I messed up again

[Forest Cat]

*I will show you * demonstrates feeling a need to satisfy a standard
set by another person.

I think it's very important for Markness to get past this. You should concentrate on making yourself happy Markness, you shouldn't have to show anyone anything.

 

[Jonn]

No, I don't see that it demonstrates much progress toward self-actualization.

*I messed up* and *I will show you* both focus on the negative.

Well, it depends on the context.
I haven't been looking at this thread until recently.

If "I messed up" is a self-deprecating/self-reprimanding statement, then this is a low point.
Negative internal dialogue was a problem that my psychologist worked on right from the start over 45 years ago.

Moving from this to a more proactive position/mindset is a positive development, IMO.
The "enemy" is not within...It has been externalised.
However, we both agree that neither mental state is ideal.

 

[Jonn]

I think it's very important for Markness to get past this. You should concentrate on making yourself happy Markness, you shouldn't have to show anyone anything.

Absolutely.
It has become an obsession.

I heard on that other website that he was bullied off there because he constantly created threads about this GF issue, and that was years ago.

And, yep, worrying about what others say/think simply gives them the power in your life.

 

[Hypnalis]

IMO it's extremely unlikely Markness will resolve his internal issues via a forum.

He consistently and actively defends his "status quo".
He expresses a desire for results, but resists any suggestion that he work towards those results.
The only rational interpretation is that he's where he wants to be.

He has every right to defend his adult decision not to change of course. But that limits our rights and our options.
If this was reframed just a little, it would look like one of several well-known "hot topics" of our times, and we might find ourselves fighting against any attempts to coerce him into changing.

My point is that, since he sets the rules, and they define (from his perspective) a "no lose" game, we need to set our objectives rationally, and limit our actions appropriately.

 

[Forest Cat]

He expresses a desire for results, but resists any suggestion that he work towards those results.

To be fair, I do think he has tried to work towards results. He has been out and tried to meet people for example. So it's not like he's refusing to try or doesn't put any effort into it.

 

[Jonn]

My point is that, since he sets the rules, and they define (from his perspective) a "no lose" game, we need to set our objectives rationally, and limit our actions appropriately.

I'm just using this discussion as an intellectual exercise.
No one can change a person if that person doesn't want to change. <shrug>

Q: How many psychologists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: One, but the lightbulb has got to want to change.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Forest Cat & @Jonn

I won't reply directly, because at worst we're all "not wrong", and we might well all be right

I think it's an interesting puzzle though: "If there's good indicative evidence the lightbulb doesn't want to be changed, are the psychologists obliged to sit in darkness?".

Even among our own community (though fortunately not strongly visible here) there are sides:
* I'm on the practical side: "accommodate yourself to the "NT world" where it's helpful and practical to do so".
* But there's another side that wants the NT world to accommodate itself to us. Impractical IMO, but that seems to be the default position for many "Zoomers".

I'd call them crazy, but it's actually happening in other domains, so the facts are against me here

 

[Forest Cat]

But there's another side that wants the NT world to accommodate itself to us.

I did learn a long time ago that the world does not bend over for anyone. It doesn't care what I want or like. So adapting is a good strategy. Expecting the world to bend to my wishes won't help me much.

 

[Cryptid]

Detractors are the bane of people's lives; especially the detractors people keep in their own heads.

 

[Markness]

What I see is that they are both being *internalized.*

*I messed up* acknowledges dis-satisfaction with performance.

*I will show you * demonstrates feeling a need to satisfy a standard
set by another person.

==============================================
@Markness

What insights have you gained through this thread?

The topic has been *I messed up again.*

How has this discussion thread benefited you?

Apparently I need to stop “beating myself up”, I shouldn’t worry about my detractors, and saying negative terms regularly isn’t helping me.

 

[Rodafina]

Apparently I need to stop “beating myself up”, I shouldn’t worry about my detractors, and saying negative terms regularly isn’t helping me.

I think trying to focus on these things would be very useful.