Hiding it with alcohol?

[Mr. Stevens]

I don’t know how to be the same ‘Superman’ that my friends, family, boss, son, and WIFE, know, without something to slow down time.

Doesn't this bother you? So many people in my life have expected me to be endlessly calm and supportive, while they got to do, essentially, whatever they wanted. When I had emotions or struggles, they didn't care.

Do you get the support you need from these individuals, or is that contributing to drinking?

 

[AspieChris]

Doesn't this bother you? So many people in my life have expected me to be endlessly calm and supportive, while they got to do, essentially, whatever they wanted. When I had emotions or struggles, they didn't care.

Do you get the support you need from these individuals, or is that contributing to drinking?

I’m in the exact same boat. My wife is the only one who understands, but I still find myself pretending to be calm and supportive when I’m actually on fire inside.

Hence the alcohol…. I guess it’s my fire extinguisher.

 

[AspieChris]

Starting again tonight. 3:00 and my head was spinning. So I guzzled down about 10 shots worth of gin (mixed with ice and soda of course) in less than an hour. I’m cutting myself off. (OK, it was probably closer to 15)

The real problem is that I found a solution that solves nothing. But it created a new pattern where I daily do the exact same thing at 3pm. Then I’m drunk and my patterns disappear. Then I’m just drinking because it feels nice. Then I’m falling asleep on the toilet with my pants around my ankles and my wife has to basically carry me to bed.

If I don’t kill the root, the tree will grow back. I need to get to the root of the reason why I’m doing this or it WILL happen again. I have had these types of problems before and solved them in very unconventional ways. I need to figure out why it happens or I’m completely screwed.

I’m not concerned anymore. I have a plan that keeps failing. But it’s sort of a math problem to me…. there’s an answer somewhere. If I don’t figure out the equation, I’ll fail the test.

Life is hard, but I need a new angle. Change all of the clocks at 2:59? Make them all say 6am? I know it sounds stupid but something crazy like that could possibly be my new equation.

Any ideas?

 

[Rodafina]

What about a new 3pm routine?

 

[MC1Rcat]

Starting again tonight. 3:00 and my head was spinning. So I guzzled down about 10 shots worth of gin (mixed with ice and soda of course) in less than an hour. I’m cutting myself off. (OK, it was probably closer to 15)

The real problem is that I found a solution that solves nothing. But it created a new pattern where I daily do the exact same thing at 3pm. Then I’m drunk and my patterns disappear. Then I’m just drinking because it feels nice. Then I’m falling asleep on the toilet with my pants around my ankles and my wife has to basically carry me to bed.

If I don’t kill the root, the tree will grow back. I need to get to the root of the reason why I’m doing this or it WILL happen again. I have had these types of problems before and solved them in very unconventional ways. I need to figure out why it happens or I’m completely screwed.

I’m not concerned anymore. I have a plan that keeps failing. But it’s sort of a math problem to me…. there’s an answer somewhere. If I don’t figure out the equation, I’ll fail the test.

Life is hard, but I need a new angle. Change all of the clocks at 2:59? Make them all say 6am? I know it sounds stupid but something crazy like that could possibly be my new equation.

Any ideas?

Drinking that much alcohol that quickly can lead to alcohol poisoning. I think you should eat something and have a lot of water......and don't have any more alcohol for a few hours..seriously.

 

[Rodafina]

Ideas for new 3pm habit…

(don’t know what would work for you)

Drive away from home to a peaceful place where you can calm your senses?

3pm candy break ( harm reduction… some addictions are less dangerous than other ones)

Buy something that you really need at 3 PM, every day for one week. Sometimes reallocating the money we spend on alcohol can you show us how wasteful it is to drink our dollars.

Again, using money that usually goes to alcohol, purchase materials for a new hobby that interests you. Indulge yourself in learning about and doing this thing at 3 PM every day. Making agreement with family, wife, children, that this is the only thing that can happen at 3 PM. Sacred time for a special interest.

 

[Rodafina]

Ideas that helped me that are much less fun…

Got rid of all my money. Find someone who can be your money manager for a little while. This one is a real sting to autonomy and pride, but without money, we cannot buy our substance of choice. No credit cards, no cash.

