Electric cars...

[Shevek]

The problems come in setting up infrastructure for charging those batteries and the amount of time it takes to charge them. We have been experimenting, including with interchangeable batteries for trucks, but so far nothing is terribly financially viable. For short haul trucking up and down the east coast it's not so bad but once you get west of the Great Dividing Range its a very different world.

If it pays to set up wind and solar to power cities, and it does, it should be easy to set up charging stations in the outback. They'd have enough extra battery trailers to get through a calm, cloudy period. The real problem is the investors only caring about the next quarter, and the general pressure to keep the oil flowing profitably.
However, there is a lot of merit in using hydrocarbons as fuel as long as the pollution is fixed. 2/3 of the fuel for combustion by weight comes from the air, and nothing burns until they are mixed. A battery usually has to contain both reactive substances, and keep them from mixing even in a crash.

 

[Outdated]

If it pays to set up wind and solar to power cities, and it does, it should be easy to set up charging stations in the outback.

We're world leaders in the uptake of solar energy, with a few wind farms as well renewables now account for more than 75% of our electricity generation. Could be more but we need to invest in more infrastructure batteries before we can be completely free from coal and gas. That's happening though, just not quite quickly enough.

Trucks are very expensive equipment and no one can afford to have them sitting idle for hours at a time, so the only way the system could work for electric trucks is with change over batteries at regular intervals across the country, and to provide that sort of service means that we'd need to create towns to operate and maintain that sort of infrastructure.

A remote roadhouse fuel stop is quite easy and cheap to set up and operate, a few underground tanks and pay a family to live there and operate it. That's the way it works at the moment, at a lot of places across the country there is no town, just a fuel stop that is also the operators house. For swapping truck batteries in and out you need heavy equipment and more staff, and to keep those staff there you need some sort of town for them to live in.

 

[Shevek]

We're world leaders in the uptake of solar energy, with a few wind farms as well renewables now account for more than 75% of our electricity generation. Could be more but we need to invest in more infrastructure batteries before we can be completely free from coal and gas. That's happening though, just not quite quickly enough.

Trucks are very expensive equipment and no one can afford to have them sitting idle for hours at a time, so the only way the system could work for electric trucks is with change over batteries at regular intervals across the country, and to provide that sort of service means that we'd need to create towns to operate and maintain that sort of infrastructure.

A remote roadhouse fuel stop is quite easy and cheap to set up and operate, a few underground tanks and pay a family to live there and operate it. That's the way it works at the moment, at a lot of places across the country there is no town, just a fuel stop that is also the operators house. For swapping truck batteries in and out you need heavy equipment and more staff, and to keep those staff there you need some sort of town for them to live in.

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All those solar and wind farms need batteries or a similar alternative. What I'm proposing is that the battery inventory be on wheels. Swapping them can be easier than hooking up a regular trailer if we just try a bit. The battery trailer can have its own motor and steering for use around the yard. The old one would be unhitched and driven to a charging port, and a fresh one driven back and plugged in. Smart machinery can do the connections, and even the driving around the yard with just a bit more investment. The whole installation could be robotic, with an emergency crew at a central airport. However, a restaurant, etc, could probably make a living there, too.

BTW, how are your winds out there? The last two times I crossed Kansas, I could have been going that fast in a land yacht on a broad reach. For freight like ore, an intermittent schedule is not a big problem.

 

[Outdated]

BTW, how are your winds out there? The last two times I crossed Kansas, I could have been going that fast in a land yacht on a broad reach. For freight like ore, an intermittent schedule is not a big problem.

We don't have a great deal of wind in much of the country, the very bottom of Western Australia south of Perth, Gippsland in eastern Victoria, and the west coast of Tasmania are pretty much the only places here with winds reliable enough to generate electricity.

We do however have an abundance of sunshine and solar farms are springing up everywhere, as well as more than 60% of suburban homes having rooftop solar. With Sodium Ion batteries now coming in to commercial production our battery issues should be completely resolved in the next 5 to 10 years, too much fire risk with Lithium.

We've already banned the installation of gas in new homes and older homes have until 2030 to change to all electric before the gas gets cut off. We were planning to completely cut gas and coal exports by 2040 but it turns out that would be disastrous for Japan so we've put that date back to 2050.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

To me electric vehicles will really take of when The right isotope of the right element can be made into a safe atomic battery multiyear battery. thousands of kilometers .No fission no fusion Just steady decay.

 

[Jonn]

Saves me a fair amount in vehicle expenses, fast and cheap to charge,

Fast for a scooter.
I have heard differently for a car.
I need to research more.

Apparently I was mislead about the cost comparison between a "tank" of electricity verses petrol:

It generally costs more to charge at public fast chargers – due to the extra convenience – and this varies depending on the charging network, the type of vehicle being charged, and the power of the fast charger. Generally speaking, the cost to fast charge an EV is still around 20% cheaper than buying petrol.

