How do you handle humiliations?

[Fridgemagnetman]

How do others handle this?

Take the pain, learn where i can.

Forgive myself if i don't

 

[JDartistic]

Thank you everyone. I feel better today. I apologized to everyone involved & basically got more hatred back - to stop communicating w them & that I’m an AH.

But I stepped back from it & realized that I need friends who are more forgiving & quite honestly, who have my back. I think that’s my biggest problem - when I make new friends, I assume they already have my back, usually to learn that they don’t. I suspect it’s bc they don’t know me very well cuz the friendship is new. I’ll add that no one in this group knows I’m autistic. I pass as NT & only tell peeps if I know them really well - & then the don’t believe me anyway!

But re this, I slept on it & tried to make amends. The Meetup group is still intact - most folks didn’t seem to notice anything untoward. That is, I think my 2 friends did over react a bit & caused more drama than necessary. Yes I was wrong but I did apologize in the moment. Everyone else just shrugged it off so I think the meetup group will be okay.

Re losing my 2 friends, I realized they weren’t right for me anyway. I didn’t know them very well but I put myself in their shoes & I personally wouldn’t have responded so harshly to it. I think maybe I need friends who are kinder & warm-hearted. These 2 girls are drama queens, so it seems. Why such a harsh response when I apologized over & over. It’s like they enjoyed seeing me grovel.

Bottom line is that life is hard enough. I had to step back & forgive myself for this one...& Reading all these replies made me feel better. Thank you.

 

[Judge]

Thank you everyone. I feel better today. I apologized to everyone involved & basically got more hatred back - to stop communicating w them & that I’m an AH.

But I stepped back from it & realized that I need friends who are more forgiving & quite honestly, who have my back. I think that’s my biggest problem - when I make new friends, I assume they already have my back, usually to learn that they don’t. I suspect it’s bc they don’t know me very well cuz the friendship is new. I’ll add that no one in this group knows I’m autistic. I pass as NT & only tell peeps if I know them really well - & then the don’t believe me anyway!

But re this, I slept on it & tried to make amends. The Meetup group is still intact - most folks didn’t seem to notice anything untoward. That is, I think my 2 friends did over react a bit & caused more drama than necessary. Yes I was wrong but I did apologize in the moment. Everyone else just shrugged it off so I think the meetup group will be okay.

Re losing my 2 friends, I realized they weren’t right for me anyway. I didn’t know them very well but I put myself in their shoes & I personally wouldn’t have responded so harshly to it. I think maybe I need friends who are kinder & warm-hearted. These 2 girls are drama queens, so it seems. Why such a harsh response when I apologized over & over. It’s like they enjoyed seeing me grovel.

Bottom line is that life is hard enough. I had to step back & forgive myself for this one...& Reading all these replies made me feel better. Thank you.

Look at it this way. Better for this kind of "friendship" to fail very early rather than fester for a very long time.

 

[watersprite]

Learned some things from this thread.
Thanks,
~ k

 

[Ambi]

Hits the nail on the head. Accordingly, I have a more cynical view of the advice given above re. "NTs love niceties" so just try to give out pleasantries, niceties, non-contentious platitudes and you'll come out of social encounters unscathed. Not so. You're lucky if "giving out niceties" leaves you unscathed. More usually, social life cannot be thus formularised/formulated (?) - at least not for Aspergers.

NTs can give out niceties and astonishingly people take it at face-value and lap it up uncritically; they probably describe them as a "charming" or "lovely" person. But because of Aspergers' aura of oddness and low social status, if they give out niceties, it can often be rounded on as something they're doing wrong. Basically NTs can seize upon anything Aspergers are doing in order to exercise their one-upmanship over Aspergers. Aspergers can be doing the exact same things as NTs - usually because they are striving to be inoffensive, inconspicuous, and pass as NT (normal) - and that still does not make them immune to potential social censure.

This is the same reason NTs can be rude and insulting with impunity, but if an Asperger is rude and insulting, the backlash can be vitriolic. I'm inclined to think that the backlash would be less vicious if the Asperger were rude and insulting *on purpose* - with spiteful, malevolent intent behind it. Perhaps NTs sense rather that it is *unconscious* and that is the factor which adds such venomous fury and indignation to their reaction: that the remark was given out innocently, obliviously.

