I messed up again

[Misty Avich]

Detractors are the bane of our lives. I wish people would leave me alone too and just let live.

 

[honeytoast]

@Tony Ramirez Why do you keep laugh reacting at people trying to be nice? It's rude and uncalled for. I understand being bitter about your circumstances but that doesn't give you the right to be mean to those trying to help. Drop the attitude.

 

[Tony Ramirez]

@Tony Ramirez Why do you keep laugh reacting at people trying to be nice? It's rude and uncalled for. I understand being bitter about your circumstances but that doesn't give you the right to be mean to those trying to help. Drop the attitude.

Sorry I thought it was no big deal. Really. Whenever anyone says it's easy to get a girlfriend I get quite angry because I been trying so hard you know I have and I been meeting nothing but women in relationships everywhere. I thought I finally had a casual platonic friend Madison that turned into a painful textationship so bad that I had to change churches and right away I nearly judged a new women Gretchen there who was nice but I misunderstood. We are fine now. I will remove the laugh .

 

[Hypnalis]

@Tony Ramirez

You need to learn more about communicating with NTs. A lot more.

That doesn't mean gather additional information. You've been given the right advice here to avoid all of the issues you've described this year. (I know it's not all of your issues, but even avoiding a few has to be an improvement)

Repeating (approximately) something I said to Markness earlier (maybe in this thread):

If you need advice (and believe me, both of you do) you cannot be qualified to "pick and choose" - i.e. to select from among multiple sources. Especially web sources,

There is an infinite amount of bad advice available. And only a few "gold nuggets".

But knowing the difference between plausible but useless advice and good advice requires exactly the skill set that makes the advice unnecessary - i.e. the skills you currently lack.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if AF is literally the best place for you to get started with this on the entire web.

Not because it's a perfect source of this knowledge, but because it's quite well protected from actual saboteurs (malicious "agents of chaos" with Dark Triad traits), and there are people here who have relevant knowledge and life experience, and are prepared to listen to dissenting views.

And OFC it's people who understand ASD issues. While most web dating sources curated by women don't even understand NT men, and most curated by men don't understand NT women.

IMO that's a very unsteady base for ND-specific advice.

 

[Markness]

How does this thought help you, in your day to day approach to life?

It keeps me from giving up.

 

[tree]

My detractors think it’s horrible that I want a girlfriend.

This negative thought keeps you from giving up.
Your hope is invested in *proving somebody wrong*?

That may seem like a self affirming goal, but is rather a
limiting attitude.

 

[Jonn]

It keeps me from giving up.

At least you aren't internalising this.

 

[tree]

At least you aren't internalising this.

It looks to me that he does.

The perennial *I messed up* comments.
The *I gotta prove them wrong* concept.
Focusing efforts with the hope of being considered adequate.

To me that looks like self doubt.

 

[Masked Man]

It looks to me that he does.

The perennial *I messed up* comments.
The *I gotta prove them wrong* concept.
Focusing efforts with the hope of being considered adequate.

To me that looks like self doubt.

Correct

Self-confident people do not feel any need to "prove them all wrong."

 

[Jonn]

It looks to me that he does.

The perennial *I messed up* comments.
The *I gotta prove them wrong* concept.
Focusing efforts with the hope of being considered adequate.

To me that looks like self doubt.

I was referring to him rejecting the concept.

I.E. "Up yours. I will show you that it isn't the case."
I.E. The concept is rejected. It isn't internalised.

I am not saying Markness isn't influenced by the thought, but from memory, as he said, it gives him motivation to keep on going.

I have a different POV.
I would just laugh in their faces (on the inside) and ignore the nonsense.
After all, that is simply their level of enlightenment.

Reacting to trollish behaviour simply gives them power over the direction you take, but we have to walk before we can run, right?

Psychological studies have indicated that there are times when growth is relatively linear where there is a series of events that need to be satisfied/experienced before the next level of development can be attained.
Personal experience has seen this in action.

E.G. For some/many men, their sexual/social development may be dependent on no longer being a virgin.
(Not suggesting this is the case here.)
If not, they may become "stuck"/obsessed until this situation has been resolved.

 

[Jonn]

Let me point out, that Markness seems to be displaying contradictory attitudes.

