Electric cars...

[Ronald Zeeman]

Electric cars have more torque than any muscle car, I may buy a used hybrid in the future we do a lot of mid distance driving100 to 200 km a lot in rural areas with no infrastructure other than gasoline stations.

 

[Outdated]

So refusing to buy an electrical car comes from wanting to be alive, okay, sounds good to me!

Here we have similar issues but with heat instead of cold. Also our large cities are few and great distances apart with very little in between, there's plenty of charge points up and down the east coast because that's densely populated but for the rest of the country trying to install that sort of infrastructure simply isn't feasible. Canada also has this issue, more importantly for freight transport than for privately owned cars.

So we've got our fingers crossed that the ammonia fuel technology will take off instead. Toyota are trialing those in some parts of Asia now. So we can still have our internal combustion engines but without fossil fuels.

 

[Jonn]

There is 16 pages here. Can i get a TLDR for why people don't like electric cars?

I haven't read any other posts.

-Too expensive...
-Limited mileage with one "tank"...
-Very few public charging stations...
-Too long to "fill up the tank"...
-Charging is more expensive than using petrol, (so I have been told)...
-Australia is BIG, and EVs are not suitable for country driving...
-Second-hand market price is horrendous...
-A new battery has a limited life and is around 45% the cost of some cars...
-Batteries have a history of exploding. I prefer to die of natural causes...
-In a country that is struggling with electricity cost and electricity production, they want to exacerbate the problem by forcing us into electricity "eat" vehicles..

 

[Tired]

I haven't read any other posts.

-Too expensive...
-Limited mileage with one "tank"...
-Very few public charging stations...
-Too long to "fill up the tank"...
-Charging is more expensive than using petrol, (so I have been told)...
-Australia is BIG, and EVs are not suitable for country driving...
-Second-hand market price is horrendous...
-A new battery has a limited life and is around 45% the cost of some cars...
-Batteries have a history of exploding. I prefer to die of natural causes...
-In a country that is struggling with electricity cost and electricity production, they want to exacerbate the problem by forcing us into electricity "eat" vehicles..

aha okay, i didn't know about many things you named, some of them just don't sound logical

 

[Tired]

Here we have similar issues but with heat instead of cold. Also our large cities are few and great distances apart with very little in between, there's plenty of charge points up and down the east coast because that's densely populated but for the rest of the country trying to install that sort of infrastructure simply isn't feasible. Canada also has this issue, more importantly for freight transport than for privately owned cars.

So we've got our fingers crossed that the ammonia fuel technology will take off instead. Toyota are trialing those in some parts of Asia now. So we can still have our internal combustion engines but without fossil fuels.

ammonia fuel is more eco-friendly?

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Also dumb combustion motors are simple to make made from cheap easy to obtain raw materials.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I can see a future for atomic batteries in the future no charging lasts years.

 

[Outdated]

ammonia fuel is more eco-friendly?

Much more friendly as far as the ozone layer and globally warming gases are concerned. The exhaust is several different forms of Nitrous Oxide which isn't real good for mammals, lizards or birds but won't contribute to global warming.

Now they think they've got a catalytic converter system worked out for the exhaust to take care of NOx but we're letting China test them first because because they have less concern for public welfare than other countries.

One of our leading developers is also working with Deutsche Bahn, they've been trialing trains running on ammonia diesel engines for a couple of years now.

Toyota Takes Aim at EVs With Ammonia Engine

[Edit] Another thing I like about the idea of using ammonia for fuel is that it's easily made by any country, many farmers can make their own ammonia. That cuts the big oil companies out of the loop, less lobbying and interference in governments.

 

[velociraptor]

I don't think electric cars are "there" yet because the battery tech is not there yet for this application. Electric bikes and scooters are the sweet spot for me. I have an eScooter and it is my preferred way to get around town in the summer. Saves me a fair amount in vehicle expenses, fast and cheap to charge, I can get wherever I need to as quickly as I need to. I even have a small trailer for it that lets me pick up groceries without issue. I just wish I didn't have to park it over the winter. It's that useful.

 

[Shevek]

So we've got our fingers crossed that the ammonia fuel technology will take off instead. Toyota are trialing those in some parts of Asia now. So we can still have our internal combustion engines but without fossil fuels.