Make preemptive proclamations of sobriety. Telling people that I was sober or trying to get sober activated my pride. I was too ashamed to go back on the proclamations that I had made. If I made it known publicly that I was going for a sobriety, it helped me stay my hand when I really wanted to take some thing or drinks.

I got a tattoo on my arm, someplace that I would normally see it when I was drinking or using other substances. I told people it was my sobriety tattoo, and the few times I broke my word to myself, I saw that tattoo staring at me, and I knew I just don’t want to be a liar.

therapy? I can’t recall if you said you tried this. Therapy sucks sometimes, but it has a purpose. I was lucky enough to find a recovering alcoholic with 30 years on the wagon to be my therapist.

 

[MC1Rcat]

It sounds like you really want to quit drinking...but you are running into the thing that a lot of people do...it is very hard to do on your own. I think if you are having 10 - 15 shots worth of alcohol in a short period of time, on a daily basis, that you may really need professional help to do this. Drinking that much at that rate is considered binge drinking. That is dangerous on its own and can land you in the hospital with alcohol poisoning. The liver cannot detoxify that level of alcohol fast enough. It can lead to coma or death. You should look up the warning signs for alcohol poisoning and share it with your family, so that they know how to tell if you need to go to the ER. I was a bartender for 9 years and have seen plenty of people go home in an ambulance. It happens more often than you might think.
Also, since you mentioned that tapering down is not working, it seems you are trying to quit cold turkey. As I mentioned before, doing this, especially when coming from a binge is very dangerous/ deadly without professional help. I shared what happened to my father earlier in the thread: He had gone a day without drinking before and was okay in the past...but after almost 2 days he needed to go to the hospital. He would have gone into seizure/ coma and then died if I didn't take him to the ER when I did. I don't think you want to end up like that.

I know you mentioned taking Lyrica and that it is sometimes used to help people detox.....but I think the dose used for detox is probably a lot different than what you might be taking for pain relief. You should ask a doctor about this and not assume what you are taking will be enough to keep you from seizure. When people go into the hospital to detox, they are put on very high doses of Ativan to keep them from going into seizure. And they stay on this dose, knocked out, for however long is needed, usually a week at least is standard. When quitting after a binge of drinking, it takes longer. My father was practically unconscious on the amount of Ativan they gave him ... in the ICU for 2 whole weeks. After that he was in the respiratory unit for a week and a half and then went into a nursing home to finish the detox for another 2 weeks. He did not know who I was or where he was for 3 1/2 weeks solid. That's how much medicine they had to give him to keep his nervous system from shutting down due to a lack of alcohol. That is how serious quitting cold turkey from a binge is for someone who has been drinking like that for years.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think you should be more careful with yourself...both for yours and your family's sake. I know you want to quit, but the path you are taking seems self destructive to me, and it may not lead to where you really want to end up. It may end up doing more harm than good. I would suggest talking to your doctor about checking into a hospital or clinic for detox if you can't taper down and are really wanting to quit without doing harm to yourself and your family. If you do it before you end up in the hospital with alcohol poisoning due to binge drinking, it will take a lot less time and it will cause much less pain for yourself and others, than if you don't.

 

[MNAus]

Starting again tonight. 3:00 and my head was spinning. So I guzzled down about 10 shots worth of gin (mixed with ice and soda of course) in less than an hour. I’m cutting myself off. (OK, it was probably closer to 15)

The real problem is that I found a solution that solves nothing. But it created a new pattern where I daily do the exact same thing at 3pm. Then I’m drunk and my patterns disappear. Then I’m just drinking because it feels nice. Then I’m falling asleep on the toilet with my pants around my ankles and my wife has to basically carry me to bed.

If I don’t kill the root, the tree will grow back. I need to get to the root of the reason why I’m doing this or it WILL happen again. I have had these types of problems before and solved them in very unconventional ways. I need to figure out why it happens or I’m completely screwed.

I’m not concerned anymore. I have a plan that keeps failing. But it’s sort of a math problem to me…. there’s an answer somewhere. If I don’t figure out the equation, I’ll fail the test.

Life is hard, but I need a new angle. Change all of the clocks at 2:59? Make them all say 6am? I know it sounds stupid but something crazy like that could possibly be my new equation.