This is why every day feels like navigating shark-infested waters, socially. And that's a heck of a life.

 

[Ambi]

Thank you everyone. I feel better today. I apologized to everyone involved & basically got more hatred back - to stop communicating w them & that I’m an AH.

But I stepped back from it & realized that I need friends who are more forgiving & quite honestly, who have my back. I think that’s my biggest problem - when I make new friends, I assume they already have my back, usually to learn that they don’t. I suspect it’s bc they don’t know me very well cuz the friendship is new. I’ll add that no one in this group knows I’m autistic. I pass as NT & only tell peeps if I know them really well - & then the don’t believe me anyway!

But re this, I slept on it & tried to make amends. The Meetup group is still intact - most folks didn’t seem to notice anything untoward. That is, I think my 2 friends did over react a bit & caused more drama than necessary. Yes I was wrong but I did apologize in the moment. Everyone else just shrugged it off so I think the meetup group will be okay.

Re losing my 2 friends, I realized they weren’t right for me anyway. I didn’t know them very well but I put myself in their shoes & I personally wouldn’t have responded so harshly to it. I think maybe I need friends who are kinder & warm-hearted. These 2 girls are drama queens, so it seems. Why such a harsh response when I apologized over & over. It’s like they enjoyed seeing me grovel.

Bottom line is that life is hard enough. I had to step back & forgive myself for this one...& Reading all these replies made me feel better. Thank you.

I'm so sorry they were so awful to you - yes, people who are that high maintenance are way too stressful for me to have as friends. I have been burned horribly by people like that, so GLAD they are out of my life - the wounds they left are still there. The very few friends I have are very merciful, patient, and forgiving - they are also just not high maintenance, so I don't think they mind me so much - they aren't so vain or sensitive that I am hurting/offending them frequently. Despite whatever goofiness I have, they genuinely seem to get something out of being friends with me. I'm still not sure what! But we've been friends for many years, and I am so grateful for them. They help me navigate life in the NT world, as well.

 

[Gracey]

Mostly silently.
I don't handle it well at all for about a day or so.

Sometimes I'm at a loss as to why they're responding in that way and sometimes I can take what's verbally handed to me away to process whilst I cringe at the memory of whatever it is I may have said and constantly ask myself why I had to say anything at all.

Ask me a question and I'll give you an answer. That's how it works right?

Sometimes I learn from the experience, sometimes I forget.

I try to avoid people I don't understand.
(There are times I think I can get a 'read' on some people - they can be mostly predictable, follow a loose pattern of behaviour)

The ones that aren't are too much like hard work and I don't want to waste my time and not make any progress.

I would like to say I learn from the humiliating experience but it isn't constant so I can't claim that I do.

 

[Gritches]

It's not that I try to learn from such mistakes, the lesson is taught whether I like it or not. The biggest thing for me when I make those kinds of mistakes is to fix them on the rare occasion that I can, and practice self-forgiveness if not.

 

[JDartistic]

Here we go...my fav song!

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Here we go...my fav song!

Sort yourself out.

 

[DuckRabbit]

Often it isn't a nicety that wins favour from NTs but rather a F-Y attitude.

If a nicety can attract opprobrium from NTs, efforts at self-defence and self-assertiveness can often make things ten times worse.

However, paradoxically, it can be a F-Y attitude that gains NT attention and respect - defined as going beyond self-defence and self-assertiveness, since you're at the point where you have nothing left to lose.

This is why every day feels like navigating shark-infested waters, socially. And that's a heck of a life.

Whenever there is unavoidable suffering like this, it can help to look at those who are in a similar position to Aspergers. The tendency is to focus all the attention on NTs, the dominant beings and source of most of AS suffering. As diarist Evelyn Waugh wrote: "I never think of the man behind at all. I spend all my attention on trying to get in front of the man in front."

