How do you handle humiliations?

[Mary Anne]

This was not my post you are quoting- it was JDartistic who wrote it. We are 2 different people.


You are right!!! Point well taken

Omg, what was I doing? Sorry! I changed it!

 

[Mary Anne]

Hits the nail on the head. Accordingly, I have a more cynical view of the advice given above re. "NTs love niceties" so just try to give out pleasantries, niceties, non-contentious platitudes and you'll come out of social encounters unscathed. Not so. You're lucky if "giving out niceties" leaves you unscathed. More usually, social life cannot be thus formularised/formulated (?) - at least not for Aspergers.

NTs can give out niceties and astonishingly people take it at face-value and lap it up uncritically; they probably describe them as a "charming" or "lovely" person. But because of Aspergers' aura of oddness and low social status, if they give out niceties, it can often be rounded on as something they're doing wrong. Basically NTs can seize upon anything Aspergers are doing in order to exercise their one-upmanship over Aspergers. Aspergers can be doing the exact same things as NTs - usually because they are striving to be inoffensive, inconspicuous, and pass as NT (normal) - and that still does not make them immune to potential social censure.

This is the same reason NTs can be rude and insulting with impunity, but if an Asperger is rude and insulting, the backlash can be vitriolic. I'm inclined to think that the backlash would be less vicious if the Asperger were rude and insulting *on purpose* - with spiteful, malevolent intent behind it. Perhaps NTs sense rather that it is *unconscious* and that is the factor which adds such venomous fury and indignation to their reaction: that the remark was given out innocently, obliviously.

Adult NT people in general do not go through life judging and assessing if one is NT or Aspie.p (or why someone is “different.”) If one is rude, or behaves strangely, there is just that, plain and simple: rude or strange behavior. People in general do NOT have any awareness of autism beyond what the media shows. They are not going to let rude or strange behavior slide, because that’s not acceptable. They are, as adults, are usually too busy, or caught up in life to go around every day thinking why someone does something outside social norms.

In the NT world, no one would know that we are aspies, (or care). They react to the negative behavior, but won’t accept it unless you start labeling and explaining what is aspergers. Plain and simple, this would most likely open up communication, but it still might not bring on acceptance. And, a lot of aspies would not want to disclose.

YOU as aspie go through life in the mindset of “Us” versus “them.” But you cannot expect the general population to understand. Not without massive amounts of education, and integration of both worlds. It’s not helpful to wage war against NTs. We all gotta learn to get along. We all are stuck together on this planet.

 

[Crossbreed]

..., or behaves strangely,...

I think their estimation of "not strange" is narrower than ours. While we would all agree that sociopathy is unacceptable, some things that we could call novel or unconventional would also be considered strange to them.

 

[Mary Anne]

I think their estimation of "not strange" is narrower than ours. While we would all agree that sociopathy is unacceptable, some things that we could call novel or unconventional would also be considered strange to them.

Who is “them???” Different countries, cultures, races, religions, all have varying differences. What exactly is “Them?” NTs are as diverse as there are stars in the sky. There is no one exact NT or type of thinking, social norm, or normalcy. It’s all relative to many variables.

 

[sidd851]

Who is “them???” Different countries, cultures, races, religions, all have varying differences. What exactly is “Them?” NTs are as diverse as there are stars in the sky. There is no one exact NT or type of thinking, social norm, or normalcy. It’s all relative to many variables.

I have always wondered if the difference between my social "cheat sheet";or "mask" a new term to me; and sociopathy, was simply the difference in intention, as far as who is the recipient of the benefits of said calculated interaction...
I am a practicing buddhist.

 

[jovanovic]

people bully me all the time. nobody cares.

 

[Tom]

Depends on what it is. If I can, I embrace it with swagger. That would be something like being called weird/strange. If I can't embrace it I will at least refute it and say something like "No. You're wrong''. Pretty lame maybe but at least a response which I think is better then just letting it go.

 

[Crossbreed]

Depends on what it is...

Which post are you replying to?

 

[Tom]

Which post are you replying to?

The title, original post.

 

[sidd851]

people bully me all the time. nobody cares.

I tend(possibly chauvinistically) to believe that WE are the enlightened bunch.
There ARE people that care about other people.
I care about other people.
I care about YOU.
I care about EVERYBODY.
I care MORE about those that care about others than I do about those that don't.
THIS is the mechanism by which we change the world.
If you need to talk, I am here.

 

[Tom]

I tend(possibly chauvinistically) to believe that WE are the enlightened bunch.
There ARE people that care about other people.
I care about other people.
I care about YOU.
I care about EVERYBODY.
I care MORE about those that care about others than I do about those that don't.
THIS is the mechanism by which we change the world.
If you need to talk, I am here.
Fμ©k a bully.