Carbon Engineering of Squamish BC did a demonstration over a decade ago, making synthetic gasoline just from wind and air, at an affordable price. The process could be tweaked to divert some carbon into stable construction materials, making it a carbon-negative fuel that would instantly turn a monster truck into a big Green machine.
The problem with it is that it would kick hell out of the price of fossil fuel and cost investors billions of dollars. So, they promote worse solutions, like hydrogen or ammonia, and then write off the failures on their taxes.

 

[Tired]

Carbon Engineering of Squamish BC did a demonstration over a decade ago, making synthetic gasoline just from wind and air, at an affordable price. The process could be tweaked to divert some carbon into stable construction materials, making it a carbon-negative fuel that would instantly turn a monster truck into a big Green machine.
The problem with it is that it would kick hell out of the price of fossil fuel and cost investors billions of dollars. So, they promote worse solutions, like hydrogen or ammonia, and then write off the failures on their taxes.

This makes me feel angry and helpless.

 

[Outdated]

The problem with it is that it would kick hell out of the price of fossil fuel and cost investors billions of dollars. So, they promote worse solutions, like hydrogen or ammonia, and then write off the failures on their taxes.

I agree with you that Hydrogen was just a con job, it costs far more to create usable hydrogen than what you get back out of it. It could never be commercially viable.

The Ammonia engines are an entirely different matter and have made it to the stage of a commercially competitive product. In China right now you can walk in to a showroom and buy a brand new Toyota Camry running on ammonia. It uses exactly the same engines that Toyota have been making for generations, the only difference is the fuel injection system and the catalytic converter.

Interestingly, one of the greatest advocates of this technology and one of it's largest investors is one of Australia's wealthiest mining magnates, Andrew Forrest who owns Fortescue Metals. It's the Aussie mining industry that's losing out on the idea of electric vehicles. Electric motors can't pull road trains over long distances.

And as far as the exhaust goes - Nitrous Oxide isn't a very friendly gas to humans, but it's no worse than Carbon Monoxide.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Interesting discussion. I like the ammonia idea existing internal combustion engine this is the weak spot with electric
vehicles not enough raw materials. lots of Iron Which can be made into steel around why recycling steel is now so popular. Would hate to see a shortage of copper stop EV's cold. in a few years .I would put my bets on internal combustion engines for a while yet It comes down to which fuel. Natural gas ammonia propane or even hydrogen which they have now found natural deposits of. Just follow the money One of our bIg steel miles went under a few year ago now they are smelting scrap steel metal the future.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

With age comes wisdom been around know steel industry worked at coil coater know injecting gas is hard watched Ortech develop gaseous fuel injection when I was employed by them.

 

[velociraptor]

Nitrous Oxide isn't a very friendly gas to humans,

That made me laugh.

 

[Outdated]

know injecting gas is hard watched Ortech develop gaseous fuel injection when I was employed by them.

Cars running on liquid natural gas became very popular here back in the 80s. Running on gas instead of petrol means a dramatic loss of power (lower octane) and engines wear out more quickly because unlike petrol gas doesn't lubricate the upper cylinders and heads. But gas used to be less than half the price of petrol.

Once the market took off and lots of people were running on gas the oil companies raised the price of gas to around the same as that of petrol. As soon as they did that then trying to run on gas was poor value and people stopped using it. It's quite rare to see cars running on gas today.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

My employer at the time developed the technology to use the gas needed a super fast valve for the injector I currently see buses and trucks using it the break through happened around 1994. Natural gas is cheap here across the border a waste gas.

 

[Outdated]

That made me laugh.

Nitrous Oxide makes me laugh too.

 

[Shevek]

Nitrous Oxide makes me laugh too.

Some of your opinions make me laugh, too. Methane has an octane rating of 120 Octane rating - Wikipedia and the lack of carbon in the blow-by, etc. approximately doubles the time between overhauls. A very cheap conversion will lose power, but not a proper one. I used to drive one of each in a Taxi fleet. NOX is a major problem as pollution. There is no reason that one trailer in a road train could not be hauling batteries. The big problem with pure hydrogen is handling it in bulk. It works better to hold it together as methane, and then split it off for use. Burning it is silly, but it does a great job running a fuel cell to make electricity efficiently.

 

[Outdated]

There is no reason that one trailer in a road train could not be hauling batteries.

The problems come in setting up infrastructure for charging those batteries and the amount of time it takes to charge them. We have been experimenting, including with interchangeable batteries for trucks, but so far nothing is terribly financially viable. For short haul trucking up and down the east coast it's not so bad but once you get west of the Great Dividing Range its a very different world.