However it can be more functional to focus on those 'behind' - the beings even less socially powerful and less socially respected than Aspergers are, such as animals and trees. Those who don't contribute to AS suffering but on the contrary may alleviate or distract from it. One has to have a high consciousness IQ (CQ?) to appreciate the non-flashy, non-glamorous contribution of trees. As spiritual writer Thomas Moore writes: "Trees are silent members of a community and attentive but mute partners in many kinds of intimacy".
Yes, trees really do talk, says Dame Judi Dench | Daily Mail Online

If Aspergers are treated so unjustly and uncomprehendingly by NTs, Aspergers should take that suffering and apply it to ensure that they don't do the same to other 'marginalised' groups.

Most animals on this planet who come into contact with humans must be thinking "I have all these abilities, feelings and understandings, yet I'm treated like dirt". What animals are contributing to this planet is incalculable, and unconscious people will only realise it after they've lost the animals e.g., through destroying nature. Similarly, trees are contributing a huge amount to our physical and psychological well-being yet we treat them as expendable - just part of the background unless they get in the way, whereupon we get out the chainsaws without a second thought.

Applying these extrapolations can ensure that Aspergers don't make the same arrogant mistake that many NTs make, of devaluing those who 'aren't like them' and seem to have no obvious worth because their own IQ and consciousness is too limited to see and understand it. As spiritual intuitive Caroline Myss put it: "In many ways the spiritual challenge of 'waiting' and becoming a different quality of person makes more of a contribution to this world than financing a new hospital."

Striving to maintain a healthy mind and body - not contributing to the chaos and disasters, minimising waste and damage, leading a quiet, functional, clean and tidy life - might be the most that Aspergers can contribute to the planet, given that their poor social-political skills are regarded as eclipsing all their other qualities and intelligences. But it is only the unconscious or the ignorant who would devalue such a contribution.

 

[Ambi]

Often it isn't a nicety that wins favour from NTs but rather a F-Y attitude.

If a nicety can attract opprobrium from NTs, efforts at self-defence and self-assertiveness can often make things ten times worse.

However, paradoxically, it can be a F-Y attitude that gains NT attention and respect - defined as going beyond self-defence and self-assertiveness, since you're at the point where you have nothing left to lose.



Whenever there is unavoidable suffering like this, it can help to look at those who are in a similar position to Aspergers. The tendency is to focus all the attention on NTs, the dominant beings and source of most of AS suffering. As diarist Evelyn Waugh wrote: "I never think of the man behind at all. I spend all my attention on trying to get in front of the man in front."

However it can be more functional to focus on those 'behind' - the beings even less socially powerful and less socially respected than Aspergers are, such as animals and trees. Those who don't contribute to AS suffering but on the contrary may alleviate or distract from it. One has to have a high consciousness IQ (CQ?) to appreciate the non-flashy, non-glamorous contribution of trees. As spiritual writer Thomas Moore writes: "Trees are silent members of a community and attentive but mute partners in many kinds of intimacy".

If Aspergers are treated so unjustly and uncomprehendingly by NTs, Aspergers should take that suffering and apply it to ensure that they don't do the same to other 'marginalised' groups.

Most animals on this planet who come into contact with humans must be thinking "I have all these abilities, feelings and understandings, yet I'm treated like dirt". What animals are contributing to this planet is incalculable, and unconscious people will only realise it after they've lost the animals e.g., through destroying nature. Similarly, trees are contributing a huge amount to our physical and psychological well-being yet we treat them as expendable - just part of the background unless they get in the way, whereupon we get out the chainsaws without a second thought.

Applying these extrapolations can ensure that Aspergers don't make the same arrogant mistake that many NTs make, of devaluing those who 'aren't like them' and seem to have no obvious worth because their own IQ and consciousness is too limited to see and understand it. As spiritual intuitive Caroline Myss put it: "In many ways the spiritual challenge of 'waiting' and becoming a different quality of person makes more of a contribution to this world than financing a new hospital."

Striving to maintain a healthy mind and body - not contributing to the chaos and disasters, minimising waste and damage, leading a quiet, functional, clean and tidy life - might be the most that Aspergers can contribute to the planet, given that their poor social-political skills are regarded as eclipsing all their other qualities and intelligences. But it is only the unconscious or the ignorant who would devalue such a contribution.