Any ideas?

I'd suggest you sort out the thought patterns that are leading you to view life as a series of equations that you are somehow uniquely able and obliged to solve. I said it before, high performing ASD is a double edged sword. You can bring an incredible amount of intellect to bear on a problem. Do that a few times and you get the feeling you're good at it. Do it a hundred times and it feels like it's a good way to tackle things generally. Do it a thousand times and it becomes your default. Do it ten thousand times and you lose the ability to see the world any other way. You're probably not aware there are other ways of seeing things

Your drinking is not a solution that solves nothing. It's not even a solution. It's a pause button.

IMO, from what you've said, you need to find other ways of responding to things than making it a task or problem that needs solving. What is stressing you is your reaction, not the incidents themselves. That's especially true for things out of your control. You're becoming desperate, frustrated and overloaded because responding to life as a bunch of nails that need hammering no longer works.

It's served you well, but you need more tools now. You need the "I can't make life perfect for everyone" tool. You need the "sometimes people are just going to be sad and while I can sympathise, I need to accept it's not my job to solve that" tool. You need the "I might not like it, I don't condone it, but I accept it" tool.

There's some generalisations out there that hold a bit of water regarding men's need to "fix" things. To make things right. To be honest most of it is pretty unpleasant commentary that it's somehow wrong and men should change that to better meet the needs of women, but it's certainly fair to say it's not an approach that works for every situation. I would suggest that quite a few high performing ASD have found the balance of their abilities steers them further towards this approach to life.

 

[1ofakind]

Just found a Youtube channel of a 50 year old guy with autism talking about his journey to stop drinking. His name is Erik Christian Johnson and his channel is called, "Autism and Addiction". Not sure how to properly link to his video here. I think the main site link via the web is:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3fg-lrQgGHlIJ7b-r_r1Q

And he has one video that is entitled, "Autism and Alcoholism: A Controversial Way to Quit Drinking (2022). I'm not condoning it nor refuting it, just providing the information. Here is the link:

 

[AspieChris]

You’re all 100% correct.

I believe that if I can start a new pattern, the alcohol will become a thing of the past. I just don’t know for sure how to do it. I wake up with no desire for booze.

My grandfather was a horrible drunk. The kind that spent his whole paycheck at the bar and came home just to hit his wife. I’m the exact opposite. I’ll destroy a bottle of gin for about $10 (I buy in bulk of course) and cook an awesome meal for my wife, and wash all of the dishes.

But I’m definitely binge drinking now. I know that quitting cold turkey can be dangerous, but I’ve done it before with absolutely no consequences. I come from a long line of very strong livers. I think that most alcoholics lie about exactly how much they drink and exactly the way they do it. Having even one mimosa with breakfast means there’s alcohol in your blood 24/7. I do sober up every day for a few hours. I think it might be the reason I’m not in the real trouble.

I’m working on a new strategy. I might not be able to stop myself from continuing my current pattern without starting another one first. I’m hoping it can be like starting a new job without quitting the old one just yet. I might just need to make myself too busy to remember that it’s 3:00. I know that if I get stuck at work because of some major problems, I still want to get home but I don’t have any cravings for booze. It’s probably just because I’m too busy to think about it.

 

[AdamG]

Anyone else covering it up with alcohol or ‘other’ mind numbing substances?

I’ve been a person who lives in a NT world for 5 decades. Got a great job, great wife (who understands), awesome child (also an Aspie at 15 years old), and I’m desperately trying to turn off the noise when I get home from work every day. I’ve been doing this off and on for 30years.

This is not a question about addiction, It’s only a question about bad solutions to a problem that has no solution.

It’s not a solution except that it solves a problem that has no solution. Test me for alcohol right now and I’m just a drunk….? Or am I just a desperate man who would rather numb my senses than lose my mind and wind up mumbling to myself until I’m homeless? My family needs me to bring home a paycheck and teach my son to ride a bicycle.

I know that I’m not alone. I’m hoping that there’s someone else that is struggling with a. similar problem.

Whatever your solution might be. I promise you I have tried it and it hasn’t worked. I’m only asking if I’m not alone.

