Do you have trouble making friends?

[Rasputin]

I had thought that you were either INTJ or INTP and that she sounded definitely ISTJ.

But I don’t buy the system exactly as it is, like I think someone close to P, but an INTJ and someone close to J, but an INTP might be pretty similar. The system makes one percent one way be one category and one percent a different way be a different category. Like a 60% introvert and a 8% introvert might test the same but be far different.

I think my dad is an ISTJ and I’ve had two girlfriends who I think are ISTJ, maybe because I have such a high opinion of my dad, and although nothing holds true with this crazy simple system, there seems to be less comfort for ISTJs to explain themselves

I sense that we are similar in personality also. I am not overly judging, but am very strategic and intuitive. My wife is not intuitive at all but is hyper sensitive of her surroundings. If I spill three grains of salt on the kitchen floor she is immediately aware of it. I could accidentally squirt ketchup on the counter and might not notice it for days or weeks.She is no nonsense, and I like to tease. So our differences are primarily due to personality, and not neurodiversity. I assure you she can become quite angry over the smallest things, which she calls meltdowns. It takes a lot for me to lose control, but it is bad when I do.

 

[Jumpback]

I sense that we are similar in personality also. I am not overly judging, but am very strategic and intuitive. My wife is not intuitive at all but is hyper sensitive of her surroundings. If I spill three grains of salt on the kitchen floor she is immediately aware of it. I could accidentally squirt ketchup on the counter and might not notice it for days or weeks.She is no nonsense, and I like to tease. So our differences are primarily due to personality, and not neurodiversity. I assure you she can become quite angry over the smallest things, which she calls meltdowns. It takes a lot for me to lose control, but it is bad when I do.

My dad, who I am pretty sure is ISTJ, used to have us mow the lawn even when it was so little overgrown that I could only tell where I had mowed and where I hadn’t mowed by the tire tracks. Though when he got this extreme it might have been because he saw the weather forecast was calling for lots of rain or something. But guy notices everything. We’d be traveling two states away and he’d remember that there used to be a different business in this location or something when we’re there last year. I am totally oblivious to such things. I am in my head thinking about things unrelated to the external world much of the time.

Like I think the function part of the MBTI has some merit, like first function for ISTJs is Si, which has to do with immediate surroundings

What Are the Traits of the ISTJ Personality Type?

“Dominant: Introverted Sensing

• Introverted sensors are focused on the present moment, taking in an abundance of information about their surroundings.”

It’s hard to tell what is what. Like in the movie “”Rainman,” guy would have been driven bonkers if his book was moved just a little and so on.

By the way, I am very clearly perceiving, but maybe we related to both being clearly intuitive. I also get the sense that judging versus perceiving questions sound better if you are a professional and you answer judging, so you might even be borderline on the J/P without years of being a professional working on being organized and on time and decisive????

Or, sort of clearly the MBTI doesn’t work quite right and things might be ‘over the head’ of this system, but there are things that it seems to be on the right track with

 

[Rasputin]

My dad, who I am pretty sure is ISTJ, used to have us mow the lawn even when it was so little overgrown that I could only tell where I had mowed and where I hadn’t mowed by the tire tracks. Though when he got this extreme it might have been because he saw the weather forecast was calling for lots of rain or something. But guy notices everything. We’d be traveling two states away and he’d remember that there used to be a different business in this location or something when we’re there last year. I am totally oblivious to such things. I am in my head thinking about things unrelated to the external world much of the time.

Like I think the function part of the MBTI has some merit, like first function for ISTJs is Si, which has to do with immediate surroundings

What Are the Traits of the ISTJ Personality Type?

“Dominant: Introverted Sensing

• Introverted sensors are focused on the present moment, taking in an abundance of information about their surroundings.”

It’s hard to tell what is what. Like in the movie “”Rainman,” guy would have been driven bonkers if his book was moved just a little and so on.

By the way, I am very clearly perceiving, but maybe we related to both being clearly intuitive. I also get the sense that judging versus perceiving questions sound better if you are a professional and you answer judging, so you might even be borderline on the J/P without years of being a professional working on being organized and on time and decisive????

Or, sort of clearly the MBTI doesn’t work quite right and things might be ‘over the head’ of this system, but there are things that it seems to be on the right track with

INTJ vs. INTP: How To Tell Them Apart

@Jumpback, based upon the comparative descriptions discussed in the above article, I am definitely an INTJ. The clearest distinction is my extraverted thinking and my lack of feeling. According to this article INTPs are more expressive of emotions. I sometimes detatch emotionally as a protective mechanism, and feel no emotions. For example, both my mother and father died suddenly and I never experienced any emotion. The suddenness I believe had something to do with my response. When my wife has a crisis or becomes frustrated, my initial response is to try to solve her problem. This causes her to become angry because she wants someone to listen and console her. I truly do not understand her reaction.

