Do you have trouble making friends?

[Len Huppe]

Are you like me in that making friends has always been a challenge? I have struggled with friendships for pretty much my entire life. The friendships that I have managed to form have always faded away over time as we drifted apart somehow. I now know that having Asperger Syndrome has played no small part in that. That lead me to seek answers to the riddle of friendships. I recently came across a presentation by Tony Attwood where he explains why it is that Aspies struggle with friendships. Its a long talk but you can watch in parts. That was what I did. I was so excited by the talk that I wanted to share it with community. Its too good to not recommend it to other Aspies. If you have never heard Tony Atwood speak you will love him. He speaks in a language that we can all understand.

 

[Kalinychta]

I’ve never really tried to make friends. I prefer solitude. I also don’t find most people very interesting. I have one really good friend and a close relationship with my sister, and I am more than satisfied with them. Too many people in my life would overwhelm me.

I’m watching the lecture now, but do you want to maybe sum up the video for us?

 

[Len Huppe]

I’ve never really tried to make friends. I prefer solitude. I also don’t find most people very interesting. I have one really good friend and a close relationship with my sister, and I am more than satisfied with them. Too many people in my life would overwhelm me.

I’m watching the lecture now, but do you want to maybe sum up the video for us?

Hi Kalinychta,

You are not alone in preferring solitude. I have known many people over the years who were happy to be left alone. The explanation that Tony Attwood offers is that in solitude an Aspie's social dysfunction essentially goes away. The reason for this is that there is no need for social interaction. Therefore social anxiety does not come into play as much. That may or may not apply to you individually since we all respond differently to being on the spectrum.

If I had to summarize the talk I would say that its about reading the signals that other people send us. This applies to both facial expressions and body language. Some signals are like a traffic light turning green. That is a signal that its safe to proceed. Under those circumstances its ok to approach. Other signals are like a yellow light and signal that its time to slow down. Under those conditions its ok to approach but its best to keep it brief and get to the point quickly. Lastly there are signals that are a red light and signal that its time to stop. Whatever you want to say will have to wait, at least for the time being. If you can learn to read the signals then you will know how to proceed.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Jeremiah]

I only have few friends, all met through my hobbies.
And my friendship with them isn't really that strong, either, as I very rarely interact with them outside those hobbies.

 

[Thinx]

Yes I always found it hard to make friends, though I generally had 1 good friend from secondary school on wards, and was part of a group by 6th form. But then university, back to square one. I haven't been able to stay in touch with friends after leaving a job or moving house, even if they are important, good friends.

I will watch the video, but I don't think on the whole the issue is about nonverbal communication. It's more profound than that, perhaps relating both to processing in real time, and to executive function or lack of.

 

[Len Huppe]

I only have few friends, all met through my hobbies.
And my friendship with them isn't really that strong, either, as I very rarely interact with them outside those hobbies.

Joining a hobby club is one way to meet people. Its easy to connect with other club members because you share a common interest. The trick I think is to foster growth in your friendship by finding other things to share bedsides your hobby.

If its any consolation neurotypicals also have to put a lot of effort into meeting people and forming friendships.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Len Huppe]

Yes I always found it hard to make friends, though I generally had 1 good friend from secondary school on wards, and was part of a group by 6th form. But then university, back to square one. I haven't been able to stay in touch with friends after leaving a job or moving house, even if they are important, good friends.

I will watch the video, but I don't think on the whole the issue is about nonverbal communication. It's more profound than that, perhaps relating both to processing in real time, and to executive function or lack of.

Hi Thinx,

You made a good point. While Tony Attwood makes a solid argument about reading the signals, that alone cannot possibly solve the problem. If you are unable to approach people face-to-face then you are in trouble before you even start. However that is a skill that can be developed. In that case I think that being able to read the signals would allow you to use better timing, and that would increase your chances of success.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Misery]

I just outright gave up on it. There's a couple of reasons for it:

1. Most people are just boring. Very rare that I meet anyone I share any interests with. Usually, most adults only seem to talk about exactly 3 things: sports (bleh), gossip about others (bleh!), and politics (BLEGH!!!) Just... ugh. I cant stand being around most people. I have trouble tolerating family sometimes. Okay, often. And on top of that, most seem only interested in watching TV. They dont DO anything. Very rarely I might meet some of the geek crowd, but... yeah, not often. And even then it usually doesnt click.

