Electric cars...

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The exhaust of an ammonia engine is nitrous oxide, so if they don't sort out the pollution controls well enough we'll all find it very amusing.

 

[MildredHubble]

The exhaust of an ammonia engine is nitrous oxide, so if they don't sort out the pollution controls well enough we'll all find it very amusing.

Oooooo I say bring it on! I could do with a little "pick me up", it really would be great for my mental health to get out doors, rather than a tired old platitude!

 

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Maybe that's why we're testing them in Europe first, too much doom and gloom in that part of the world at the moment. Trains and buses that make people happy.

 

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I just had a vision of a police officer laughing so hard that he's crying, as he defects your car for a broken catalytic converter.

 

[MildredHubble]

I just had a vision of a police officer laughing so hard that he's crying, as he defects your car for a broken catalytic converter.

It would be a Utopia! That's the kind of air pollution I can really get behind!

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Electric cars are a nice idea. Unfortunately the infrastructure isn't there in the UK. Kilo for kilo the energy density of a lithium chemistry battery doesn't compare to gasoline.

True, gasoline has far more energy density than most battery chemistries that are being used in vehicles. However,..."EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels."

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
Yes, the EV infrastructure currently needs improving,...but it is rapidly,...like really fast. Most people today are driving past several charging stations on their daily commutes,...but are totally oblivious because they are focused upon the petrol stations.

So, I looked at the infrastructure in the UK (British Isles) for Tesla Superchargers. You have hundreds of chargers,...just Tesla. This map doesn't even include all the other chargers from other charging networks. Find Us | Tesla

Like I suggested earlier, I think we have to be careful with these discussions because, as human beings, our brains are wired up for "the now" and "the past",...and not the future, which often comes with some unknowns and anxiety. There are those that get excited about the future, understanding how quickly the technologies are improving,...and there are those that still can't wrap their minds around it yet. No worries. I've been living this lifestyle for the past 6 years,...and I will never look back,...we are so much better for it than the people around us,...a higher standard of living for less money.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

The fifth option on the poll is inaccurate. Currently it reads: "I am interested, but until there is more reliable technology for long highway trips"

What it should say is: "I am interested, but not until there is more reliable technology for long highway trips"

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[MyLifeAsAnAspie]

I started driving EVs to join the fight against climate change. After driving them for 9 years, I don't understand why anyone would buy a new gasoline car. The advantages are overwhelming and disadvantages have not been a significant inconvenience. My only concern is that the fast charging station capacity will not keep up with the demand now that EVs are about to take over the new car market.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

The fifth option on the poll is inaccurate. Currently it reads: "I am interested, but until there is more reliable technology for long highway trips"

What it should say is: "I am interested, but not until there is more reliable technology for long highway trips"

​

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We are already there,...at least in the US. I've done plenty of long road trips,...that's literally what the Supercharger network is for,...long road trips. 99-100% of my charging, month-to-month is at my home,...and that is what the vast majority of people do. This is just the Tesla map,...keep in mind there are several other charging stations from other networks, as well. Supercharger | Tesla Furthermore, many hotels and resorts have "destination chargers",...free charging,...plug in and have a full battery when you leave the next day. You can also purchase adapters to fit the electrical outlets at RV parks. In my experience, owning an EV is significantly more convenient than owning a ICE vehicle. It is different,...how you spend your time is different,...charging WHILE eating or shopping, for example,...using your time more efficiently, in some cases.

Reliable? EVs are vastly more reliable,...no question. Less than 200 moving parts (EV) vs. 2000+ moving parts (ICE).

Now, what I would like the next phase of our infrastructure to be is for vast improvements in the daily charging for folks who live in apartment complexes. I do most of my charging overnight,...I have ZERO use for fast charging except for when I am doing a long trip. The vast majority of people "trickle-charge" their vehicles over 8-12 hours,...come home from work, plug it in, go to sleep, wake up, unplug, and go back to work. Like I said,...I've been using a standard 15A wall outlet for over 6 years. You don't need to install expensive "quick chargers" in residential parking garages and along the street,...an inexpensive 15A outlet is all most will ever need and use.

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

We are already there,...at least in the US. I've done plenty of long road trips,...that's literally what the Supercharger network is for,...long road trips. 99-100% of my charging, month-to-month is at my home,...and that is what the vast majority of people do. This is just the Tesla map,...keep in mind there are several other charging stations from other networks, as well. Supercharger | Tesla Furthermore, many hotels and resorts have "destination chargers",...free charging,...plug in and have a full battery when you leave the next day. You can also purchase adapters to fit the electrical outlets at RV parks. In my experience, owning an EV is significantly more convenient than owning a ICE vehicle. It is different,...how you spend your time is different,...charging WHILE eating or shopping, for example,...using your time more efficiently, in some cases.