You are not at all alone. I'm 55 and have used alcohol to cover up my overactive thoughts and roiling emotions for decades as well. I've only recently realized that I no longer want it. I've never gone through severe withdrawal or anything, but now after over a week, I'm realizing that it is deeper. My body hurts.

And yes, it is not about addiction. I would be called an "alcoholic" but that is not me. It is an autistic response and now that I realize (just self diagnosed) I can just let go of the pain and have nothing to cover up.

You sound a lot like me, in fact. I am married, but no kids or job. If I did have to work, though, I would for my wife.
Anyway, to me there is no real solution other than not wanting to drink for a while. I may or may not have a beer or five in the future, but not today.

 

[AspieChris]

Just found a Youtube channel of a 50 year old guy with autism talking about his journey to stop drinking. His name is Erik Christian Johnson and his channel is called, "Autism and Addiction". Not sure how to properly link to his video here. I think the main site link via the web is:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3fg-lrQgGHlIJ7b-r_r1Q

And he has one video that is entitled, "Autism and Alcoholism: A Controversial Way to Quit Drinking (2022). I'm not condoning it nor refuting it, just providing the information. Here is the link:

I watched the video. Believe it or not, I have drank so much for so long but never got that bad. Never drank in the morning. Never at work. Never had the shakes or stopped eating. The way I consume alcohol defies everything you have heard. I rarely black out, and it’s always just before bedtime. I’ve never been in trouble with the law or cheated on my wife. No DUI’s or dents in my car. It’s sort of unbelievable to me that anyone could be that insane on alcohol. Ive had extensive bloodwork in the last few years and I’m very healthy.

I know it sounds like I’m lying, but it’s 100% true.

 

[AspieChris]

You are not at all alone. I'm 55 and have used alcohol to cover up my overactive thoughts and roiling emotions for decades as well. I've only recently realized that I no longer want it. I've never gone through severe withdrawal or anything, but now after over a week, I'm realizing that it is deeper. My body hurts.

And yes, it is not about addiction. I would be called an "alcoholic" but that is not me. It is an autistic response and now that I realize (just self diagnosed) I can just let go of the pain and have nothing to cover up.

You sound a lot like me, in fact. I am married, but no kids or job. If I did have to work, though, I would for my wife.
Anyway, to me there is no real solution other than not wanting to drink for a while. I may or may not have a beer or five in the future, but not today.

You sound exactly like me. I’m trying to get to a place where it just doesn’t sound like a solution anymore.

 

[AdamG]

You sound exactly like me. I’m trying to get to a place where it just doesn’t sound like a solution anymore.

For me. The revelation of "oh, I'm just autistic, that explains my whole life!" has been very ... life shattering I suppose. A crisis of identity, almost. I'm settling back into "oh I'm just me, I've always been this way" and the biggest difference is that I can forgive myself. Drop the labels I've internalized all my life. And actually (I didn't think it possible) like myself. I am now accepting of my limitations.
.
My childhood was very traumatic and difficult. My mom would shout at everything and anything, especially me and my Dad and sisters. My sisters are twins, born 19 months after me. So ... yeah.
.
The alcohol thing ... after my self diagnosis and breakdown there, I drank once. It was horrid. My wife left the house for a couple nights. And I realized, I just cannot do it any more. And that turned into that I just don't want to any more. A couple times my wife wanted, and I thought about it, and said "nah, get if you want just give me space if I ask".
.
So that's where I am now. I still do yearn for it a little bit, I just know that I don't really want it and it is just habitual thinking. So it is actually easy at the moment.

 

[1ofakind]

I watched the video. Believe it or not, I have drank so much for so long but never got that bad. Never drank in the morning. Never at work. Never had the shakes or stopped eating. The way I consume alcohol defies everything you have heard. I rarely black out, and it’s always just before bedtime. I’ve never been in trouble with the law or cheated on my wife. No DUI’s or dents in my car. It’s sort of unbelievable to me that anyone could be that insane on alcohol. Ive had extensive bloodwork in the last few years and I’m very healthy.

I know it sounds like I’m lying, but it’s 100% true.

