Direct involvement in research

[Crossbreed]

I think @Rahere is raising the issue that the whole area around what is currently described as the autism spectrum has not been properly or fully looked into, and that currently, particularly at what is currently seen as the 'high' end of the spectrum, the situation needs reviewing, particularly with help from people who are allegedly in the category...

I didn't pull any of that out of his dialogue. I am glad that you did.

He has said he is already working towards this endeavour with an autism organisation,...

I (and other autistics) have worked in the same capacity with the leadership at US Autism Association.

 

[Rainbowcat]

I was HQ Accountant, then Head of Finance of the Western European Union. Because we were a small, and therefore necessarily highly polyvalent, International Organisation, I was the only one in the Finance team with military experience, and so wore the Ops Finance hat too. When Albania collapsed in 1997, that meant my previous experience as Cadbury Schweppes Chief Dealer in the Group Treasury, backed by first-hand training by Eddie George and Mervyn King while middle-ranking managers in the Bank of England, was invaluable in restabilising their economy, and then a prestigious pensioner in Malta led to a conversation which went, "Well, strange you should ask. We'd like to join the Euro." Which meant pathfinding their accession. From there, completing Gandhi's unfinished business. That could only be capped by the full eschatology - which duly delivered.

I realised quite early on I'm a generalist by necessity. My degree's in Business Administration and French, but the Eschatology has left me with new discoveries in the roots of the Renaissance, so right now I'm an external researcher and founding member of the Warburg Institute's Esoteric Studies Reading Group, the schola named as The Library of the Weird by the New Yorker. My 1978 undergraduate thesis was a study of Counterpurchase, which earned me an MI5 viva when I investigated the exceptions to the rule and discovered a covert drain on the Warsaw Pact satellite states economies paying for the USSR military. That was unsustainable in the medium term, and the resulting superforecast indicated economic implosion in 1988-9. The metamorphosis happened about five years later, and WEU's new Sherpa wrangler, PA to the Head of Council Secretariat, walked into my life in 1986, in a clarsach adult evening course. We discovered there was something there, so the Secretary General took an interest, and rather than footle around, when he had us at his table at the 1988 Christmas lunch, I came to him on his own ground, giving the heads up on what was still on course. As a result, I was on the must-have list when we moved into full ops mode.

I'm also an occasional participant in Birkbeck College's Weekend University, a group of external students of psychology at undergraduate-masters level. I can generally hold my own at doctoral level, indeed my 2015 paper which attracted governmental interest was in a global resource issue my father had had a hand in forty years before. As a hobby, I used to sing, having been given useful guidance by Brenda Evans, Sir Geraint's lady, and after putting the key under the door of WEU in 2015 became quite proficient, performing at a fairish level. Traumatic experience caused in adolescence put an end to that, so after sitting in on Bessel van der Kalk's Boston Trauma Research Foundation's annual conference (which took me two sittings to get up to speed on, first to identify jargon and stances, second the details), I was in a position to generalise the treatment options and select the best, with a degree of experience from having accidentally healed one instance. I hope to clear the complex mess in a couple of weeks time.

One matter to be clear on, my experience shows that my path was built for me. My brains are there to cope with the adorative side of a very dynamic relationship with the divine, and there's no way I either could or would have put myself on that path. Indeed, when we decided not to, we were corrected, with the finance slot appearing exactly synchronously with my redundancy to the second! That my planning would land me in the setting needed for the future eschatological work, picking up another future staffer on the way, was a typical example of the chain serendipity PastelPetals talked of at the start of this thread. It's not chance at all, of course, just you getting into tune with what you're supposed to ve doing, divine mentoring.

That sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Yes , i agree with the point being aligned with the divine. This is what i am trying to do with my life.

 

[Rahere]

I think @Rahere is raising the issue that the whole area around what is currently described as the autism spectrum has not been properly or fully looked into, and that currently, particularly at what is currently seen as the 'high' end of the spectrum, the situation needs reviewing, particularly with help from people who are allegedly in the category.