Reliable? EVs are vastly more reliable,...no question. Less than 200 moving parts (EV) vs. 2000+ moving parts (ICE).

Now, what I would like the next phase of our infrastructure to be is for vast improvements in the daily charging for folks who live in apartment complexes. I do most of my charging overnight,...I have ZERO use for fast charging except for when I am doing a long trip. The vast majority of people "trickle-charge" their vehicles over 8-12 hours,...come home from work, plug it in, go to sleep, wake up, unplug, and go back to work. Like I said,...I've been using a standard 15A wall outlet for over 6 years. You don't need to install expensive "quick chargers" in residential parking garages and along the street,...an inexpensive 15A outlet is all most will ever need and use.

In a traditional internal combustion vehicle, you can drive the thousand miles from Portland Oregon, to San Diego, California, in under 24 hours, if you have 2 drivers in one car. I feel comfortable with a tank at 50% full or more. Therefore, gasoline would be bought: Portland, Grant's Pass, Redding, Buttonwillow, and Santa Ana. Tank full in less time than it takes to buy a few taquitos and a pop in the mini mart.

Although a shorter trip, mileage wise, Portland Oregon to Billings Mt is a much tougher, somewhat longer drive, through the Columbia River Gorge, Over the Blue Mountains, up through the high desert, up the treacherous, nearly vertical Lolo Pass and through the Rockies. Finally you're driving forever, it seems through the Montana Grass Range, where tiny little towns, which are really no more than a circle of houses and a grain elevator, are several hours apart.

Let's not even go into the haul from Los Angeles to Pensacola.

OMG or the trip between Malibu to Big Sur and then up through Monterey and San Francisco, up through The Coast Redwoods, from Ukiah, Garberville, Arcata, Trinidad, and up into Crescent City. Now that's a beautiful, mountainous trek up the California Coast. And then getting back into Oregon, just from Crescent City is its own journey in itself!

If one wants to make a long haul with two drivers, and save on motel fare, I really don't think these are doable trips in an EV.

 

[Forest Cat]

In a traditional internal combustion vehicle, you can drive the thousand miles from Portland Oregon, to San Diego, California, in under 24 hours, if you have 2 drivers in one car. I feel comfortable with a tank at 50% full or more. Therefore, gasoline would be bought: Portland, Grant's Pass, Redding, Buttonwillow, and Santa Ana. Tank full in less time than it takes to buy a few taquitos and a pop in the mini mart.

Although a shorter trip, mileage wise, Portland Oregon to Billings Mt is a much tougher, somewhat longer drive, through the Columbia River Gorge, Over the Blue Mountains, up through the high desert, up the treacherous, nearly vertical Lolo Pass and through the Rockies. Finally you're driving forever, it seems through the Montana Grass Range, where tiny little towns, which are really no more than a circle of houses and a grain elevator, are several hours apart.

Let's not even go into the haul from Los Angeles to Pensacola.

If one wants to make a long haul with two drivers, and save on motel fare, I really don't think these are doable trips in an EV.

If you have something heavy in the car or you are towing a trailer, it gets even more difficult. You'll run out of power much faster.

 

[Forest Cat]

come home from work, plug it in, go to sleep, wake up, unplug, and go back to work.

There is one problem with that, the fire department have told us for years that we shouldn't use dishwashers or charge our phones or leave things on at night when we sleep. It's a fire hazard and dangerous. So I wouldn't be comfortable plugging a car into an outlet in the garage or on the house wall and go to sleep.

 

[maycontainthunder]

^ not sure if this applies but most R/C battery chargers I have encountered have all manner of protection circuits and won't actually charge a lithium type battery if it has something wrong with it. With the cells used in a car there will be extensive protections to stop a problem before it happens.

This doesn't factor in when a fool who thinks they can do auto electrics messes with it. Toasted marshmallows anyone?

 

[Neonatal RRT]

In a traditional internal combustion vehicle, you can drive the thousand miles from Portland Oregon, to San Diego, California, in under 24 hours, if you have 2 drivers in one car. I feel comfortable with a tank at 50% full or more. Therefore, gasoline would be bought: Portland, Grant's Pass, Redding, Buttonwillow, and Santa Ana. Tank full in less time than it takes to buy a few taquitos and a pop in the mini mart.

Although a shorter trip, mileage wise, Portland Oregon to Billings Mt is a much tougher, somewhat longer drive, through the Columbia River Gorge, Over the Blue Mountains, up through the high desert, up the treacherous, nearly vertical Lolo Pass and through the Rockies. Finally you're driving forever, it seems through the Montana Grass Range, where tiny little towns, which are really no more than a circle of houses and a grain elevator, are several hours apart.

Let's not even go into the haul from Los Angeles to Pensacola.