I love this post! What a positive way to focus our efforts - and I do appreciate nature and animals naturally, and I do want to focus on my own health and living a good, peaceful life. But what I also really loved was the opening idea - that NTs seem to respect the F-Y attitude rather than all that "assertiveness" stuff they are always going on about. The fact is, I think even assertiveness is only fully accepted by those they socially respect - not everyone, there are many decent people who will not be like that. But yes, I do think that finally I have noticed it comes down to an F-Y attitude, at least a bit, to get them to lay off, respect you, respect your boundaries - it's a way to guard your boundaries. So strange. But I'm glad I'm no the only one who has observed/wondered that - I wondered if I was just being jaded, but it seems so true.

When I was a kid, I was so, so lonely.....I used to turn to trees and animals for social comfort - yes, trees. I was very aware of them as living beings and loved leaning up against them for comfort - I still am very aware of them as living creatures and find comfort in them. But all in all, maybe I do need to really start focusing on these things rather than NTs. It's hard when you feel like they are sharks that might randomly bite while you aren't looking...so I guess there's a balance required. i guess that's where that F-Y attitude, when needed, can help keep them at bay for longer periods of time. Part of what I struggle with with NTs is not having that strategic social flexibility they have - when to be nice, when to be firm, when to be indifferent, etc. - I have this one human suit that I wear, whether it is suitable for the occasion or not. I am now at a new job, and I don't want to have this problem again - I can already feel it happening - basically, now I feel like I am driving forward better, but still zig-zagging, but where before I would crash, I now manage to correct myself enough - I think my next correction is to have an F-Y attitude when people try to impose (which they have been).

 

[DuckRabbit]

I love this post! What a positive way to focus our efforts - and I do appreciate nature and animals naturally, and I do want to focus on my own health and living a good, peaceful life. But what I also really loved was the opening idea - that NTs seem to respect the F-Y attitude rather than all that "assertiveness" stuff they are always going on about. The fact is, I think even assertiveness is only fully accepted by those they socially respect - not everyone, there are many decent people who will not be like that. But yes, I do think that finally I have noticed it comes down to an F-Y attitude, at least a bit, to get them to lay off, respect you, respect your boundaries - it's a way to guard your boundaries. So strange. But I'm glad I'm no the only one who has observed/wondered that - I wondered if I was just being jaded, but it seems so true.

When I was a kid, I was so, so lonely.....I used to turn to trees and animals for social comfort - yes, trees. I was very aware of them as living beings and loved leaning up against them for comfort - I still am very aware of them as living creatures and find comfort in them. But all in all, maybe I do need to really start focusing on these things rather than NTs. It's hard when you feel like they are sharks that might randomly bite while you aren't looking...so I guess there's a balance required. i guess that's where that F-Y attitude, when needed, can help keep them at bay for longer periods of time. Part of what I struggle with with NTs is not having that strategic social flexibility they have - when to be nice, when to be firm, when to be indifferent, etc. - I have this one human suit that I wear, whether it is suitable for the occasion or not. I am now at a new job, and I don't want to have this problem again - I can already feel it happening - basically, now I feel like I am driving forward better, but still zig-zagging, but where before I would crash, I now manage to correct myself enough - I think my next correction is to have an F-Y attitude when people try to impose (which they have been).

Thanks. Your post is very balanced. I lean against trees for comfort too. Sadly a F-Y attitude can be more effective with NTs than niceness. 'We can't make them like us but we can make them respect us'. But a F-Y attitude usually goes against the (internalising) Asperger grain - it takes some effort to learn and adopt.

It's a spiritual law that negative energy is always more attention-grabbing than positive energy. The trick is to have the intelligence to resist the hot, uncomfortable clamour of the negative experiences, and to focus more on positive to neutral experiences, which are often quieter - invisible to all but the trained eye.