"I messed up" and "I will show you".

 

[Jonn]

Correct

Self-confident people do not feel any need to "prove them all wrong."

Would you not see an attitude from "I messed up" to "I will show you" a positive advancement?
Would this not be on the road towards self-actualisation?

 

[thejuice]

Would you not see an attitude from "I messed up" to "I will show you" a positive advancement?
Would this not be on the road towards self-actualisation?

I would say that is true, especially in sports. If you say something silly in a press conference that shows underestimation of opponents or hubris, that "I will show you" factor can be a huge focus point. Thats why theyre all so media trained and dull.

 

[Masked Man]

Would you not see an attitude from "I messed up" to "I will show you" a positive advancement?
Would this not be on the road towards self-actualisation?

I mean maybe but Mark has been doing this same thing since about 2016 or so. It's not necessarily the attitude that needs adjustment, it's his delivery and his methods and his complete unwillingness to consider that maybe, just maybe, what he's doing is ineffective.

 

[tree]

Would you not see an attitude from "I messed up" to "I will show you" a positive advancement?
Would this not be on the road towards self-actualisation?

No, I don't see that it demonstrates much progress toward self-actualization.

*I messed up* and *I will show you* both focus on the negative.

 

[Jonn]

I mean maybe but Mark has been doing this same thing since about 2016 or so. It's not necessarily the attitude that needs adjustment, it's his delivery and his methods and his complete unwillingness to consider that maybe, just maybe, what he's doing is ineffective.

I haven't been following Markness's posts in-depth, but I think your assessment is spot on.

 

[Jonn]

No, I don't see that it demonstrates much progress toward self-actualization.

*I messed up* and *I will show you* both focus on the negative.

I guess: "We will have to agree to disagree." ™

Yes, I think both are negative statements...
However,
One is internal and negative (depending on the context)...
And the other is negative in an external sense, in that other people have negative traits.
One takes ownership, while the other does not.


BTW, I think it safe to say Markness is "stuck" in an endless loop, atm.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Jonn

Technically you're correct, but in an irrelevant way

What matters is the looping. I don't think it's possible for anything that can be done here to change that.
It still feels right to try every now and then, but it's not wise to expect results.

OTOH, he might randomly make contact with someone he gets on with. There are enough ASDs in the world for such chance meetings, but collectively we're not very sociable, so we have trouble finding each other /sigh.

Anyway if that should happen to Markness, he knows he's welcome to ask in AF for "tactical" advice.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Tony Ramirez

You've taken "two steps forward, and one step back", but that's still a net gain.

I think you should start a thread soliciting advice on relevant basic social skills. ASAP. The timing seems good.

It's a big topic, and everyone's path is a little different, so you can't wait for someone to do it for you.
You'll need to be engaged.

It's not easy to be an adult student of things like this. People who make money teaching adults have to use quite strange techniques to make it "feel" right (which is why there's often a "cultish" feel to quite simple topics like weight loss and simple exercises).

Nearly everyone here is ASD of course, so you can't expect "ego protecting techniques" either, but on the bright side, you only have to decide once that you'll accept the "humble student" role. You get used to it fast.

And you can always just disengage if it becomes annoying

BTW: the point of my raising the "Teacher/Student" aspect of that is:
When it comes to difficult topics, nobody worth listening to will waste time on a reluctant student.
The best people give up first, and they don't say anything when they do. So trying to hold out for a given level of ego-stroking almost guarantees that there's a quality problem with the remaining advisors.

So if you want this, go "all in" from the start.

 

[tree]

I guess: "We will have to agree to disagree." ™

Yes, I think both are negative statements...
However,
One is internal and negative (depending on the context)...
And the other is negative in an external sense, in that other people have negative traits.
One takes ownership, while the other does not.


BTW, I think it safe to say Markness is "stuck" in an endless loop, atm.

What I see is that they are both being *internalized.*

*I messed up* acknowledges dis-satisfaction with performance.

*I will show you * demonstrates feeling a need to satisfy a standard
set by another person.

==============================================
@Markness

What insights have you gained through this thread?

The topic has been *I messed up again.*

How has this discussion thread benefited you?