How much does it cost to charge an EV? - Electric Vehicle Council

 

[Jonn]

This makes me feel angry and helpless.

The life-system is 110% corrupt.
Nothing surprises me any longer.

 

[Jonn]

I agree with you that Hydrogen was just a con job, it costs far more to create usable hydrogen than what you get back out of it. It could never be commercially viable.

Twiggy hasn't completely given up the idea, though.
He has just down-graded his investment.

 

[velociraptor]

Fast for a scooter.

Yes, that's what I own. Did I stutter?

 

[Pats]

About a month ago my son got a tesla. He gave me a ride in it and it was pretty cool. This past weekend he was at the coast when bad weather and flooding occurred. Not to mention at one point he was concerned because he had 20 minute charge left and nearest recharge station was 40 minutes away. But he ran through a puddle and the tesla locked up. Teslas immediately locks it up so no one can do anything to cause it to flame up. But locked up, they couldn't even put it into neutral and , there it was, stuck in middle of the highway. It got towed, and the towtruck just pulls it up on the trailer - wheels not turning. My son, with his gas guzzling pick up went to his rescue. He said the wheels won't budge and he had to find a way to make a sled-like something to go under the tires - which the tow truck failed to do so the tired were already ruined. He brought my son and son in law home and took the tesla to the dealership. My son in law was thinking about getting a tesla, but not any more.

 

[Jonn]

Yes, that's what I own. Did I stutter?

Pardon?

 

[velociraptor]

My son in law was thinking about getting a tesla, but not any more.

They do not seem to be engineered with safety in mind.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Spoke to close friend rural house asked about electric cars he is just a regular guy he laughed do not park it in your garage if a fire starts you can not put it out volunteer fire department house gone too. if your garage is attached
forget getting insurance. no car house nightmare situation in rural areas.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Fast for a scooter.
I have heard differently for a car.
I need to research more.

Apparently I was mislead about the cost comparison between a "tank" of electricity verses petrol:


How much does it cost to charge an EV? - Electric Vehicle Council

For the typical home owner in our area of the US, where you can charge at home, an electric commuter car/grocery getter/people mover around town. The cost of electricity vs. petrol is about 2/3 cheaper if you are pulling from the grid. If you have solar panels and battery to support that, then it is going to be far less expensive than that, perhaps even free.

In my situation, home owner, solar and battery, commuting roughly 9000 miles/year, no special charger, just a 15A garage outlet. When comparing my 2021 Tesla Model 3, dual motor, long range vs. a petrol vehicle averaging 35 miles/gallon, at roughly $3.50/gallon in my area, the savings comes out to about $900/year in fuel vs. $0 in electricity. Then there is the routine maintenance of a petrol vehicle that an EV doesn't have. I spent $15 at a DC fast charger, one time, several months ago.

As others have pointed out, use case is an important consideration. However, do consider, that in the US, the data has shown in several studies, that roughly 99% of all driving is within 25 miles of home, and two, you won't need to install a Level 2 charger if you plug in immediately when you arrive at home. My battery is charged to 80% max and it might (depending upon ambient temps) might get down to 65% and my 15A outlet is more than sufficient. In other words, if you're a home owner, you won't be using charging stations near you. You'll drive past them and never use them.

Myth: "The electrical grid is not ready for EVs." (1) My charger off of my 15A outlet is rated for 12A. The same power consumption as a modern vacuum cleaner. (2) If you are using a Level 2 charger at 30-40A, it is the same as an electric stove or clothes dryer. We have a Level 2 charger with a 30A breaker. We have it for my wife's 2020 Tesla Model Y, but she really doesn't NEED it given her daily mileage. We would be just fine without it. (3) If you have residential solar and battery, you might not be pulling from the grid, at all. (4) Only a tiny percentage of EV drivers are using DC fast charging. They might go several months without ever using one. (5) Some newer EVs are coming out with bidirectional charging, allowing the EV battery to be used for power outages and even to help stabilize the grid when plugged in. Many of the new EV trucks offer this. (6) "Gasoline or petrol starts as oil on average 1 800 m below the ground. Oil is extracted with an oil pump jack. Pump jacks are powered by electricity and their consumption is 9 960 kWh a month (the US only) – just one pump jack. This is enough electricity to power a Tesla car for 56 100 km (enough to drive ~3 years). In the US there are 435 000 oil wells using pump jacks. These consume 4 300 GWh a month. Just get the oil out of the ground. With this electricity (4 300 GWh) it is enough to power 15,164,100 EVs a month. US only oil pump jacks." How much energy is needed to power a combustion car?. People forget or don't know how their petrol gets to their car and how much electricity is utilized for that purpose.