I think it's great to do many of those things we do naturally - *consciously*. I'm sure it compounds their benefit if we are conscious of the benefit - things like "I'm staying at home tonight... contributing to peaceful, harmonious vibes on the planet" rather than the usual "I'm staying home tonight as I have no one". Or "I'm going to clean the house today to lift my mood and improve at least one small corner of the planet" rather than the usual "Another chore on my to-do list! Another demand from this godforsaken planet". Or "I'm feeling low - let me go and walk in a forest or go outside and lean against a tree" rather than the usual "Life is ****".

There are these mute living beings - animals, trees, plants - who are acutely attentive to everything little current in the community - if only we were conscious enough to recognise them. As Iris Murdoch observed: “People from a planet without flowers would think we must be mad with joy the whole time to have such things about us.” We could turn the usual thoughts around by saying things like "I'm feeling depressed, perhaps there's a tree in the park who's also feeling depressed (due to being mutilated, bombarded with fireworks or street lights, or simply feeling un-appreciated and unloved) who could be uplifted by my walking mutely to visit it and mutely appreciate it". We might be uplifted in turn, since the tree is a positive energy rather than a negative one. Stroking, brushing, talking to or feeding an animal would have the same effect.

that strategic social flexibility they have - when to be nice, when to be firm, when to be indifferent, etc. - I have this one human suit that I wear, whether it is suitable for the occasion or not.

So much advice about how to be ("we teach people how to treat us", "stand up to them", "stand up for yourself", "give it back to them", "be assertive", "appease and apologise", "speak up", "keep quiet") has absolutely zero application to Aspergers. Exactly as you say - those strategies only work because of who's doing them: NTs, who already belong. And then it almost doesn't matter what NTs do - whether they speak up or keep silent, whether they retract or attack --- whatever strategy they pick, it will have a written-in-stone naturalness, an unarguable 'logic' about it that Asperger actions and choices will never have.

Since it's such an uphill battle getting smidgens of fleeting, fickle acceptance from NTs, perhaps Aspergers should actively focus more of their energy on those beings on the planet who aren't against them: animals and trees - treat everything in nature as living - brimming with consciousness and spirit - just as Aspergers would want to be treated by other humans. Aspergers can use all those NT slings and arrows to know what to avoid doing themselves, and to discern what is and is not worth their attention.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

So much advice about how to be ("we teach people how to treat us", "stand up to them", "stand up for yourself

That leapt out at me. We teach people how to treat us.

Something nuanced - no chance. F off maybe.

So we need alternatives to that, as we dont have their manual.

In fact, everyone on here, seems to be in the progress of writing their own manual.

 

[DuckRabbit]

So we need alternatives to that, as we dont have their manual.

Agree. On the whole, Aspergers cannot compete in the boxing ring with NTs - and the more conscious ones don't want to. Aspergers need to actively affirm a different set of values - not just because they cannot cut it in the NT arena but because their values are just as important as NT values, if not more so (manifesting peacefulness, harmony, gentleness, non-aggression, conservation, champions of all other beings who are neglected or devalued on the planet etc).

 

[Streetwise]

That leapt out at me. We teach people how to treat us.

Something nuanced - no chance. F off maybe.

So we need alternatives to that, as we dont have their manual.

In fact, everyone on here, seems to be in the progress of writing their own manual.

I think Cesar Millan seems to communicate very effectively with just energy when you see him communicating with a dog it makes me wonder if we could alter it a little bit

 

[Ambi]

Thanks. Your post is very balanced. I lean against trees for comfort too. Sadly a F-Y attitude can be more effective with NTs than niceness. 'We can't make them like us but we can make them respect us'. But a F-Y attitude usually goes against the (internalising) Asperger grain - it takes some effort to learn and adopt.

It's a spiritual law that negative energy is always more attention-grabbing than positive energy. The trick is to have the intelligence to resist the hot, uncomfortable clamour of the negative experiences, and to focus more on positive to neutral experiences, which are often quieter - invisible to all but the trained eye.