If one wants to make a long haul with two drivers, and save on motel fare, I really don't think these are doable trips in an EV.

Point taken,...but,...very, very, few people "beat the road" like this. Even when I had my other cars, I would make routine stops every 2 hrs or so. If this is "what you do",...I think you're probably less than 1% of 1% of the people on the road,...and the current lot of EVs would not be the correct tool for the job. For everyone else, this would likely never ever happen. Let's keep things in perspective.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

There is one problem with that, the fire department have told us for years that we shouldn't use dishwashers or charge our phones or leave things on at night when we sleep. It's a fire hazard and dangerous. So I wouldn't be comfortable plugging a car into an outlet in the garage or on the house wall and go to sleep.

What? I don't know what the electrical codes are in other countries,...but that is beyond ridiculous in the US. We actually are encouraged,...I repeat,...encouraged to use our appliances and charging during "non-peak" hours,...aka,...at night. So,...no,...it's not a problem.

I did check on this,...and all of these articles on this topic are coming via news outlets in the UK. That's literally not a thing in the US. Perspective.

 

[Forest Cat]

What? I don't know what the electrical codes are in other countries,...but that is beyond ridiculous in the US. We actually are encouraged,...I repeat,...encouraged to use our appliances and charging during "non-peak" hours,...aka,...at night. So,...no,...it's not a problem.

I did check on this,...and all of these articles on this topic are coming via news outlets in the UK. That's literally not a thing in the US. Perspective.

Huh, that's surprising. I did assume it was like that in most places. I remember learning that as a kid and we still teach that to kids. The fire department usually reminds people around Christmas time to turn it off at night because people have Christmas lights and things everywhere. Turn off electrical appliances before you go to bed, no phone charging, turn off TVs and so on. Because if something goes wrong, you're asleep and won't notice it so it's dangerous.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Huh, that's surprising. I did assume it was like that in most places. I remember learning that as a kid and we still teach that to kids. The fire department usually reminds people around Christmas time to turn it off at night because people have Christmas lights and things everywhere. Turn off electrical appliances before you go to bed, no phone charging, turn off TVs and so on. Because if something goes wrong, you're asleep and won't notice it so it's dangerous.

That does make some sense,...and we do turn off most appliances,...if you're not using it,...turn it off. EVs are relatively new,...and are most often charged with brand new wiring circuits and charging equipment. A phone charger is like less than 1 watt,...next to nothing. Dishwashers, clothes washers,...up to you, but many people will run them overnight. Perspective,...in the US,...probably more so than that of any other country,...a house is considered "old" when it's like 30-40 years old,...appliances only last some 5-7 years,...and even "older" homes, for the most part, have been updated, rewired, new furnaces, etc. I am sure, there are a low percentage of outliers, but the point being, most things in the US are relatively "new",...and a significantly lower risk of fires. Sure, houses can catch fire from bad electrical,...it definitely happens,...but statistically speaking,...pretty low risk.

 

[Forest Cat]

We've had a lot of instances here lately with house fires being started by the batteries in electric bikes. Most of these are caused by physical damage to the battery by rough riding or by putting it on the charger and forgetting about it, but people will always be people.

 

[maycontainthunder]

One of the worst things you can do is put water on a lithium battery fire; lithium burns when it comes into contact with water.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Of course,...a damaged battery pack. Battery chemistries are changing year-to-year, especially with EVs. Remember laptop and phone batteries heating up? Doesn't happen anymore,...different chemistries. Thermal "runaway" was, at one time, a risk,...but almost non-existent now-a-days. Now, if the battery pack is damaged,...or contaminated with salt water,...then that's a whole different situation,...still extremely rare. Then, yes,...might as well just let that "b***h" burn. Unless fire crews start carrying around liquid helium extinguishers,...the temperatures will far exceed what water will be able to control.

Roughly 9-13% of fire calls in the US are for vehicle fires,...all but a few are internal combustion vehicles,...very, very few are EVs. Now, having said that,...EVs, per mile driven, are like 50X less likely to catch fire. Having said that, taking in ALL vehicle fires, it comes out to something like 0.04% risk of having any car catching on fire sometime this year. You're far more likely to get into an auto accident in the next year,...and if you're an average driver,...it's still pretty low risk. I can't imagine why we are not FAR more concerned about driving a tank of explosive liquid a few feet behind our backs,...because we know, despite that,...modern vehicles are still relatively safe. We still allow people to drive cars despite the risks. No, Millions of Cars Are Not Catching Fire Every Year

Everything you do has some sort of risk analysis. What are your chances of getting hit by a vehicle while walking across the street today? Whatever.

We can watch videos of cars, scooters, appliances, homes, etc. catching fire all day,...I am sure YouTube has plenty of them,...but by no means does any of it suggest that it is common. It's all amygdala-triggering "click-bait".