I'm an expert at flirting because...

[Soup]

Most women have a keen awareness of watching out for the manipulations of guys trying to 'put the moves' on them. As a woman, if you're decent-looking (pleasant but not necessarily gorgeous) you have had every form of move put on you. I live in a French place, so it is a flirt's paradise (awkward for an Aspie who wants to be left alone!). Getting sniffed after by some guys is like having a horny moose hot on your trail: like that skunk Pepe Le Piou who would not stop harassing that hapless cat in the old cartoons! Conditioned by misogynistic movies & social idiocies that have a subtext such as:

-Bug her log enough & she'll be yours. Ignore her anger (& restraining orders!)
-Follow & stalk her: this shows initiative & determination. Women enjoy that (pepper spray is a sign of affection!)
-Do not take NO for an answer: women who say NO 100 times will say YES after the 101st time.
-When a woman dislikes or hates you,she really likes you (we women are schizoid that way...) We're really playing 'hard to get'. Underneath the rejection, we crave the attention.
-When we say NO,we really mean YES, but we need YOU to convince us of it.
-Women do not know what we want so we need some guy to clarify our desires for us.

Have you seen the above movies before? They are, apparently, romantic comedies (likely with Jennifer Aniston or someone similar in them). Disney does this too: kiss an unconscious, drugged woman (or rescue her) & she'll instantly fall in love with you. YES, folks, we're all NUTS!

You see, flirting for us can feel downright threatening. You cannot readily tell who is just a nice guy hoping to get to know a nice girl (most men) or who is a freakin' whacko who will drag you into the woods & run you through a log-shredder! The truly bad apples do not come with a convenient label on them saying 'maniac: avoid at all costs' or 'angry guy who resents women because he cannot get one to give him the time of day' or 'desperate guy using you to get over his ex' or 'mis-educated guy who sees you through the lens of stereotypes about women' or 'married man looking to cheat'.

My aunt got scammed by one such guy. He never wore a wedding ring & she had no way of knowing that he was married (with a brood of kids to boot!)...until one fateful day. They were having lunch in a restaurant. The wife had grown suspicious & she followed the guy (HOLY $#!T!!!). She angrily confronted them. Fortunately, she believed my aunt's shocked entreaties that she was NOT a mistress complicit in the deceit. She was being lied to as well! What a mess: diners got more than their money's worth that day!

The sad thing is that innocent well-meaning guys often bear the brunt of female suspicions & their intentions get misinterpreted. Some women can be extremely mean when saying NO & make a guy feel truly $#!TTY. This is wrong, but I know why it happens: that woman probably met one of those 'never take no for an answer' types & wound up getting stalked. There is a French (from France) cab-driver here who is an urban legend for initiating affairs with married women (!) e asks you out, you tell him you're married & he goes into 'Casanova mode' & tries to get you to get...involved...with him. I am one of those women who got into the wrong cab. I had him pull over, I paid the fare & hailed another cab!

 

[Ehmagerd]

I'm so sorry that people actually pay attention to and show interest in you, soup. Sounds horrible.

 

[MoCoffee]

Good morning Sparticus. This is just a gentle reminder that some women actually are attracted to intelligence.

 

[Soup]

I'm so sorry that people actually pay attention to and show interest in you, soup. Sounds horrible.

It depends on HOW they show interest. After all, a single person who wants to meet someone has got to try or nobody would ever meet anybody!

Once I say, "No, thanks; I'm married." I expect the person to go away. I am never deliberately mean to a guy (or a woman, for that matter) who approaches me. I try not to give off 'come hither' vibes (hoodie up, dark glasses, noise canceling headphones, face in a book, sitting away from crowds...) the rare time I am in a public setting.

We do have to be more careful than men do, though. Unfortunately, we are not as safe. There has been a rapist on the loose in my neighbourhood for a good 4 years now. He attacks on the bike/jogging path, outside of malls by bus stops, in parking lots...he attacks in broad daylight when people are about & about & have their guard down. He looks very average: early 30s, brown hair & eyes, med height & build, French & English speaking, regular features, ordinary haircut & clothing...could be anyone. The last time he struck, he went back into a mall, so there is a clear security photo of him. Despite that, he still looks like Mr. Anybody: he could blend into any crowd except a place full of Chinese or Black people. Understandably, women here are a little warier & more on-edge when an unfamiliar guy approaches.

