but the truth is you have an invisible disability. Probably don't even see it yourself. Because it is invisible, people just assume you are being strange/lazy/obnoxious and don't try to help or understand.

If only you'd just...

Even if a medical person tells you you're autistic and you try to relay this new discovery, it just confirms how crazy you are. You're just choosing to not be normal because you're weird/lazy and now you're making up an excuse.

That is my autistic experience.

 

[Forest Cat]

If I were "me" and didn't have autism, the odds are I'd be an ordinary person. Ordinary people are not asses.

No, I didn't mean that people are asses. I meant that if I didn't have ASD I would be a different person. And no one knows what that person would be like.

 

[GypsyMoth]

A couple years ago I did meet one Christian lady here who I had a conversation with, and ask me if I wanted to be cured of Autism? I think you probably know my answer...

Earlier I commented on the other part of the OP. Now I’d like to answer this as well. I like who I am & I know myself a lot better than I know about autism. If someone were to ask me—and the question has already been raised to me not as a question but as the only ‘solution’—if I wanted to be cured of autism, my answer is “absolutely not.”

I am finding that my new job is addressing for me ‘what it means to be autistic’ on so many, fundamental levels that I feel like it is opening the door to an entirely new way of being with people. In a recent conversation with my supervisor, I mentioned that I am likely autistic and she said “I know.” She too has an autism profile (I suspected) and recognized it in me. That makes my nearest 7 co-workers all either have AS profiles or have close family who are, and another coworker is openly ND with ADHD. Actually, they’re all quite open about it. I cannot believe any of them would want to be ‘cured’. They are all exceptionally talented people who love their jobs and daily their jobs pour a huge amount of good into our community.

I am most grateful to have found myself working alongside them. It is the most positive, most collaborative work environment I have ever been in.

 

[Kalinychta]

Just because some people MISUSE religion in this way, doesn't mean that that is all religion is about. If you read the Gospels, you will see that the bulk of the argument between Jesus and the Pharesees was all about the way Jesus claimed how Pharesees misused religion. In Jesus' words, Pharesees "used as doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:7,8). Today's religions people are the same way.

However, that is not to say that God is okay with gays and stuff like that. Because when it comes to things like homosexuality then Bible condemns it. However, you will not find the Bible ever condemning autism. So just because both gays and autistics are minorities, and Bible is against gays you can't just automatically decide that Bible is against autistics too. Its not! In fact, Jesus spent much of his time DEFENDING the ostracized, which would include autistics.

As far as Christians, yes I saw Christians that have bad attitude towards autism. But Christians do not represent Christianity as a whole. It is always important to go back to the Bible and see whether Bible actually backs up what Christians you are talking to believe.

With this prelude, I had some bad experiences with Christians. In particular, I remember Christians saying autism is demonic and autistics need deliverance. But, what I realized later, is that this whole deliverance business is part of Pentacostal/Charismatic movement. Those particular Christians didn't identify themselves as such, but it is common practice to purposely skip the name of your denomination in order not to lose authority in case your audience doesn't like that denomination. But from what I learned later, they were almost certain Pentacostal/Charismatic. I wouldn't find Baptist talking about deliverance and stuff. If only I knew it back then, I wouldn't have taken it so personally.

I don't know much about Orthodox Christianity as I only came to believe in Jesus when I was in US, so the Christianity I was focused on was various branches of Protestantism. But my advice would be: try to find out whether what you are dealing with is specific to Orthodoxy. Don't dismiss the whole Christianity just because you don't like certain denominations. Find the denominations where you fit in better.

I’ve read the Bible. As mythology, it’s unremarkable. As a religious and moral treatise, it’s terrifying. I’ve definitely met enough Christians to make me, nowadays, terrified of them, as opposed to merely annoyed with them, as I was before recent events. As a woman, and an autistic woman, I see Christianity as a hate group. So, it absolutely doesn’t surprise me, and is by no means outside of my personal experience, to hear that Christians believe a cure for autism is an order. But I mean, it’s not like that’s anything new.

 

[Sherlock77]

I’ve read the Bible. As mythology, it’s unremarkable. As a religious and moral treatise, it’s terrifying. I’ve definitely met enough Christians to make me, nowadays, terrified of them, as opposed to merely annoyed with them, as I was before recent events. As a woman, and an autistic woman, I see Christianity as a hate group. So, it absolutely doesn’t surprise me, and is by no means outside of my personal experience, to hear that Christians believe a cure for autism is an order. But I mean, it’s not like that’s anything new.

