Electric cars...

[Mary Terry]

So it's similar to Australia in some ways. Mainland Australia and mainland US are almost exactly the same size in area.

US pop: 330 million
Aust pop: 27 million. (Texas has a bigger population than Australia)
Here's a map showing our population density:

View attachment 131007

I'd love to live on one of those million-acre cattle ranches in the middle of Australia, be virtually totally self-sufficient, and have to deal with humans only once or twice year.

 

[Outdated]

I'd love to live on one of those million-acre cattle ranches in the middle of Australia, be virtually totally self-sufficient, and have to deal with humans only once or twice year.

I did live in a remote area for a while. When I first moved out there most people didn't even have electricity. A small region of about 2000 square kilometres had a population of 250 people, one of the lowest population densities on the planet.

It was great for my mental health but it's a bit rough on the physical health, very few people in these areas live beyond their 60s.

 

[Judge]

I'd love to live on one of those million-acre cattle ranches in the middle of Australia, be virtually totally self-sufficient, and have to deal with humans only once or twice year.

A mind-blowing proposition, considering most places I've lived all my life were fairly but not necessarily densely-populated.

Hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of such desolation. But then I adore desolate places.

 

[Judge]

I did live in a remote area for a while. When I first moved out there most people didn't even have electricity. A small region of about 2000 square kilometres had a population of 250 people, one of the lowest population densities on the planet.

It was great for my mental health but it's a bit rough on the physical health, very few people in these areas live beyond their 60s.

Was that southwest of Darwin? Must have been an interesting lifestyle, for better or worse! Awesome just to look at that area with a map.

Funny, I suddenly thought about whether or not living in Nevada might have some sense of parity with those living in Australia? We live in a very large state with a very small population.

While I live "in town" it doesn't take long to get out into "the middle of nowhere".

 

[Outdated]

Was that southwest of Darwin? Must have been an interesting lifestyle, for better or worse!

Yes, Dundee. In 2015 the government started putting in bitumen roads and building bridges over creeks and that was the end of that. There's still only 250 permanent residents but every weekend that swells to around 15000 people. It's a world famous fishing region - Bynoe Harbour.

With little or no government regulation the ecosystems in the area were all but destroyed in just a couple of years and will likely never recover, for the sake of a few tourist dollars.

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-12.7694697,130.4561005,16810m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&entry=ttu

 

[Judge]

Yes, Dundee. In 2015 the government started putting in bitumen roads and building bridges over creeks and that was the end of that. There's still only 250 permanent residents but every weekend that swells to around 15000 people. It's a world famous fishing region - Bynoe Harbour.

Ironically Nevada has a celebration of counter-culture and freedom we call "Burning Man".

Where a huge number of people from everywhere converge on a virtually unpopulated area well north of Reno, Nevada.

https://burningman.org/

 

[Mary Terry]

A mind-blowing proposition, considering most places I've lived all my life were fairly but not necessarily densely-populated.

Hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of such desolation. But then I adore desolate places.

I've always craved solitude. I grew up on an isolated farm, nearest neighbors were about a mile away. Today, I still live on an isolated tree farm, by choice, and treasure the peace and quiet every day. I've lived in some major cities and pray I never have to do that again.

 

[Outdated]

Bynoe Harbour is no longer great for fishing. It's been fished out and there's very little left. With roads and bridges there also came commercial fishermen so now there's also no mudcrabs, no prawns, no scallops. It's shameful.

 

[vergil96]

I did live in a remote area for a while. When I first moved out there most people didn't even have electricity. A small region of about 2000 square kilometres had a population of 250 people, one of the lowest population densities on the planet.

It was great for my mental health but it's a bit rough on the physical health, very few people in these areas live beyond their 60s.

I wonder what would be needed to live a fairly contemporary life in such a remote area. I figure power generators, satellite phone? Water purification system?

 

[Shevek]

I wonder what would be needed to live a fairly contemporary life in such a remote area. I figure power generators, satellite phone? Water purification system?

Every location is different. Some have so much pure, running water that it can power the house. Usually, solar power or wind power are the best choices, combined with battery storage, but you could also use a windmill directly to pump water uphill, and use a hydro power generator at will. Various degrees of water purification are usually needed, but they don't have to come from a store. Homes can be built that keep their temperature comfortable without fuel most places.

 

[Outdated]

I wonder what would be needed to live a fairly contemporary life in such a remote area. I figure power generators, satellite phone? Water purification system?

Shevek is right in a lot of ways but for the most part where ever conditions are exceptionally suitable for people to live then there are already people living there. Remote areas tend to be in areas of harsh conditions.

A lot of the people in Dundee moved out there with exactly the sorts of ideas you mentioned. No need for water purifiers, the water you bring up from underground in that region is better than anything you'll ever find in bottles.

A lot of people have extensive solar power setups and they're fantastic until they start to age a bit. In temperate climates you can expect solar panels to last up to 20 years but in the tropics they burn out much more quickly and need replacing every 8 years or so. Batteries also die much more quickly and need replacing. There's no such thing as free electricity.