I think it's great to do many of those things we do naturally - *consciously*. I'm sure it compounds their benefit if we are conscious of the benefit - things like "I'm staying at home tonight... contributing to peaceful, harmonious vibes on the planet" rather than the usual "I'm staying home tonight as I have no one". Or "I'm going to clean the house today to lift my mood and improve at least one small corner of the planet" rather than the usual "Another chore on my to-do list! Another demand from this godforsaken planet". Or "I'm feeling low - let me go and walk in a forest or go outside and lean against a tree" rather than the usual "Life is ****".

There are these mute living beings - animals, trees, plants - who are acutely attentive to everything little current in the community - if only we were conscious enough to recognise them. As Iris Murdoch observed: “People from a planet without flowers would think we must be mad with joy the whole time to have such things about us.” We could turn the usual thoughts around by saying things like "I'm feeling depressed, perhaps there's a tree in the park who's also feeling depressed (due to being mutilated, bombarded with fireworks or street lights, or simply feeling un-appreciated and unloved) who could be uplifted by my walking mutely to visit it and mutely appreciate it". We might be uplifted in turn, since the tree is a positive energy rather than a negative one. Stroking, brushing, talking to or feeding an animal would have the same effect.


So much advice about how to be ("we teach people how to treat us", "stand up to them", "stand up for yourself", "give it back to them", "be assertive", "appease and apologise", "speak up", "keep quiet") has absolutely zero application to Aspergers. Exactly as you say - those strategies only work because of who's doing them: NTs, who already belong. And then it almost doesn't matter what NTs do - whether they speak up or keep silent, whether they retract or attack --- whatever strategy they pick, it will have a written-in-stone naturalness, an unarguable 'logic' about it that Asperger actions and choices will never have.

Since it's such an uphill battle getting smidgens of fleeting, fickle acceptance from NTs, perhaps Aspergers should actively focus more of their energy on those beings on the planet who aren't against them: animals and trees - treat everything in nature as living - brimming with consciousness and spirit - just as Aspergers would want to be treated by other humans. Aspergers can use all those NT slings and arrows to know what to avoid doing themselves, and to discern what is and is not worth their attention.

Thank you for posting your thoughts....this is very crucial for me to read.

 

[DuckRabbit]

Thanks for letting me know that you found my thoughts useful.

I am now at a new job, and I don't want to have this problem again - I can already feel it happening - basically, now I feel like I am driving forward better, but still zig-zagging, but where before I would crash, I now manage to correct myself enough - I think my next correction is to have an F-Y attitude when people try to impose (which they have been).

In any new situation or with any new person, there seems to be a small window period when one is accepted but before long, like clockwork, the Asperger cracks begin to show and one attracts like iron filings the old patterns of predictable, aversive NT response.

I personally don't think there is any short-cut to knowing "when to be nice, when to be firm, when to be indifferent, etc." Much of Asperger interactions will always be trial and error; I don't think there's any avoiding that. I just think a F-Y attitude widens the Asperger response repertoire. See my post:
Forgiving Oneself

It's also good to save oneself from the shock and bafflement when niceness and good intentions don't have the desired effect (as argued above, because of the AS aura of oddness and low social status which means Aspergers are natural targets for NT hostility and aggression; Aspergers are readily 'kickable'). Good intentions in Aspergers often count for little for many NTs who may be more concerned with style than substance, or with social status than moral status. Although some may find this view overly cynical, Aspergers need *some* armour, and low expectations of being positively responded to may be more adaptive than expecting niceness to work. As Dennis Wholey put it: “Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you’re a good person is like expecting a bull not to attack you because you’re a vegetarian.”

Accordingly, if being nice/ firm/ indifferent/ assertive/ apologetic etc. on the part of the Asperger 'works', I'm inclined to attribute to this to luck. There is far less causal predictability between Asperger action and intended outcome, than between NT action and intended outcome. NTs can put on acts and they invariably work, but when Aspergers assume some stance or attitude, it may or may not work. It depends on whether people have a fundamentally friendly or hostile attitude towards one. And this can bring out all kinds of self-fulfilling prophecies and mutually reinforcing effects, as this study of racial prejudice explains (bold added by me):

Word, Zanna & Cooper (1974)

Utilizing the concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy, it can be seen how ethnic, gender or other negative stereotypes could be perpetuated through intergroup interactions that provide false confirmation of these beliefs. In a classic study of how such interactions might unfold, Word, Zanna and Cooper (1974) performed two experiments that examined the role of nonverbal behavior in the process. In an initial study they had participants interviewers engage either White or African American confederates who acted as interviewees for the study. It was found that the participants engaged in less immediate nonverbal behavior when interviewing the African American interviewee. These are behaviors that signify less acceptance or liking of the other person, and may include such behaviors as reduced eye contact, sitting further away, facing less directly towards the other, spending less time in interaction, and committing more speech errors.