2. Most people seem to think that it's impossible to have a good time without alcohol. I dont drink myself, and usually cant stand being around anyone that's had some. Watching their personality devolve in real-time is... not an activity I particularly relish. Some are worse than others of course.

3. Herd/group mentality. Need I even explain this one? Embarrassing to watch.

4. I cant deal with anyone that is really closed-minded. I doubt I have to explain this one too much to anyone on the spectrum... we all know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that crap. But often people latch on to such frivolous reasons to be jerks. Or they attack someone simply for that person being themselves (as someone with gender issues, I get this alot). My favorite though is the ol' "if you dont have a JOB, you're WORTHLESS!" bit. Ah, how many times I've heard that. Because, you know, I'm only worth something if I'm standing in a Walmart saying "hello" every 5 seconds like a scarecrow with a broken record player shoved up it's butt.

5. Far too many of them are dumber than a sack of hammers.

Just.... ugh. There's times when I feel a bit lonely, but then I remember what people are like. I do have a couple of friends, but each is just as much of a strange social outcast as I am. On a day-to-day basis though, I've got my dogs, and why would I need more than that?

 

[Rasputin]

Are you like me in that making friends has always been a challenge? I have struggled with friendships for pretty much my entire life. The friendships that I have managed to form have always faded away over time as we drifted apart somehow. I now know that having Asperger Syndrome has played no small part in that. That lead me to seek answers to the riddle of friendships. I recently came across a presentation by Tony Attwood where he explains why it is that Aspies struggle with friendships. Its a long talk but you can watch in parts. That was what I did. I was so excited by the talk that I wanted to share it with community. Its too good to not recommend it to other Aspies. If you have never heard Tony Atwood speak you will love him. He speaks in a language that we can all understand.

Yes, I have always had difficulty making friends. I did not really have any friends in high school, but I had a lot to do with that. I grew up in a dysfunctional family, and I was ashamed for anyone to know. So I built a virtual wall that no one could get through. At my 40 year high school reunion, many people talked with me and said they never really knew me, even though I was elected most likely to succeed in my senior year. I did not date in high school, and was clueless when a beautiful girl, a majorette, asked me to take her to our class Prom. Forty-five years later I recognize what a dumbass I was for not taking her to the Prom.

In college, I had one friend who competed with me in Math and Physics classes. We were generally recognized as "brains" by class mates and faculty. He graduated with joint majors in physics, math, and computer science. I graduated with joint majors in chemistry, math, and computer science. I have no idea who was smartest, but we still stay in touch via Facebook. Despite my academic prowess (or maybe because of it) I was an utter failure at dating.

After college, I acquired skills in attracting and interacting with women by going out to clubs and learning how to dress and act in social situations. I can honestly say that I do not have anxiety around women now, and I do not exert effort masking. With men, however, I have had one close male friend in 40 years, and he died four years ago. I have had short friendships which ended because after I came to know them I found them to be dishonest or untrustworthy. Honesty trust and loyalty are essential for anyone to become my friend. Recently, I became friends with a woman at work, and she introduced me to her husband. He and I are friends now, but only time will tell if it lasts. I would like to be friends with both him and his wife, because we have a lot in common.

Now despite my ease in interacting with women, my wife and I have issues. I sometimes make comments about other people in private that she finds offensive. Also, I do not experience feelings and emotions as she does, so we have this emotional distance between us. I also like to tease, and she hates to be teased. She says I act much younger than my age, and I think she acts older than her age. I am actually one year older than her.

I have not read any of Tony Attwood's books, so I don't know if I would identify with his experiences or not. I do know that I identify with many on this forum.

 

[Ezra]

I am not equipped with the friend chip so to speak. There are people I know and like and vice versa that's about it. The only kind of "relationship" there is is my same age cousin I was raised with. We are like fraternal twins.

 

[Len Huppe]

I just outright gave up on it. There's a couple of reasons for it:

1. Most people are just boring. Very rare that I meet anyone I share any interests with. Usually, most adults only seem to talk about exactly 3 things: sports (bleh), gossip about others (bleh!), and politics (BLEGH!!!) Just... ugh. I cant stand being around most people. I have trouble tolerating family sometimes. Okay, often. And on top of that, most seem only interested in watching TV. They dont DO anything. Very rarely I might meet some of the geek crowd, but... yeah, not often. And even then it usually doesnt click.