He has said he is already working towards this endeavour with an autism organisation, where they are trying to understand what exactly a melt down is, how/why it occurs in relation to the way the brain is functioning. He feels strongly that the current way of understanding things in this area of high functioning autism or whatever it should be called, is incorrect, and that it results in a lack of resourcing and proper education and support for those in the category described.

I find what he is saying really interesting, and although I am having to work hard to understand and follow his points, it's well worth while. He has taken trouble to say a number of times that he is in no way unmindfull of the needs and value of all who are along the spectrum of autism, as it is currently understood, and does not want to detract from any efforts and ways to help where help is needed, however he wants, based on his own experience and others he knows of, to understand and utilise how he is, and how some people can be, better.

He is angry that this has been neglected, and feels let down, and that he and others have much to offer if better understood and valued, rather than being stigmatised. That's what I ve picked up, anyway, very interesting stuff, hope to hear more. I certainly feel that back in the day I could have been more useful than I have been, if better understood, or understood at all, but I spent my life wondering why I am the way I am, and doing lots of therapy. I hope for better for future generations.

Exactly. My anger is at the misrepresentation of our traits, and I'm ONLY talking about what I know about, personally. However, there's a lot more others can add, and I must certainly don't want to do a Temple Gradin on you. A lot of what's said is cop-out, "I think differently", for example. In what way? I think logically, but built a wide base of knowledge to a fairly deep level when young. That wasted a lot of time, though, as it was written for NTs. It's now 100 years since Binet looked at IQ, and all the work's gone into low-performance, out of sympathy, but not necessarily fruitfully. We've got issues at the top end, it's been presumed we can look after ourselves, so let's do so! Actively.

A lot of it's left-hand brain, factual quantitative. But I suspect we're equally highly active in the right-hand emotive qualitative as well.

My first agenda point is to survey where we are. I see an extension to normal linear mentation, into networked logic, and a general field of The Weird. This then leads to scoping.
The next is to get these studied properly. Get academic studies on the books. The Koestler Institute proved how not to do it, pure science, Psychology doesn't constrain itself that way, though.

So take the ball on, folks. Please can you say how it is for you, not in jargon terms the shrinks might understand, but in ways a newby might. The Tavistock Clinic lost my cerdit when I discovered they'd not met their standards of transparency in the 1960s, and the UK High Court recently removed their authority to decide for underage completely, in a different sextor, admittedly, but for the same behaviour. That's the home of Freud and Jung, and many psychologists take their high-handed cues from them.


Then comes pure research. Are there lessons to be drawn and areas to experiment in?
This is pure academe, in a new sub-domain. Work's being done near to it in the 3rd Sector, see Mosby's Complementary and Alternative Medicine as a foundation text.

 

[Rahere]

I think @Rahere is raising the issue that the whole area around what is currently described as the autism spectrum has not been properly or fully looked into, and that currently, particularly at what is currently seen as the 'high' end of the spectrum, the situation needs reviewing, particularly with help from people who are allegedly in the category.

He has said he is already working towards this endeavour with an autism organisation, where they are trying to understand what exactly a melt down is, how/why it occurs in relation to the way the brain is functioning. He feels strongly that the current way of understanding things in this area of high functioning autism or whatever it should be called, is incorrect, and that it results in a lack of resourcing and proper education and support for those in the category described.

I find what he is saying really interesting, and although I am having to work hard to understand and follow his points, it's well worth while. He has taken trouble to say a number of times that he is in no way unmindfull of the needs and value of all who are along the spectrum of autism, as it is currently understood, and does not want to detract from any efforts and ways to help where help is needed, however he wants, based on his own experience and others he knows of, to understand and utilise how he is, and how some people can be, better.

He is angry that this has been neglected, and feels let down, and that he and others have much to offer if better understood and valued, rather than being stigmatised. That's what I ve picked up, anyway, very interesting stuff, hope to hear more. I certainly feel that back in the day I could have been more useful than I have been, if better understood, or understood at all, but I spent my life wondering why I am the way I am, and doing lots of therapy. I hope for better for future generations.