Also a few years ago I took the MBTI, and in doing so I received the following graphic depicting my personality. Their graph shows that I am only slightly more judging than perceiving. However, my extreme high thinking position and virtually no feeling, and my extreme introversion, seem abnormal. In my opinion this screams out Aspergers. I doubt that most INTJs would look this way.

How does this compare to your personality?

 

[Len Huppe]

Hi Len just watched the talk, i sit here alone and with tears rolling down as i wished i'd have a Attwood in my life to navigate the world, help me to accept and like who i am and as a Grand-Mother of a lovely 5 year old Aspie hope i can give her the support and understanding i sadly lacked during my life, i have friends but find it hard to understand the reciprocal needs of those people and especially ATM with Corona19 find myself with no job and very much lonely and the familiar feelings of depression and failure beginning to seep into my thinking.

I'm sorry that my post made you cry. I shared that talk because it gives me hope. Hope that one day the dream of being able to break the cycle of pain and isolation will be realized. I'm very happy to know that there are people like you who will take the insights of Dr. Tony and run with them. Knowing that precious children like your granddaughter will have a better life than you or I is cause for celebration.

 

[Jumpback]

INTJ vs. INTP: How To Tell Them Apart

@Jumpback, based upon the comparative descriptions discussed in the above article, I am definitely an INTJ. The clearest distinction is my extraverted thinking and my lack of feeling. According to this article INTPs are more expressive of emotions. I sometimes detatch emotionally as a protective mechanism, and feel no emotions. For example, both my mother and father died suddenly and I never experienced any emotion. The suddenness I believe had something to do with my response. When my wife has a crisis or becomes frustrated, my initial response is to try to solve her problem. This causes her to become angry because she wants someone to listen and console her. I truly do not understand her reaction.

Also a few years ago I took the MBTI, and in doing so I received the following graphic depicting my personality. Their graph shows that I am only slightly more judging than perceiving. However, my extreme high thinking position and virtually no feeling, and my extreme introversion, seem abnormal. In my opinion this screams out Aspergers. I doubt that most INTJs would look this way.

How does this compare to your personality?

I am definitely INTP on the link.

It’s strange in what you are saying in “extreme high thinking position and virtually no feeling, and my extreme introversion, seem abnormal. In my opinion this screams out Aspergers. I doubt that most INTJs would look this way.” was basically what I had written about myself and people around me in a post that decided not to send, though we are clearly not the same personality type

When I take these MBTI tests I test as very clearly I, N and P, but closer to the middle on F/T. But I am not exactly sure that I agree with the whole thinking versus feeling paradigm.

But I do feel a lot of emotion about things, just not usually for awhile after hearing about things. Like whenever I have heard about a death I just feel nothing until later.

My ex-girlfriend would get upset about her horrible job and come home and cry. I first would want to offer solutions, but then I realized she just wanted to be told everything is ok.

—

Maybe I am in enough in the middle to explain both sides and be helpful:

Like maybe emotional reactions are very general reactions, taking in a whole lot of data together in a way which would be difficult to create an algorithm for. Like someone sees a pretty blue car on a car lot and thought is like just “I want this car.” There is logic in the decision, but it’s tiny bits of logic or something all mixed together to make a quicker decision. But if more fact based logic is employed it’s like they are asking too much, there isn’t space for X, etc, etc. But the downside of logic is someone might talk themselves into buying an ugly looking car that chicks don’t dig or something

Or like if someone is upset it might not be like a point by point reason for being upset that makes logical sense, it’s a mental shortcut which artificial intelligence would have a lot of difficulty with. It isn’t all weighed things against each other about why one should feel bad that someone has died, it’s a general shortcut thing mixing in endless things about being appreciative of this relative and scared about ones own mortality and the sadness of the shortness of human life and endless other things just mixed together.

Like, in a way, emotion is logical, because it can be so efficient, but then it isn’t obviously logical, because it’s very difficult for the person explaining emotions to explain

Like my take is that biological life forms haven’t developed processing power fast enough to always be logical and deal with the real world in real time, so they have developed these shortcuts.

And then there is this completely different thing where evolution has caused us to be tribal and being tribal involves being accepted and validated. And I think that being validated it is a big thing.

So consoling emotional people is more about validating and tribal acceptance and less about facts and data and solving problems

Like person feeling emotion is often confused because their head is relying on few data points and they have a biological imperative to be validated and accepted. Or something along these lines

 

[Rasputin]

I am definitely INTP on the link.

It’s strange in what you are saying in “extreme high thinking position and virtually no feeling, and my extreme introversion, seem abnormal. In my opinion this screams out Aspergers. I doubt that most INTJs would look this way.” was basically what I had written about myself and people around me in a post that decided not to send, though we are clearly not the same personality type

When I take these MBTI tests I test as very clearly I, N and P, but closer to the middle on F/T. But I am not exactly sure that I agree with the whole thinking versus feeling paradigm.