2. Most people seem to think that it's impossible to have a good time without alcohol. I dont drink myself, and usually cant stand being around anyone that's had some. Watching their personality devolve in real-time is... not an activity I particularly relish. Some are worse than others of course.

3. Herd/group mentality. Need I even explain this one? Embarrassing to watch.

4. I cant deal with anyone that is really closed-minded. I doubt I have to explain this one too much to anyone on the spectrum... we all know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that crap. But often people latch on to such frivolous reasons to be jerks. Or they attack someone simply for that person being themselves (as someone with gender issues, I get this alot). My favorite though is the ol' "if you dont have a JOB, you're WORTHLESS!" bit. Ah, how many times I've heard that. Because, you know, I'm only worth something if I'm standing in a Walmart saying "hello" every 5 seconds like a scarecrow with a broken record player shoved up it's butt.

5. Far too many of them are dumber than a sack of hammers.

Just.... ugh. There's times when I feel a bit lonely, but then I remember what people are like. I do have a couple of friends, but each is just as much of a strange social outcast as I am. On a day-to-day basis though, I've got my dogs, and why would I need more than that?

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I wish that I knew what to tell you. If I ever find the answer I will shout it from the highest mountain top for all to hear. I have no words of wisdom to share but perhaps I can offer some food for thought.

Speaking for myself, I am compelled to keep trying until I succeed. That said, the dating scene is probably not the right place for me to find friends, much less a companion. The kind of people that I want to have in my life are not drawn to the typical dating places any more than I am. Instead I have decided to rethink the whole concept of meeting people. In my case I think that its a good idea to try and meet other Aspies. So far I have located a meetup for adult Aspies to gather together and meet other Aspies. With help from google I found outdoor clubs such as gardening and hiking. I also found clubs for people who like to do everything from reading to playing chess to crafts. I had to put my plans on hold because of covid but I am not giving up. Will I meet new friends this way? I think that if I try hard enough I will succeed. Will I meet the lady of my dreams? Maybe, but I won't know unless I give it try.

You say that its rare for you to meet anyone who shares your interests. I see from your post that you like having dogs. I love dogs! My favorite was a Collie & Schnauzer mix called Fuzzy. I nicknamed Fuzzy the The Fuzz after The Fonze on the tv show Happy Days. The Fuzz was that cool lol.

May I ask what your other interests are?

 

[Len Huppe]

I am not equipped with the friend chip so to speak. There are people I know and like and vice versa that's about it. The only kind of "relationship" there is is my same age cousin I was raised with. We are like fraternal twins.

I'm glad to know that you have your cousin to be close to. I have a same age cousin who I was once close with. Hearing you tell your story made me wonder why we ever drifted apart. I will have to reach out to him.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Ezra]

I'm glad to know that you have your cousin to be close to. I have a same age cousin who I was once close with. Hearing you tell your story made me wonder why we ever drifted apart. I will have to reach out to him.

Thanks for the reply

He's 20 now and I'll be 20 soon, so the childhood living under the same roof experience has come to an end. Who knows what the future holds.

One thing you mentioned is that when someone is alone their autism goes away. I believe that is true for many of those with level 1 autism (Asperger's). But for those with level 2 and 3 autism it can be another matter. For me since I have level 2/3 autism and am therefore withdrawn and nonverbal, being around people makes little diffence.

 

[Sarah S]

Lets just say why do you think i had to develop this HOOOOWLING lone wolf that i am today starting VERY young Online (in places i belong like in here for instance) tho it seems as my personality draw people to come to like me and respect me and care for me for which im of course ever so greatful. And the few REEL friends i have Knows ALL about ALL my diagnosis and who and how i am and have accepted me 101 %

 

[Fino]

My biggest obstacle to making friends is that I have no interest in most people. They're boring or annoying. I have one friend I see occasionally and another friend I saw and talked to a lot until now. He'll be going to college in another state. I don't know how it's going to be with basically no one.

 

[SusanLR]

I was never really interested in making friendships either.
First grade there was one kid 3 yrs. older than me that I got along with and we enjoyed playing
simple games of pretend together like cowboys and indians, and jungle explorers.
I also had a cousin very much like myself I liked being with, but, his family moved far away by
the time he was 13, so we fell out of touch.

I've had a few boyfriends that might be called friends with benefits, but, the connections were never
very close and never lasted.