I'm sniffing at a possible Uni affiliation after comments on the edge of a NeuroTheology seminar went well. I'll see what happens

 

[Crossbreed]

So take the ball on, folks. Please can you say how it is for you, not in jargon terms the shrinks might understand, but in ways a newby might.

Many of us have made autism a special interest, so we know the jargon whether we use it or not. I have worked technical helpdesk jobs before, so I always adjust my language to the listener, if I can get a handle on them.

 

[Rahere]

I didn't pull any of that out of his dialogue. I am glad that you did.

I (and other autistics) have worked in the same capacity with the leadership at US Autism Association.

UK National Autistic Society supervisor level.

 

[Crossbreed]

UK National Autistic Society supervisor level.

I think that we are coming at the same problem from different angles.

I don't think that we are going to get the respect (that you advocate for) until the concept of neuro-diversity is embraced by the medical community at large. Our (good) autism societies, here, recognize it, but that is as far as it goes.

 

[Crossbreed]

UK National Autistic Society

So, are they on-board with the concept of neuro-diversity?
(Some of our "autism" organizations are not.)

 

[Rahere]

I think that we are coming at the same problem from different angles.

I don't think that we are going to get the respect (that you advocate for) until the concept of neuro-diversity is embraced by the medical community at large. Our (good) autism societies, here, recognize it, but that is as far as it goes.

Fear often is the fruit of ignorance. These aren't bad men, just experts. As in ex=has been, spurt=drip under pressure. The recent history's been one of reaction, self-justification. Over-excitability? By comparison with dull milquetoast teachers. Give them some insight - and we're the real experts, we live with it 24/7 lifelong - and they'll sign up. Look at Temple Gradin. Nobody else had the courage to speak.

I've posted an online seminar day on neurodiversity at the end of next month separately.

 

[Rahere]

I think that we are coming at the same problem from different angles.

I don't think that we are going to get the respect (that you advocate for) until the concept of neuro-diversity is embraced by the medical community at large. Our (good) autism societies, here, recognize it, but that is as far as it goes.

Nobody's ventured any ideas on how they think yet, though. I can only speak for myself, does it ring any kind of bell? The fact we make any kind of sense at all to an NT and conform to some kind of logic gives me hope. Imagine what a fully-telepathic group might do to linear communications like speech, for example!

It's one reason I tend to hit jargon a bit, to pack an entire side-thread into a single word so readers don't need to go haring off after it and can stick to the main thread of what I'm talking about. My Warburg studies include big chunks of the reality used by some prime conspiracy theories to lend themselves credibility, and I don't want folks importing the guff with the reality, for example.

 

[Thinx]

I think it would be good to start a new thread, write the the question clearly, and ask for responses.

Is the question, What is your thinking like? If so, that could be the thread title.

It might also be good to add some potential sub questions as prompts, such as, do you notice your thinking tends to branch in different directions, or is it more linear and straightforward? How complex does it get? How does your thinking link with your verbal/written communication? Do you think in pictures or like a film? Or how?

Are you conscious of thinking logically? Do emotions come into your thinking?

Right brain can be more creative, do you have a creative or empathic or telepathic feel to some of your thinking? What is it like? How do you use it? Do you feel understood?

What do you see as different about your thinking, compared to that of neurotypicals?

And/ or other questions or prompts.

 

[Rahere]

What I'd like to do first is define the wider area so we're not flailing around at crossed purposes. Indeed, if you'd like to take the lead, please do so. I'm a pathfinder by nature, and above all else don't want to frighten people off by my attitude. Don't forget some folk have complex/multiple traits. I'd suggest

1. Mentation
2. Paranormal (in the sense of beyond normal) skills
3. Meltdowns
4. Management
5. Education
6. Socialisation
7. Employment
8. Health
9. The Law
10. ...