I agree with all except the enlightened aspect - unless it be said that enlightenment comes not from any mental superiority but by having been on the recieving end of bullying, of discrimination, of degradation.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I agree with all except the enlightened aspect - unless it be said that enlightenment comes not from any mental superiority but by having been on the recieving end of bullying, of discrimination, of degradation.

Agree - one does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. I always feel Aspergers are on a fast-track to making the darkness conscious due to the frequency of the bullying, discrimination and degradation they receive. Unless they have fame, money or some specialised expertise as protective factors, their low social status attracts it. That's why it can be an important survival strategy for Aspergers to turn things around and quietly acknowledge that high social status is generally not conducive to enlightenment.

Power, money and influence change one's neurological hardwiring, making one immune to many facets of life that one should rather be sensitive to. As hard as it can be to labour under low social status on this planet (with the lack of resources that often accompanies it), Aspergers should rather rejoice that they are saved from being oblivious and immune! A spiritual perspective is essential to survive.

 

[DuckRabbit]

How would you handle someone with whom you have a weak social tie but whom you see on a regular basis (i.e., an administrator) suddenly becoming surly, bordering on hostile, towards you? Someone you have to ask to do your photocopying a few times a week. You give the usual "Would you mind?" and "May I have..."; the usual “Thank you” or “Thanks!” Nothing has changed from your side but they have changed. In the fullness of time the politeness and striving evaporates from the administrator's responses. They become sullen, desultory, mute with duress. They no longer give you a "How are you?" They stop using your name when they greet you. No more friendly ice-breaking small-talk. Just a sullen, wordless slapping of the copies down on the counter. Each encounter is now like a mini slap-in-the face, reeking of devaluation. Would they treat the CEO like that?

What would be the correct response to such attitude and behaviour change?

 

[Crossbreed]

What would be the correct response to such attitude and behaviour change?

I would assume that their other duties may have ramped up (or they have some new job dissatisfaction, apart from you) and try to avoid overloading them, if at all possible.

 

[Mia]

What would be the correct response to such attitude and behaviour change?

I would sit them down and listen. Attempt to discover what is upsetting them. Then I would proceed from there.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I would sit them down and listen. Attempt to discover what is upsetting them. Then I would proceed from there.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's helpful for diversifying my own thinking. I'd quail at going in for a 'we need to talk' encounter though, when they're only a weak social tie. I fear they'd hate me even more! Getting all intense and heavy when ideally you'd like to keep it breezy and upbeat.

I just feel I have the wrong social status for this person, as seen in 'the more appreciative and grateful I am, the more this person seems to treat me as persona non grata'. Yet I sense that were I to give this person a dose of their own medicine, acting terse, grim and monosyllabic, they would then feel fully justified in devaluing me - because look how I behave towards them: no please or thank you, no niceties, no pleasantries - I must be a horrible person. I don't trust that Administrator would view my behaviour as a direct response to theirs; they would rather hijack my response to justify their own ugly behaviour. A case of damned if you act nice, damned if you don't...

Cf. the scary Word, Zanna & Cooper (1974) study cited above on self-fulfilling prophecies in how you treat people.

 

[Mia]

Thanks for the suggestion. It's helpful for diversifying my own thinking. I'd quail at going in for a 'we need to talk' encounter though, when they're only a weak social tie. I fear they'd hate me even more! Getting all intense and heavy when ideally you'd like to keep it breezy and upbeat.

It likely doesn't need to have any sort of connotation. More a fact gathering mission, which might aid you somewhat. Something innocuous, like a coffee outside the premise. For a listen to what is troubling the person.

It may have nothing whatsoever to do with you, they may be having a rough time in their personal life. It would be good to know that, as it might aid the other person to talk and help you to resolve things. Then you could interpret what you will of it. It could also backfire as well, as the attempt might alter the status quo. And the individual become over-friendly. It's certainly a conundrum, one that you can only resolve yourself.

 

[DuckRabbit]

It likely doesn't need to have any sort of connotation. More a fact gathering mission, which might aid you somewhat. Something innocuous, like a coffee outside the premise. For a listen to what is troubling the person.

It may have nothing whatsoever to do with you, they may be having a rough time in their personal life. It would be good to know that, as it might aid the other person to talk and help you to resolve things. Then you could interpret what you will of it. It could also backfire as well, as the attempt might alter the status quo. And the individual become over-friendly. It's certainly a conundrum, one that you can only resolve yourself.

Thanks - it's helpful to hear your view to check any biases and mis-attributions against.

I decided today that such moodiness in the workplace is BS. We're all just trying to get our jobs done. That's hard enough without having to walk on eggshells around someone, for no obvious reason. I went in with a bright and breezy attitude to show that I hadn't noticed this person's attitude change, nor was their mood affecting me. Well, their behaviour was more normal. No chit-chat but not stony silence either. Whether this was due to my attitude or something unrelated I'll never know.