I hear you, but please don't lump all Christians together, certain elements do resemble what you're saying, but I would say that most do not think as extreme as that... My church certainly doesn't

 

[Polchinski]

I’ve read the Bible.

and

So, it absolutely doesn’t surprise me, and is by no means outside of my personal experience, to hear that Christians believe a cure for autism is an order.

So can you show me the exact passages of the Bible that would support the idea of cure for autism?

I think the Christians that support the cure, and yourself, make the same mistake. Namely, the assumption that the Bible promotes something when it doesn't.

 

[Rachie]

If some autistic's have wanted their autism cured and if they are like level 3 and are not verbal then I am not going to say anything about that, just as long as things are done respectfully. I though believe that God created them and knows how to communicate with them. If they became verbal, this opens up for them to serve their faith more in the church. I have seen this with some videos that are on Youtube.

I have autism and score 2 in the Communication and Social ones, hypersensitivity as well so am moderate in those areas. There are some 1's as well. I wonder if those who have said they have been cured still have a moderate degree of Autism residual. Me myself I don't pray for a cure, I have been prayed for though for management and I think it helped me to manage with being overwhelmed.

For me as well, I was given a Spiritual gift despite having Autism at 17 and an eating disorder and it has walked with me through my life and at one point was serving my faith with it in Church. Well, it obvious God didn't chose to heal my Autism but use it. To read how it all came about there is a link in my signature to my blog.

 

[Crossbreed]

Hello & welcome.

I wonder if those who have said they have been cured still have a moderate degree of Autism residual.

I believe that ASD1 is the cured/healthy form of autism. It is the severe co-morbid conditions --not the autism itself-- that creates the main troubles for 2s & 3s.
https://autlanders.blogspot.com/2019/07/autism-subtypes.html

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I find the idea of “curing autism” to be both insulting and extremely ableist. First of all, I literally have no idea what it’s like to not have autism. Sure I was diagnosed when I was 19 but the symptoms were always there. I never had a moment in my life where I didn’t have autistic traits. Second, by wanting a cure, you’re basically telling me that I’m not good enough to be who I am naturally and that I must change a core aspect of my life. There is nothing wrong with my life and I’ve learned to adapt to life having autism. I am not sick and dying and I’m not contagious. I hate the idea that people think that you can “cure” autism. Why is it okay to treat autism like it’s some dangerous thing that needs to be eradicated but if you do the same thing to any other disability like diabetes or paralysis, people chew you out for being ableist and not being a good person? A disability is still a disability no matter what it is and all forms of ableism is wrong.

 

[Crossbreed]

There is broken and there is different.

• Autism (as well as giftedness & left-handedness) are "different."
• Severe co-morbids (with or without autism) are "broken."

The latter is a type of TBI. While such are deserving of love & respect, it will never meet the medical definition of "healthy."

 

[Au Naturel]

I am firmly in the ASD 1 category. If I could "cure" my autism and it was something within my means to do so, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd happily erase 40 points of IQ to be rid of it. Autism has given me nothing but rejection and exclusion my entire life. There is no benefit to it.

I am where I am despite autism.

 

[Rachie]

Hello & welcome.

I believe that ASD1 is the cured/healthy form of autism. It is the severe co-morbid conditions --not the autism itself-- that creates the main troubles for 2s & 3s.
https://autlanders.blogspot.com/2019/07/autism-subtypes.html

Thank you. This is one of the videos I have seen. I went into watch it again today and they do indeed seem to have some residual Autism. They have talked about hand gestures in later life.

 

[Rachie]

Hello & welcome.

I believe that ASD1 is the cured/healthy form of autism. It is the severe co-morbid conditions --not the autism itself-- that creates the main troubles for 2s & 3s.
https://autlanders.blogspot.com/2019/07/autism-subtypes.html

Read your blog today. Was looking for a study that showed differences to determine what is the brain injury. But it's just more severe I guess. I am level 2 but it seems like it can go higher at times and I see it as a gift still. But I accept your theory. Thanks for posting.

 

[Crossbreed]

...I see it as a gift still.

The part you were born with is (still) a gift.

 

[TBRS1]

I have a bad backstory due to one of the major religions (the one that brutalized children with nuns), so I can't talk religion without cursing.

I will note, though, that every religion claims it's the OTHERS that are bad, and their favored religion would NEVER do such a thing.

I have had a helluva life due to ASD, but I don't want a cure. If I was cured I have no idea who I'd be, but the me I am now is pretty certain I'd find that person as boring as sox since everything I enjoy and find interesting is derived from being ASD.