This is why I was asking about a subforum, so it's not distracted by the mainstream ASD needs. It's already painful for them, and I'd greatly appreciate the ability to be discrete so as not to make it worse.

 

[Rahere]

That sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Yes , i agree with the point being aligned with the divine. This is what i am trying to do with my life.

That sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Yes , i agree with the point being aligned with the divine. This is what i am trying to do with my life.

I got iinto the heavy stuff by listening. The young Samuel. Cut out the gabble, drop into meditation, and listen.

 

[Thinx]

What I'd like to do first is define the wider area so we're not flailing around at crossed purposes. Indeed, if you'd like to take the lead, please do so. I'm a pathfinder by nature, and above all else don't want to frighten people off by my attitude. Don't forget some folk have complex/multiple traits. I'd suggest

1. Mentation
2. Paranormal (in the sense of beyond normal) skills
3. Meltdowns
4. Management
5. Education
6. Socialisation
7. Employment
8. Health
9. The Law
10. ...

.

Not sure what you mean, can you say more about what the list is for?

 

[Telepath John]

One matter to be clear on, my experience shows that my path was built for me. My brains are there to cope with the adorative side of a very dynamic relationship with the divine, and there's no way I either could or would have put myself on that path. Indeed, when we decided not to, we were corrected, with the finance slot appearing exactly synchronously with my redundancy to the second! That my planning would land me in the setting needed for the future eschatological work, picking up another future staffer on the way, was a typical example of the chain serendipity PastelPetals talked of at the start of this thread. It's not chance at all, of course, just you getting into tune with what you're supposed to ve doing, divine mentoring.

Hi,

I am also a big advocate for working with our divine planner. I see this relationship as a Love Bond.

John

 

[Rahere]

Not sure what you mean, can you say more about what the list is for?

The field of interest is wider than just mentation. I think we need to treat high-performance as virgin territory, describing all facets of the subject from the sociological to the downtight freaky, preferably with eyewitnesses. I mean, what I've handled just ain't normal, and I'm not alone in it. It's the definition of normal that's wrong, because however much my father's engineering scepticism makes me want to count twice, the result remains the same, I understand my weird and have accurately predicted where it would go next. I'd like others with like backgrounds to have a say. Bugger the Blavatsky BS and all the noise that's echoed down the years, reality check 101, what gives empirically? What when where why how.
Some of it intersects with other traits, giftedness for example, which isn't constrained to high-performance.

 

[Thinx]

I see. From what I can tell, there are certainly a range of people here with particularly strong gifts in certain areas from what people have mentioned anecdotally, but maybe a lot of the people you may also want to contact would be elsewhere, as like you, they tend to get headhunted or do very well in their niche work. This usually provides for any lacks they might otherwise experience socially or relationally. Many of them won't be diagnosed I imagine, or see themselves as neurodiverse except in being exceptional.

So maybe what we could do here, is ask people for what they regard as their strengths in the areas of interest, and also what has held them back in terms of utilising their strengths, within themselves, such as meltdowns and overwhelm, or from others or their environment?

 

[Tom]

Speaking of IQ, did you know that fans of Professional Wrestling fans have the highest average IQ of the top six American Sports?

WWE Fans average highest IQ among sports fans according to new study | The SportsRush

 

[Tom]

I just want to add, I'm not really sure what IQ tests measure. To me they seem mainly a test of how well you do at puzzles, created by people who like, and are really good at puzzles.

And man do I suck at puzzles. The only way I could do the above is break the frame, arrange the squares and glue it back together. But that has to count for something right?

 

[Thinx]

I just want to add, I'm not really sure what IQ tests measure. To me they seem mainly a test of how well you do at puzzles, created by people who like, and are really good at puzzles.

View attachment 67260


And man do I suck at puzzles. The only way I could do the above is break the frame, arrange the squares and glue it back together. But that has to count for something right?

You see I never would have thought of that. Genius! Also, until you posted that picture, I never realised that was what you were meant to do with those puzzles. Get the numbers in order. I wondered what the point of them was...