 

[Ereth]

Have you seen the above movies before? They are, apparently, romantic comedies (likely with Jennifer Aniston or someone similar in them). Disney does this too: kiss an unconscious, drugged woman (or rescue her) & she'll instantly fall in love with you. YES, folks, we're all NUTS!

In fairness to Disney, that trope has existed forever. The original Sleeping Beauty is awakened by being raped, if I remember correctly. ::

 

[ifightdragons]

I was not talking about playing games or anything like that earlier. I was saying whatever behavior a guy exercises when with a girl - that makes her feel safe, appreciated, reassured and even stimulated - can be very hard to identify and adopt inherently, especially for an aspie (I'd assume).

When stuck in analyzing mode - which can be quite often and especially when nervous, i.e. with a girl - it'll break out the sweats. That's also how I interpreted Sparticus' issue.

Btw, you definitely should have kissed her on that walk. If she's into it, go for it next time
And Soup, I think you're pretty much spot on about those social subtexts!

 

[Sparticus]

Gulas I know the feeling. But after reading Dale Carnegies "Win Friends & Influence People" you will be changed forever.
My biggest problem is following up after saying hello or getting a phone number.

The start of a conversation is the hardest part for me. How can you just start? I keep over-thinking the interaction, bad thoughts like "will I act like a creep?", "I like potatoes", "Oh god, I'm so nervous." etc.

 

[Sparticus]

Ooooh maaaaannn, Gulas I have failed so many times while less worthy men have scored. Feel ya in my heart. Only recently have I learned to get any game. Women don't like intellectual men [no matter how many women ONLINE say they do-the test is getting THEM offline for a date.] Women love Elvis Presly romantic emotional Alpha males. Forget everything women say online but watch what they do offline

Sorry Aspie women but the majority of women on dating forums like Match.com, Eharmony.com, Yahoo dating groups + many other dating forums bear out what I say. MOST WOMEN WANT A MAN WHO IS OUTGOING COMPARED TO A SENSITIVE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dating forum after Dating forum-WOMEN have verbally crushed & destroyed SENSITIVE MEN vs Outgoing men. Same with "Good men" "nice men" etc. WOMEN crushed, choked & kicked the living crap out of those types of men online.

It's a Mother Nature thingie...average woman wants a man to PROTECT and DEFEND her. It's millions of years of female wiring. So learn GAME...get some dating game Gulas. Even Aspie males can learn to adapt online though it takes some time and offline I'm still...in shock when I meet a beautiful woman who is interested in me. How do I know? I used to write amatuer dating content.
Anyhoo I am a rookie in this & still learning. Body language is the key to love.

I'm learning that adaptation and body language are important. But aspies are famous for not easily read body language and to not adapt; sticking with habits. What most people take them for granted, I have to consciously learn about them.

I'm learning these subtle signs of body language, like when to go away (like short/cold answers, she's looking for an escape route, ), signs when to ask her out (she asks if I'm single, she hugs my arm, she plays with hair when there's no wind, etc). I'm usually clueless about these things. I believe in time I can learn these signs.

And it would be great if I knew how to adapt, just a bit, to the person I'm talking with. Everyone is different, have different minds, different life experiences (like harassment), different preferences. Some people like compliments, others don't, some people like loud/extroverted people, others prefer quiet ones. I'm not saying to change who I am. I'm saying it would be great to know how to react to different types of people, and still be who I am and stick with my beliefs, instead of shutting down and being avoidant.

For example, I like having intelectual/meaningful talks with girls. And if she is not that smart, she would dump me for being too nerdy. Then rejection is good, because I don't enjoy being around stupid humans. So instead of lamenting a interaction that didn't work out, I just need to adapt and move on, be thankful, stay loyal to me and who I am, and find the ones who are compatible (easier said than done). Sex and relationships aren't prizes or things you can't live without, or something you have to take or bargain for. Sex and relationships are things to share together, enjoy together, choose together, like pizza.

I guess I digressed. Yea, I'm not expert because I'm not very skillful in reading signs like body language, nor adapt when things do not goes as planned.