But I do feel a lot of emotion about things, just not usually for awhile after hearing about things. Like whenever I have heard about a death I just feel nothing until later.

My ex-girlfriend would get upset about her horrible job and come home and cry. I first would want to offer solutions, but then I realized she just wanted to be told everything is ok.

—

Maybe I am in enough in the middle to explain both sides and be helpful:

Like maybe emotional reactions are very general reactions, taking in a whole lot of data together in a way which would be difficult to create an algorithm for. Like someone sees a pretty blue car on a car lot and thought is like just “I want this car.” There is logic in the decision, but it’s tiny bits of logic or something all mixed together to make a quicker decision. But if more fact based logic is employed it’s like they are asking too much, there isn’t space for X, etc, etc. But the downside of logic is someone might talk themselves into buying an ugly looking car that chicks don’t dig or something

Or like if someone is upset it might not be like a point by point reason for being upset that makes logical sense, it’s a mental shortcut which artificial intelligence would have a lot of difficulty with. It isn’t all weighed things against each other about why one should feel bad that someone has died, it’s a general shortcut thing mixing in endless things about being appreciative of this relative and scared about ones own mortality and the sadness of the shortness of human life and endless other things just mixed together.

Like, in a way, emotion is logical, because it can be so efficient, but then it isn’t obviously logical, because it’s very difficult for the person explaining emotions to explain

Like my take is that biological life forms haven’t developed processing power fast enough to always be logical and deal with the real world in real time, so they have developed these shortcuts.

And then there is this completely different thing where evolution has caused us to be tribal and being tribal involves being accepted and validated. And I think that being validated it is a big thing.

So consoling emotional people is more about validating and tribal acceptance and less about facts and data and solving problems

Like person feeling emotion is often confused because their head is relying on few data points and they have a biological imperative to be validated and accepted. Or something along these lines

I hope others read your post, because you have some interesting ideas. A lot of your ideas seem logical to me, and your ideas could explain some of the differences between Aspies and neurotypicals. My wife has commented that she feels invalidated by me when I solve problems for her. Of course in my employment my "natural"ability to solve problems is a strength. Because of this I now do a job that used to be performed by four people who did not process information as efficiently as I do. To make my relationship with my wife work, I have no choice but to "mask" until she feels validated. And then I end up taking charge of the situation anyway. Not as efficient, but you do what you have to do.

Regarding your initial response to solve the problem and to then console, this shows the importance of being balanced in your capacity to think and feel. This is a healthy thing in my opinion. I think this means you are better able to connect with someone emotionally. I might perform well in a crisis situation, but it is difficult for me to connect emotionally.

 

[Jumpback]

I hope others read your post, because you have some interesting ideas. A lot of your ideas seem logical to me, and your ideas could explain some of the differences between Aspies and neurotypicals. My wife has commented that she feels invalidated by me when I solve problems for her. Of course in my employment my "natural"ability to solve problems is a strength. Because of this I now do a job that used to be performed by four people who did not process information as efficiently as I do. To make my relationship with my wife work, I have no choice but to "mask" until she feels validated. And then I end up taking charge of the situation anyway. Not as efficient, but you do what you have to do.

Regarding your initial response to solve the problem and to then console, this shows the importance of being balanced in your capacity to think and feel. This is a healthy thing in my opinion. I think this means you are better able to connect with someone emotionally. I might perform well in a crisis situation, but it is difficult for me to connect emotionally.

I think that I have this weird ability to intuite things out a little further than most others can. Like an extreme version of introverted thinking an extroverted intuition or something. Like an autistic extreme version of a personality type.

I tried to start YouTube years before YouTube, except I was going to call it yourmove. It was obvious to me that people putting their own videos online was the future, so I got a team together at my college, but no one wanted to work without pay and I am not a programmer. I got as far as putting one of short part of my parents vacation video online and gave up. Maybe if I had known you, you would have followed it through and we’d be rich. Hell, I would have given you most of the company since I am more just an idea guy who can’t follow anything through, but I actually am good at being the idea guy.

 

[Jumpback]

My wife has commented that she feels invalidated by me when I solve problems for her. Of course in my employment my "natural"ability to solve problems is a strength. Because of this I now do a job that used to be performed by four people who did not process information as efficiently as I do. To make my relationship with my wife work, I have no choice but to "mask" until she feels validated. And then I end up taking charge of the situation anyway. Not as efficient, but you do what you have to do.

This is just an extreme guess, but maybe you are a bit overwhelming to her in that you seem like almost close to a self contained robot who is very competent, doesn’t really need help or emotional support and so on to her??? Like by existing and her comparing herself to you she feels imperfect and flawed or something compared to you???