This first experiment alone does not provide evidence of a self-fulfilling prophecy but a second study further extends support for this explanation. In this study, white confederates acted as interviewers rather than interviewees and white students served as subjects. In one condition, the interviewers acted in a less immediate manner, similar to what was found among those participants of the prior study who had interviewed an African American. In a second condition the nonverbal behavior was more accepting of the participants, and modeled after that displayed previously towards the white interviewees of the first study. Specifically, in the low immediacy group, the interviewer sat further away, spent less time in the interview, and made relatively more speech errors than in the latter group. And what was the effect of this less friendly behavior? First, it was found that the interviewees reciprocated the immediacy level of nonverbal behaviors displayed by the interviewers. But more importantly, those in the low immediacy group were rated as being less qualified for the prospective job by "blind" judges. Thus, racial biases led to less acceptance of African American job candidates and this appeared to undermine their performance in the interview setting.

What remains unclear from these experiments is whether the more negative nonverbal behavior displayed towards African Americans was due to lower expectations regarding their job qualifications, that is, whether it originated in negative racial stereotypes. It is also possible that something else about the interracial interaction caused participants to respond less favorably towards the African American interviewees. Many concepts have been proposed over the years to explain the often strained nature of interracial interactions. Although such interactions could be aversive due to negative stereotypes and expectations, they may also uncomfortable due to internal conflict residing within the perceiver. It has been argued that a conflict exists between negative emotions, and implicit negative stereotypes, on the one hand and a desire to also appear unprejudiced or egalitarian on the other. Such concepts as ambivalence (Katz, Wackenhut & Hass, 1986), aversive racism (Gaertner & Dividio, 1986), modern racism (McConahay, 1986), and intergroup anxiety (Stephan & Stephan, 1985) provide examples and may explain the findings of Word et al. (1974). The discomfort felt in the setting may result in its avoidance as reflected in less immediate nonverbal behavior towards the other person.
Source: Prejudice Matters: Self-Fulfilling Prophecies

All this is starting to remind me of game theory!

 

[JDartistic]

Often it isn't a nicety that wins favour from NTs but rather a F-Y attitude.

If a nicety can attract opprobrium from NTs, efforts at self-defence and self-assertiveness can often make things ten times worse.

However, paradoxically, it can be a F-Y attitude that gains NT attention and respect - defined as going beyond self-defence and self-assertiveness, since you're at the point where you have nothing left to lose.



Whenever there is unavoidable suffering like this, it can help to look at those who are in a similar position to Aspergers. The tendency is to focus all the attention on NTs, the dominant beings and source of most of AS suffering. As diarist Evelyn Waugh wrote: "I never think of the man behind at all. I spend all my attention on trying to get in front of the man in front."

However it can be more functional to focus on those 'behind' - the beings even less socially powerful and less socially respected than Aspergers are, such as animals and trees. Those who don't contribute to AS suffering but on the contrary may alleviate or distract from it. One has to have a high consciousness IQ (CQ?) to appreciate the non-flashy, non-glamorous contribution of trees. As spiritual writer Thomas Moore writes: "Trees are silent members of a community and attentive but mute partners in many kinds of intimacy".

If Aspergers are treated so unjustly and uncomprehendingly by NTs, Aspergers should take that suffering and apply it to ensure that they don't do the same to other 'marginalised' groups.