A lot of people when they first move out there find themselves running out of money quite quickly, until they start adjusting their lifestyle. Finding a compromise between modern convenience and affordability. If you have enough wealth behind you before you move out to somewhere like that then you can have the best of both worlds but for most people that's never as possible as they first imagined.

 

[Outdated]

Just a reaction I thought some of you might like.

I was in a take away shop getting a burger and chips for lunch, and there were two business owners in there complaining about the electric cars they've bought for their companies and how impractical they are, and how much money and time it's costing their businesses.

I told them about Toyota trialling ammonia engines in China and straight away everyone all pulled out their phones and started searching the net. Then the two business owners thanked me and shook my hand.

 

[Outdated]

The world reaches a historic tipping point thanks to 'the most rapid change since the Industrial Revolution'

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

The want to flood the world Chinese dumping their electric drive the legacy manufactures under, I can see a real demand for quality engineers again (Boeing), the Chinese are no good at this, sort of like the Japanese just after the war in 1960's and then seventies where they took over the automotive industry. Here we go again. The Chinese need this to save their skin. Expect to see a lot of garbage.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The want to flood the world Chinese dumping their electric drive the legacy manufactures under, I can see a real demand for quality engineers again (Boeing), the Chinese are no good at this, sort of like the Japanese just after the war in 1960's and then seventies where they took over the automotive industry. Here we go again. The Chinese need this to save their skin. Expect to see a lot of garbage.

Agree. There are a fair amount of comparison videos between say, Tesla and BYD, XPing, and others. The Chinese on the surface, make a compelling vehicle, but as you suggest, their cost of production is less due to inferior materials. I can see some of these Chinese vehicles doing well in "initial quality" ratings, but then disintegrate as they roll down the road over the following 4-5 years. The Tesla build quality in their cars has advanced very quickly and rivals the best in the industry in 2024, but even our 2020 and 2021 Tesla vehicles are actually better today than they were when we bought them. I've never experienced that with any other manufacturer. The SpaceX level tech that is incorporated into each new Tesla vehicle, legacy auto literally do not know how to reproduce at this time, even with Tesla's open patents, or lack of patents. It's Tesla that legacy auto is looking to mimic in the future, but it will cost them all dearly. I am not sure if any will survive without government bailouts. Time will tell.

Another consideration, China is suffering from population collapse like no other country in the world, not to mention the young adult population are revolting against the CCP autocracy. Expect a revolution in that country in the near future, which will affect their GDP. On the other hand, they are scrambling to ramp up the production of humanoid robots to keep up their production and GDP. Tesla's Optimus humanoid robot will do the same for the US, so I am thinking if we can keep the Chinese imports out of the US for a few years and allow for the Optimus robot workforce to fill the million+ unfilled jobs (@ $20,000 each) we have in the US, then we can survive this transition. It may, by most analysts predictions, lead to a dramatic drop in prices and usher in an era of abundance. Time will tell.

The next 10 years will see a complete upheaval of all we know, how we do things, price points, investment opportunities, GDP, and so on. I will try to be cautiously optimistic.

 

[RemyZee]

I just bought a 2018 nissan Leaf and after a month I absolutely love it: it is spunky, cost under 8000 dollars, I put an outlet at my house for around 4oo. I don't drive on the freeway much, don't really like it, but I drive to work and back, and on errands, but my auto does fine on the charge for the amount I drive. It's fast, looks good, and I don't have to go to the station for gas or oil changes or justaboutanything. . I like coming home and plugging it up. I got it because I'm also a climate geek but I wasn't expecting to enjoy driving it so much.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I remember cars before the dramatic improvement in quality in the 1980's got hints of this in my position in a appliance factory which closed got next position in assembly plant where I was exposed to statistics, When I left this job got myself trained as a quality engineer. saw the automotive industry change now seeing regression, in places like Boeing, The Chinese are not capable of this level of quality.

 

[Forest Cat]

I saw an interesting news article now, with this headline: "German crisis meeting about the electric car failure". Volkswagen have bet hard on electric cars and now they have a problem. They can't sell them, people aren't buying them. If nothing is done, the company Volkswagen will crash and burn. So the German government is having a crisis meeting. And they are considering using tax money to give incentives to people to get them to buy electric cars. Same thing that happened here a few years ago, the only way to keep the eletric car market alive is to keep it artificially alive with tax money.

Am Montag Krisen-Autogipfel in Berlin: Robert Habeck verspricht jetzt schon Förderung für Elektroautos

 

[Tired]

There is 16 pages here. Can i get a TLDR for why people don't like electric cars?

 

[Tired]

Probably different reasons, for me it has a lot to do with reliability and range. Do I want to drive a Tesla in -25 degrees in the Norwegian winter? No. I want to live, not get stuck somewhere and freeze to death. Last year a highway was shut down because it was jammed full of electric cars that died. People had to walk to safety. And can I drive up a mountain or deep into a forest in an electric car? No, because there isn't a long enough extension cord on this planet for me to charge the battery when it runs out.

And I'm a fan of old American muscle cars. Those are not electric.

So refusing to buy an electrical car comes from wanting to be alive, okay, sounds good to me!