Like if she catches you making a mistake like spilling the sugar or something, she feels relieved that you aren’t perfect and has like “I got him” moment or something.

If it might be something like this, you could find something to be helpless about that she might be good at and ask her for her help just as an experiment and see if this results in her feeling she has a higher position in the relationship instead of always being the one who needs help with things and see if this mellows her out towards you.

Like I am thinking about things like what would you feel like if you were always around someone who was more competent than you are at most things? Like, as an exaggerated way to explain, it’s not really fun to feel stupid or comparatively valueless all the time or something.

Or just kind of like, ‘wow, honey, that thing you did is impressive, I could never have managed to to it that well’ or something, whenever she ends up being better at you at something.

Or maybe if you spill the sugar or something you could steal a line from the Cary Grant “Father Goose” movie and say something like “I am sorry, I just can’t be neat like you can honey, when god made me he made a filthy beast” or something

Just throwing crap out there and seeing if it sticks to the wall or something.

 

[Len Huppe]

Thank you for the video - I appreciate this type of stuff being shared.
I will look at the video, since the topic is of interest to me. I have few friends and this has been my life pattern so anything that helps me understand this facet of my life is helpful

Judging by the response to this thread the video and/or my question is having quite an impact. I hope that you find this thread helpful. The community certainly has a lot to say on the topic of friendships. Thanks for stopping in!

 

[rollerskate]

Forever will struggle with that. Not just because of aspie, but also because of being raised in a cult. I have like ZERO ability to relate to many people in their personal lives. Most of my friendships are formed either through common hobby interests or need. I go through long periods of no contact, which explains why friends fade away. The good ones stick around, but I always feel guilty like I'm using them.... because after so many times ditching and coming back only when I NEED socialization. So of course, that eventually turns into avoiding them, because I don't want to bother them, and I certainly don't want to take advantage of them. Especially right now, because I'm trying to be more careful with myself and that includes avoiding conversation if it is hurting me... even if THEY need that conversation.

NTs seem like these fragile little things that I have to step around and walk around. I'm persistently afraid of breaking them with my rough edges.

 

[Jumpback]

Judging by the response to this thread the video and/or my question is having quite an impact. I hope that you find this thread helpful. The community certainly has a lot to say on the topic of friendships. Thanks for stopping in!

Anything in which things are different seems to exaggerate everything. Like being in a military family, moving all over and so on might be a great boon for extroverts who prefer breadth more than depth in **most** relationships, where these things might have been a fantastic opportunity to meet people from all over and make contacts all over. But for introverts the constant moving making it difficult to develop a close circle of just a couple or few long term close friends might have been overwhelming

Autism spectrum is kind of an extreme state of being, plus one with minority and external judgement implication things to consider....

 

[Len Huppe]

Anything in which things are different seems to exaggerate everything. Like being in a military family, moving all over and so on might be a great boon for extroverts who prefer breadth more than depth in **most** relationships, where these things might have been a fantastic opportunity to meet people from all over and make contacts all over. But for introverts the constant moving making it difficult to develop a close circle of just a couple or few long term close friends might have been overwhelming

Autism spectrum is kind of an extreme state of being, plus one with minority and external judgement implication things to consider....

That sounds like the voice of experience. Are you a military brat? If so what was that like? I'm a vet but I never got to know any military brats during my enlistment. You describe Autism as an extreme state of being. Is that because you experience emotions to the extreme? I certainly do and your words really ring with me. That's a great observation.

 

[Jumpback]

That sounds like the voice of experience. Are you a military brat? If so what was that like? I'm a vet but I never got to know any military brats during my enlistment. You describe Autism as an extreme state of being. Is that because you experience emotions to the extreme? I certainly do and your words really ring with me. That's a great observation.

I am not a military brat, but before I discovered this site I thought maybe the main issue was that I had an extreme personality type.

I don’t think that autism spectrum would necessarily be extreme personality tendencies, and maybe it’s just not in the majority of the cases. But since we are talking about the brain just sort of being wired differently, it has seemed likely that in some cases this would result in extreme tendencies

There does seem to be something about the prefrontal cortex being different in autistics and non-autistics and this might be important since the prefrontal cortex is kind of a bid deal into how humans behave or reason

Brain's prefrontal cortex conducts symphony of social players

Prefrontal Cortex | The Science of Psychotherapy

 

[Rasputin]

One issue that I have not found a solution to is my inability to maintain eye contact during conversations. When you are 6'3", 285 and athletic you tend to scare people when you are unable to look them in the eye and smile.

 

[Dadamen]

Haven't tried to make friends in primary school, but tried in the secondary school. I have established good relationships with many people, but they are more collegues than friends for me. I lack some interests thae they all have, mostly film and music.