AspieChris, for the record I believe you. I know you have worked hard to break free from the dysfunction from your family upbringing and be a supportive husband and father. You should be commended for your effort. The point is that there are others out there who understand (Autism and alcohol challenges) and have overcome the problem successfully. It is not about who is worse or better functioning. It is about knowing you can do it and be a great role model for your son in the process. I believe you CAN do it when you are truly ready. But, from what you have said in this thread, I also think you need more localized support for both the alcoholism and the autism when you are serious about quitting so that you can find ways to get your needs on the autism spectrum properly supported in addition to learning better ways to cope. In bigger cities in America, there are growing numbers of therapists, resources and clinics specializing in the support of adults on the autism spectrum. Albeit, they can take time to find and you may need one specializing in alcoholism and one in autism. But, as smart and capable as you are, I have no doubt you can do it when you put your mind to it!

 

[MC1Rcat]

Good luck to both Chris and Adam! I hope y'all both are able to achieve your goals and find new ways of dealing with stressors and being overwhelmed. I know a lot of us here are trying to find good ways of dealing with stress and burnout. There is a lot of good advice on this site. We are all helping each other

 

[MNAus]

I watched the video. Believe it or not, I have drank so much for so long but never got that bad. Never drank in the morning. Never at work. Never had the shakes or stopped eating. The way I consume alcohol defies everything you have heard. I rarely black out, and it’s always just before bedtime. I’ve never been in trouble with the law or cheated on my wife. No DUI’s or dents in my car. It’s sort of unbelievable to me that anyone could be that insane on alcohol. Ive had extensive bloodwork in the last few years and I’m very healthy.

I know it sounds like I’m lying, but it’s 100% true.

Fully believe you, but you need to remember that that doesn't mean it's not causing harm. It's likely limiting your options, robbing you of energy, robbing you of memories and exacerbating your stress levels. I'm also sure your wife would prefer not to find you sat on the toilet asleep. But you don't need a lecture, you know that already. Still, don't be tempted to think that perhaps this is anything approaching an acceptable solution for all involved. Your wife and kid need you present, the whole you, and you owe it to yourself not to spend half your life mentally out to lunch.

My guess would be that a solution lies in 1. Finding which learned responses aren't helping you and learn new ways of responding 2. Find which feelings and responses are more "hard-wired" ASD or human and learning methods that distract or steer away from those and 3. as you shift to those better ways, shift away from alcohol. Imagine a future where you feel that calmness that comes after the first couple of drinks the vast majority of the time (because there will always be uncomfortable times). I think that's entirely possible.

My psychologist suggested "mindfulness" and meditation at first and I just scowled. Not because it's wrong per se (though the fact it's so fashionable always raises red flags for me - no-one seems to just get on and do it, it's always worn as a badge) but because it's like asking someone whose car brakes have failed if they'd considered slowing down for red lights. What you actually need to do is recognise that perhaps your response to date has been to rev the engine up and smash on through, but the car is starting to look a bit ropey and perhaps you should consider how you can get those brakes working again. And [over]extending that metaphor, the booze is like deciding every day at 3pm to recline the seat, have a nap, and worry about the screaming and chaos outside in the morning.

It's funny, even your responses here point to the idea of doing MORE as a solution:

I’m hoping it can be like starting a new job without quitting the old one just yet. I might just need to make myself too busy to remember that it’s 3:00. I know that if I get stuck at work because of some major problems, I still want to get home but I don’t have any cravings for booze. It’s probably just because I’m too busy to think about it.

Mixing metaphors, that sounds like shovelling in more coal to the boiler (of your steam powered car???) with the idea that "if I'm going even faster, I'll be too nuts busy trying to avoid a crash to be tempted to have that nap". Which may or may not work in the short, but doesn't really get to the core of doing something about that busy mind.

So IMO the goal might be to do things like live in the present rather than spending the whole time projecting to the future and how you can control that to give everyone happiness. It might be to have acceptance of things out of your control and not ruminate on what would be fair. It might be to have some shades of grey in your responses, including a "I'm not going to respond to that, and if it goes wrong, so be it". I really think it would help to speak with a psychologist THAT UNDERSTANDS ASD BRAINS. Are there any you know of?