The charging network is there for the relatively few that are doing long road trips and for those that do not have home charging. If you are local, say one who lives in an apartment complex without charging stations, if you are doing these little charges (65-80%) state of charge, then you're looking at less than very short charging times, (plug in, grab some food, 15 minutes at the market, whatever, and its done and ready for you. You might spend $3 a day at a charger, if you are not at one of the many free chargers. A lot of places here in the US will have free Level 2 charging for the first 30 minutes. Many hotels now offer free charging if you stay at the hotel. Plug in at night, ready to go by morning with a full charge, for free. If you're using a DC fast charger out on a road trip, I can charge from say 30% to 90% in roughly 20-30 minutes depending upon the charger (150 vs 250kW/hr), some go up to 350kW/hr now, so even faster in some cases. We have done this several times over the past few years. If I am a Tesla owner going to a Tesla Supercharger, stop to charge twice during the day, at $15-20 per charge, let's say $40/day for a full days driving, as compared to say that $100/day I might spend on my petrol vehicle to do the same trip. Keep in mind, the charging practice is to charge when you have downtime during your trip, rest stops, eating, or sleeping at a hotel. If you are going to "beat the road" on a long cross-country trip, quick petrol fuel stops, grab a sandwich and drink at the petrol station, and hit the road again, driving as far as you can over the course of the day, then stick with your petrol vehicle. An EV wouldn't suit that use case.

 

[velociraptor]

if your garage is attached
forget getting insurance

I work in insurance and this is a false statement.

 

[Rocco]

While I think it is cool to have battery powered cars, I cringe at the mandates and forced production. In my mind it takes incredible amounts of materials, some sourced from occasionally questionable places. The resources needed for producing electric vehicles is massive. Retooling factories to produce EVs is another expense and causes more pollution to replace or redesign equipment in factories.
More production and chemicals only serves to increase industrial pollution. Added to that where are all these used and dead batteries being disposed of?
The environmental cost of producing is huge! Why should he destroy and phase out vehicles that have already been made, only to pollute more and create more EVs?
Overall it is a concept with good intentions to move away from fossil fuels but what will the total cost be to the environment?
I’m my opinion laws should be in place to prevent excessive and unnecessarily oversized combustion vehicles. It is criminal, in my opinion, that a single man that stays on paved roads needs a giant diesel truck to drive to work and back, or the grocery. Smaller Fuel efficient vehicles should be more abundant like in Europe, and required unless the driver needs utility (like a big truck for work).

I am a state certified journeyman electrician, and also state certified/ licensed installer of EV charging stations. The charging cords on EV stations get damaged frequently and need replacement often. Some users abuse the equipment and charging station property.

I feel the biggest problem with combustion engine vehicles is oversized inefficient vehicles being used as a fashion / vanity statement and not practical applications. We do not need a million “street queen” full size pickup trucks on the road occupied by a single white collar passenger.

It’s still really early here and I’m not fully awake, so I might be leaving out pertinent info.

TLDR:
I disagree with forced EV production. I feel laws should be enacted to limit unnecessary vehicle use of inefficient combustion engines and oversized transportation. Only Fuel efficient vehicles should be used for passenger transportation.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I work in insurance and this is a false statement.

Agree.

Global statistics are showing that, as compared to petrol-fueled cars, EV are around 100X LESS likely to catch fire. Significantly safer. Furthermore, in terms of passenger safety in this regard, an EV fire, on the incredibly rare chance that you might experience one, are very slow to develop, allowing significantly more time to escape the vehicle, as compared to a tank full of flammable, volatile fuel.

"...Australia's EV FireSafe, a group funded by the country's department of defense, studied global EV battery fires from 2010 to 2020. The report found that the risk of an electric car battery catching fire was a thousandth of a percent (0.0012%). FireSafe noted that it was difficult to find similar data for internal combustion engine vehicles globally, but based on the reports the group looked at, it estimated fire risk at a tenth of a percent (0.1%)..." Electric Car Fires: What You Should Know | Edmunds. Keep in mind that, these statistics are from EVs with different chemistries than we use today, as well as, thermal management is significantly better today, as is the software controlling the systems today.

Government data show gasoline vehicles are up to 100x more prone to fires than EVs

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

That's not the point I want to get across perception is what decides purchasing my buddy is a typical person in these rural areas good luck selling to them. To be up front they do not even buy house insurance. And the last thing they care about is some body quoting statistics. I hang out with these people many relatives, wife side of family. others friends from grade school, not highly educated.

 

[Judge]

That's not the point I want to get across perception is what decides purchasing my buddy is a typical person in these rural areas good luck selling to them.

Truly rural areas with high protection class numbers (7+) have a multitude of fire hazards to contend with besides just an automobile in an attached garage. Starting with the local topography itself (dense forestation) and a lack of a nearby fire station. Places that are more likely serviced by volunteer fire departments.

 

[Mary Terry]

Truly rural areas with high protection class numbers (7+) have a multitude of fire hazards to contend with besides just an automobile.

Agree. And we have only volunteer fire departments which I'm sure increases insurance premiums much higher than places with professional fire departments.