 

[DuckRabbit]

I love this post! What a positive way to focus our efforts - and I do appreciate nature and animals naturally, and I do want to focus on my own health and living a good, peaceful life. But what I also really loved was the opening idea - that NTs seem to respect the F-Y attitude rather than all that "assertiveness" stuff they are always going on about. The fact is, I think even assertiveness is only fully accepted by those they socially respect - not everyone, there are many decent people who will not be like that. But yes, I do think that finally I have noticed it comes down to an F-Y attitude, at least a bit, to get them to lay off, respect you, respect your boundaries - it's a way to guard your boundaries. So strange. But I'm glad I'm no the only one who has observed/wondered that - I wondered if I was just being jaded, but it seems so true.

When I was a kid, I was so, so lonely.....I used to turn to trees and animals for social comfort - yes, trees. I was very aware of them as living beings and loved leaning up against them for comfort - I still am very aware of them as living creatures and find comfort in them. But all in all, maybe I do need to really start focusing on these things rather than NTs. It's hard when you feel like they are sharks that might randomly bite while you aren't looking...so I guess there's a balance required. i guess that's where that F-Y attitude, when needed, can help keep them at bay for longer periods of time. Part of what I struggle with with NTs is not having that strategic social flexibility they have - when to be nice, when to be firm, when to be indifferent, etc. - I have this one human suit that I wear, whether it is suitable for the occasion or not. I am now at a new job, and I don't want to have this problem again - I can already feel it happening - basically, now I feel like I am driving forward better, but still zig-zagging, but where before I would crash, I now manage to correct myself enough - I think my next correction is to have an F-Y attitude when people try to impose (which they have been).

An uplifting article about trees and what women are doing to save them:

In the battle to save the world’s forests, women are leading the resistance | Elif Shafak​

From the Akbelen forest in Turkey to northern India to Brazil, rural women are standing up against the corporate chainsaw, says novelist Elif Shafak

www.theguardian.com

"Videos have circulated across Turkish social media. In one of them, a woman says: “I went and hugged my trees, I kissed them. Every time a tree has been cut, I felt like I lost a limb.”"

"The late Nobel laureate Wangari Maathai, who founded the Green Belt Movement, was widely reported as saying, “The tree became a symbol for the democratic struggle in Kenya.” She and her colleagues believed that the fight to protect trees goes hand in hand with the fight against poverty and systemic inequality."

"This Ndoloum Vert initiative not only encourages reforestation but also identifies each tree with a human being, dismantling the illusion that we are outside and above nature. The same thinking was behind a recent protest to save mature trees from a housing development in the UK, when 70 women in Bristol “married” trees in a ceremony designed to raise awareness about their importance to human life and to protect them from the chainsaws. They said they were inspired by the Chipko women."

But it is also heartbreaking to read in this article about the resistance and violence these women are confronting in doing so:

"It is not a coincidence that women are on the frontline of the worldwide resistance against deforestation. Studies show that women and girls are hit harder by the impact of climate destruction, water shortage and food insecurity. Indigenous, rural and fisher women, especially, are in a more vulnerable position, but their voices are rarely heard. Of those who are displaced owing to the climate crisis, 80% are women. During times of conflict and displacement, violence against women tends to rise."

In Mythology, the feminine energy, a Great Mother, produces and nourishes all forms of living things. Trees, plants and flowers bring us closer to the act and deed of creation, helping to rectify any imbalance of masculine energy. Many of us are likely to be lopsided in these two energies, favouring one over the others, but the following blog post explains how we each need to have the masculine and the feminine balanced within ourselves --- and the planet desperately needs these energies better balanced in each of us:

Masculine and feminine energy - feminine vs masculine​

Masculine and feminine energy - In our patriarchal, achievement-oriented society, there is an imbalance of masculine energy – a focus on doing, rather than being.
livingwellcounselling.ca

In fact, this blog post is an excellent checklist for our mental and physical health and well-being! Based on the accounts from nature- and animals-lovers above and elsewhere on this forum, is it possible ASC individuals are on this planet to add a more feminine energy so as to save humanity and the earth? These articles above show just how important and powerful that role is.

 

[paloftoon]

Ouch!
Umm, even if people you are with know that you don't know the extent of what you're saying socially, they might not want to deal with the pain and the energy it would take to be around you. For them to hang around you is more like they are your babysitter and have to put up with you.

Hard lesson to learn.
Try to keep it positive.
It's good to be honest, but not honest in this fashion. Most of us have probably done something similar, and I'm no exception to this.
These kind of answers help when someone is entrenching on your social boundaries or being mean to you, but they are not helpful for building quality friendships.