 

[MC1Rcat]

I'd suggest you sort out the thought patterns that are leading you to view life as a series of equations that you are somehow uniquely able and obliged to solve. I said it before, high performing ASD is a double edged sword. You can bring an incredible amount of intellect to bear on a problem. Do that a few times and you get the feeling you're good at it. Do it a hundred times and it feels like it's a good way to tackle things generally. Do it a thousand times and it becomes your default. Do it ten thousand times and you lose the ability to see the world any other way. You're probably not aware there are other ways of seeing things

Your drinking is not a solution that solves nothing. It's not even a solution. It's a pause button.

IMO, from what you've said, you need to find other ways of responding to things than making it a task or problem that needs solving. What is stressing you is your reaction, not the incidents themselves. That's especially true for things out of your control. You're becoming desperate, frustrated and overloaded because responding to life as a bunch of nails that need hammering no longer works.

It's served you well, but you need more tools now. You need the "I can't make life perfect for everyone" tool. You need the "sometimes people are just going to be sad and while I can sympathise, I need to accept it's not my job to solve that" tool. You need the "I might not like it, I don't condone it, but I accept it" tool.

There's some generalisations out there that hold a bit of water regarding men's need to "fix" things. To make things right. To be honest most of it is pretty unpleasant commentary that it's somehow wrong and men should change that to better meet the needs of women, but it's certainly fair to say it's not an approach that works for every situation. I would suggest that quite a few high performing ASD have found the balance of their abilities steers them further towards this approach to life.

MNAus, the more I think on it, this advice on responding to things in a way that causes stress is helping me figure out why I may be struggling to get out of burnout mode for awhile now. Thanks for the perspective.

 

[AspieChris]

Fully believe you, but you need to remember that that doesn't mean it's not causing harm. It's likely limiting your options, robbing you of energy, robbing you of memories and exacerbating your stress levels. I'm also sure your wife would prefer not to find you sat on the toilet asleep. But you don't need a lecture, you know that already. Still, don't be tempted to think that perhaps this is anything approaching an acceptable solution for all involved. Your wife and kid need you present, the whole you, and you owe it to yourself not to spend half your life mentally out to lunch.

My guess would be that a solution lies in 1. Finding which learned responses aren't helping you and learn new ways of responding 2. Find which feelings and responses are more "hard-wired" ASD or human and learning methods that distract or steer away from those and 3. as you shift to those better ways, shift away from alcohol. Imagine a future where you feel that calmness that comes after the first couple of drinks the vast majority of the time (because there will always be uncomfortable times). I think that's entirely possible.

My psychologist suggested "mindfulness" and meditation at first and I just scowled. Not because it's wrong per se (though the fact it's so fashionable always raises red flags for me - no-one seems to just get on and do it, it's always worn as a badge) but because it's like asking someone whose car brakes have failed if they'd considered slowing down for red lights. What you actually need to do is recognise that perhaps your response to date has been to rev the engine up and smash on through, but the car is starting to look a bit ropey and perhaps you should consider how you can get those brakes working again. And [over]extending that metaphor, the booze is like deciding every day at 3pm to recline the seat, have a nap, and worry about the screaming and chaos outside in the morning.

It's funny, even your responses here point to the idea of doing MORE as a solution:



Mixing metaphors, that sounds like shovelling in more coal to the boiler (of your steam powered car???) with the idea that "if I'm going even faster, I'll be too nuts busy trying to avoid a crash to be tempted to have that nap". Which may or may not work in the short, but doesn't really get to the core of doing something about that busy mind.

So IMO the goal might be to do things like live in the present rather than spending the whole time projecting to the future and how you can control that to give everyone happiness. It might be to have acceptance of things out of your control and not ruminate on what would be fair. It might be to have some shades of grey in your responses, including a "I'm not going to respond to that, and if it goes wrong, so be it". I really think it would help to speak with a psychologist THAT UNDERSTANDS ASD BRAINS. Are there any you know of?

You’re absolutely correct on every point.

I just can’t imagine learning to ride the bus because the car is broken down. It just sounds easier to run the red lights instead of fixing the brakes.

And I live in the biggest city in the world. But the thought of trying to find a decent therapist AGAIN just makes me want to crawl into a bigger bottle.