Most animals on this planet who come into contact with humans must be thinking "I have all these abilities, feelings and understandings, yet I'm treated like dirt". What animals are contributing to this planet is incalculable, and unconscious people will only realise it after they've lost the animals e.g., through destroying nature. Similarly, trees are contributing a huge amount to our physical and psychological well-being yet we treat them as expendable - just part of the background unless they get in the way, whereupon we get out the chainsaws without a second thought.

Applying these extrapolations can ensure that Aspergers don't make the same arrogant mistake that many NTs make, of devaluing those who 'aren't like them' and seem to have no obvious worth because their own IQ and consciousness is too limited to see and understand it. As spiritual intuitive Caroline Myss put it: "In many ways the spiritual challenge of 'waiting' and becoming a different quality of person makes more of a contribution to this world than financing a new hospital."

Striving to maintain a healthy mind and body - not contributing to the chaos and disasters, minimising waste and damage, leading a quiet, functional, clean and tidy life - might be the most that Aspergers can contribute to the planet, given that their poor social-political skills are regarded as eclipsing all their other qualities and intelligences. But it is only the unconscious or the ignorant who would devalue such a contribution.

Thought I'd add that while I was self-bashing over the past few days, the only thing that soothed me was my beautiful dog, Smiley, and many of you already know that I feed/protect the wild animals in my yard - deer, rabbits, foxes, birds, turtles - and when I started to get really depressed and crying, I realized that my only contribution to the world is to nature and wildlife. Good to know that that's what matters most. People suck, but animals are worth loving & caring for...

 

[DuckRabbit]

I realized that my only contribution to the world is to nature and wildlife. Good to know that that's what matters most

I suspect our contribution to nature and wildlife matters more than we could ever imagine. These are realms where many Aspergers seem to have an effortless understanding and a natural aptitude or intuition: Higher empathy for animals?
I remember seeing a 'Nightmare Neighbour' programme about an adult autistic son living with his single mother on benefits. Their neighbours chopped down a bush on their own property that the autistic son liked to look at and draw. He was so distraught about the loss of the bush, I think he took a knife to his neighbours. Naturally, the oblivious, mainstream neighbours focused on his lack of boundaries and lack of understanding of propriety and the law, but all I could see was the kinship he obviously felt towards the bush; their chopping it down was akin to their murdering his friend. His acute sensibility towards the bush - attributing it with infinitely more value than the mainstream does - was not recognised, let alone appreciated. He was just written off - confirmed as disabled, insane and criminal (the three often go together).

Similarly, William Stillman contends in 'The Soul of Autism' (2008) that autistic individuals are ‘harmoniously attuned’. They have a natural capacity for appealing to other beings with a language unique to those harmoniously attuned. He cites an anecdote about a boy called Adam who takes an interest in any plant, tree or bush. Even the ones sprayed with weed killer will flourish after he has taken an interest in them. This autistic ability is neither recognised nor valued by the mainstream, which construes the inability to discern NT intentions and coherent systems of thought as giving rise to a "literal mind". Literal minds are said to be impaired in terms of the ability to understand deception, jokes, lies, metaphors, sarcasm, insincerity, snideness, facetiousness and sabotage. But what about people who have deficits in harmonious attunement? Perhaps education systems should rate people on how they interact with animals, how many they have helped or saved, and how they treat plants and trees. (My own personal litmus test for empathy with dogs would be: do you attach your dog's lead to a collar around the dog's neck, or is the lead attached rather to a harness? I wince every time I see a dog being led by its neck. A harness around the torso I feel is much more ergonomic and humane. Dogs should have collars for identification purposes only; otherwise the collar should not be touched).

I feel we are millennia away from appreciating the non-mainstream intelligences and understandings of many AS individuals. The key is for Aspergers in turn not to neglect or under-appreciate the intelligences and understandings of animals and plants. Don't be swayed by the mainstream who do not have the insight/IQ or CQ to appreciate how valuable animals and nature are. Don't merge 'our' values into 'their' values. Perhaps this is the best way one can 'fight back': by feeding and protecting the wild animals in our yard - deer, rabbits, foxes, birds, turtles - and by consciously recognising this as a vital and priceless contribution to the world - even if no one else is conscious enough to recognise it.