Currently I have no RL friends and not actively looking.
Some want friends but have a hard time making and keeping friendships, others don't have the desire.
It seems built in one way or the other.

 

[Alexej]

Thank you for the video - I appreciate this type of stuff being shared.
I will look at the video, since the topic is of interest to me. I have few friends and this has been my life pattern so anything that helps me understand this facet of my life is helpful

 

[Els]

I don't find it hard to have shallow superficial relationships anymore, I learned how to make a "good impression" by observing what most people wait for. I also had the "chance" to be in a group of friends (of my ex) so that I had plenty of time to understand the codes + practice. It lasted 4 years, I was actually part of the group. When we separated with my ex through, I had very few real friends in the group. Actually, there were all people I knew how to "make a good impression" with and be liked, but only 2 people I was talking with in more depth. When being with my ex, it was okay because I was invited in the group without having to make as much efforts as needed, because HE was invited to meet anyway, therefore I was too. It was a bit bit less efforts to make than if I had been on my own. As soon as we separated, I was the outsider for sure. I tried for some time to remain in the group because there were those 2 people I liked. And then even my relationship with them faded, because I'm simply unable to keep a "proper" frequency of communication. It's wrong to say it's because when I'm alone I'm facing less autistic symptoms and anxiety. It's only part of the reality. The reality is that I'm REALLY unable - simply unable - to keep a relationship alive because it's too much work and efforts for me to make this happen with the recquiered frequency. Why is it too much work? Simply because masking is exhausting, and most relationships consist in 80% masking and superficiality for 20% nice real depth and interesting talks. Remove my 80% masking, there remains only 20% of relationship between me and anyone. It's not enough FOR PEOPLE to call that a friendship, yet it's enough for me. I don't believe the problem is anxiety, I believe the problem is other people's standards - and being unable to meet those standards without masking a lot creates anxiety. Anxiety isn't the main problem for me, it's people's standards and expectations in our relationship. I've been called cold, snob, shy, unconfident, uninterested, however people want to see me. I'm none of that, I just can't meet their recquierements. If I did - and I used to do that quiet a lot - it's at the cost of my own mental health.
Everybody seems to see the lack of friends under the assumption that it's caused or causing unhappiness/anxiety/isolation/depression whatever. It's wrong, or at least not necesserily true and just part of a bigger whole. Too many relationships cause me a greater unhappiness, as well as too little. Yet, my needs of relationships is anyway far lower than most people because I don't enjoy the 80% of masking recquiered in order to be friend with them, and it's very detrimental for me. People used to think - and I believed that - that making friends would make me happy or something. It's wrong. I feel much better now that the masking is unrecquiered all the time in order to maintain friendships. In that sense, yes I managed to have quiet a lot of "friends", but I was much more unhappy than I am now with a lot less of this.
I can still mask and I know how to be liked for some time. I don't see the usefullness of that. It used to be like "okay now I have friends and look more or less normal. Okay, and now what? Oh, I've got to do this like ALL THE TIME continuously in order to maintain friendships???". It's insane and, to my mind, detrimental FOR ME.

That's my experience with friendship. I dislike it althrough I know more or less how to form/create one. The friendships I've got now are exclusively with people with lower standards and who recquiere less attention so that I can focus on things that interest me instead of the 80% of BS friendships recquiere. In that sense, my friendships are friendships which don't need an exhausting involvement and let me plenty of time to be autistic and enjoy my lonely interests. Because I am not less autistic when being alone.
Finding people with lower expectations and greater acceptance is key, much more than having to make all the job.

I don't know if it's clear or confused, I tried to be as clear as possible

 

[Len Huppe]

He's 20 now and I'll be 20 soon, so the childhood living under the same roof experience has come to an end. Who knows what the future holds.

One thing you mentioned is that when someone is alone their autism goes away. I believe that is true for many of those with level 1 autism (Asperger's). But for those with level 2 and 3 autism it can be another matter. For me since I have level 2/3 autism and am therefore withdrawn and nonverbal, being around people makes little diffence.

Hello Ezra,

Thank you for the clarification. I apologize if I misspoke by quoting Tony Attwood. In the future I will be more careful. I will also educate myself on level 2 and 3 autism. So far my studies have been focused more on the effects of Asperger Syndrome and less on living with level 2 and 3 autism. I clearly have a lot of learning to do.

 

[unperson]

What this world calls friendship, ugh. It's just use and be used, if you lack the skills to use others, you'll get used.