I don't need a cure. I need self righteous people to stop inflicting their attitudes on me, and to stop treating me as if I were an inferior person living an inferior life.

Because I'm not.

 

[Rachie]

The part you were born with is (still) a gift.

Excellent stuff.
I have a lot of condtions spot the difference. I would say the delirum lol was the brain injury.
Have many of the listed gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit
Anorexia
Autism 1/2 when tested but can go higher sits at level 3 in some i'm sure now.
Had a delirum due to Anorexia at 28 and 50.
Have an allergy
Have a heart condition and renal clearly nothing to do with the brain.
Have a circulation condition as well again cleared lol
Have GI stuff
Have had lungs as well had pneumonia last year and use an inhaler from time to time.
See a neurologist
Been getting fugues states

Not adding stuff not diagnosed with, likely suffer from anxiety and OCD as well.

Missed some out lol

 

[Crossbreed]

Autism 1/2 when tested but can go higher sits at level 3 in some i'm sure now.

1 means needing the least support, where 3 means needing the most.

In the USA,

• 3s usually have a guardian;
• 2s usually have a conservator, but no guardian;
• 1s have neither.

 

[Tom]

After many complete read throughs of the bible (including 6 in the last 7 years) I can't say I have ever found anything that indicates the autistic condition. But that is not particularly surprising, as many medical conditions aren't mentioned. So I haven't seen any specific guidence in the bible about it.

Some of the co-morbids are mentioned, such as anxiety and depression and there is some guidence on how to deal with those. But they did not have the array of medications we have now and it it therefore more of a therapy approach, conciously working thru the issues. And there are many examples of things that can't be healed or cured. Short of the 2nd coming we all will die of one thing or another after all.

I am Christian and I have run into individuals that do seem to believe that mental conditions and disorders can be treated without medication. But it has been very rare or at least rarely have I spoken to any in such a way that their opinion would be expressed. Fortunately I haven't had any Pastors that preached that and I have had a pile of pastors as result of so many military moves, and many of them were very conservative bible based types.

Now the concept of medicines is mentioned occasionally and not condemned but instead portrayed in a positive light. Even alcohol is mentioned once as a remedy to stomach problems. And truth be known it seems to be suggested once for people in deep despair (I believe in proverbs) which may be a pyschological application. But I can't say I know my interpretation of the verse is correct. Excess use of alcohol is warned against however many many times.

So my view is there is nothing wrong with medicines whether for physical or pyschological conditions. Just don't experiment on yourself or anyone else. Follow the Doctor's instructions.

 

[jsilver256]

Some things that have helped me in my struggle with anxiety - Adam4d.com helped me a lot with understanding anxiety from the Biblical perspective. He doesn't say why he got the anxiety, but from his other posts, I infer he was an alcoholic and a heavy marijuana user in the past, and the time he stopped also lines up the time he developed severe anxiety.

The Bible doesn't mention autism but there's lots of verses that deal with symptoms. My favorite is this one:

But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, “It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers.” And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, “Arise and eat.” And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again. And the angel of the Lord came again a second time and touched him and said, “Arise and eat, for the journey is too great for you.” And he arose and ate and drank, and went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights to Horeb, the mount of God.

TL;DR:
Elijah: Kill me now, I can't go on
God: (ignores him) Here, have a nap and some cake
Elijah: OK

It's been suggested that Apostle Paul was autistic. Asexual, deeply talented and philosophical, struggled with anxiety, etc. But these are only speculations.

 

[The Pandector]

I have no problem with a group praying over a willing autist; they will prove to be effective or ineffective. If God wants to make an autistic person into an NT person, no doubt he can do it. However, IMO, it is probably praying against the Lord’s will. I believe that the Lord knit us together in our mother’s womb; we’re not liable to convince him he made a mistake. Likewise, never heard of the Lord changing a person’s sex. For every unusual idea, it seems there’s a ‘Christian’ group that carries it to a ridiculous extreme.

It is tempting to think of Paul as autistic, for the reasons mentioned. He kept his interest collection very tight and focused. His writing encompasses the known and unknown universe, but is meticulously reasonable.

I have to wonder about Jeremiah. He was so very logical, and kept making the mistake of thinking that people are logical; makes me think of me. But, he operated according to his beliefs, come hell or high water; you know how single minded those autists can be. He was also very open to God’s method of communication, not doubting at all. Of course, in the end it doesn’t matter if he could be labeled autistic; he was created for his job and you were created for yours.