 

[Sparticus]

Thank you MoCoffee! Just rememer I'm an coffee lover too! Yeah I know...but offline they are RARE...online they are everywhere...
Hmmm...guess I'll have ta kidnap one of ya... ;D

Good morning Sparticus. This is just a gentle reminder that some women actually are attracted to intelligence.

 

[Ereth]

Women don't like intellectual men [no matter how many women ONLINE say they do-the test is getting THEM offline for a date.] Women love Elvis Presley romantic emotional Alpha males. Forget everything women say online but watch what they do offline

While I obviously can't speak for every woman on the planet, I have always, always been far more attracted to intellectuals (though it's certainly not a deal-breaker if people aren't; I'll take an average person with a decent heart over a genius who is cruel any day of the week). And I don't think it does anyone any good to make sweeping generalizations about either sex.

Sorry Aspie women but the majority of women on dating forums like Match.com, Eharmony.com, Yahoo dating groups + many other dating forums bear out what I say. MOST WOMEN WANT A MAN WHO IS OUTGOING COMPARED TO A SENSITIVE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dating forum after Dating forum-WOMEN have verbally crushed & destroyed SENSITIVE MEN vs Outgoing men. Same with "Good men" "nice men" etc. WOMEN crushed, choked & kicked the living crap out of those types of men online.

Wait just a minute. Have you done any in-depth studies of the success rates of "sensitive" and "outgoing" men on these sites? I don't know how many amateur articles you wrote, but you're looking at a very, very small sample size in a world of over seven billion people. If you've had bad experiences yourself, I can understand, but please don't extend them to women and men at large.

Honestly, Gulas, I don't think you'll have excessive trouble finding somebody. You sound like a friendly, intelligent person. Just be yourself and use what you learn about social cues in future conversations.

 

[Christy]

Ooooh maaaaannn, Gulas I have failed so many times while less worthy men have scored. Feel ya in my heart. Only recently have I learned to get any game. Women don't like intellectual men [no matter how many women ONLINE say they do-the test is getting THEM offline for a date.] Women love Elvis Presly romantic emotional Alpha males. Forget everything women say online but watch what they do offline

Sorry Aspie women but normal women on Match.com, Eharmony.com, Yahoo dating groups + many other dating forums bear out what I say. MOST WOMEN WANT A MAN WHO IS OUTGOING COMPARED TO A SENSITIVE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe Sparticus, the issue is not that all "normal" women are the same... maybe the issue is that the type of woman you naturally are attracted to all are like this. Or maybe those websites attract women who are not looking for intellegent males.

Just a suggestion, instead of trying to change yourself, try changing the method by which you meet women. I'm late to the conversation though, perhaps that ground has been covered.

Also, I'll point out that I am not a prize in a game of sport. The analogy of "scoring" is culturally acceptable, but a little offensive to me non the less. The idea that there are equally "less worthy" men is just as offensive to me. I am not looking for the ultimate sensitive alpha male; I am looking for a man that loves me and I can love, and that is compatible with me. Who that means practically neither values or devalues any other male compared to the one I choose and am chosen by.

Just to be clear, I suck at flirting. I find it ironic we aspies are giving each other dating advice.

 

[Sparticus]

Soup if you lived in me area I'd teach you self-defense.

It depends on HOW they show interest. After all, a single person who wants to meet someone has got to try or nobody would ever meet anybody!

Once I say, "No, thanks; I'm married." I expect the person to go away. I am never deliberately mean to a guy (or a woman, for that matter) who approaches me. I try not to give off 'come hither' vibes (hoodie up, dark glasses, noise canceling headphones, face in a book, sitting away from crowds...) the rare time I am in a public setting.

We do have to be more careful than men do, though. Unfortunately, we are not as safe. There has been a rapist on the loose in my neighbourhood for a good 4 years now. He attacks on the bike/jogging path, outside of malls by bus stops, in parking lots...he attacks in broad daylight when people are about & about & have their guard down. He looks very average: early 30s, brown hair & eyes, med height & build, French & English speaking, regular features, ordinary haircut & clothing...could be anyone. The last time he struck, he went back into a mall, so there is a clear security photo of him. Despite that, he still looks like Mr. Anybody: he could blend into any crowd except a place full of Chinese or Black people. Understandably, women here are a little warier & more on-edge when an unfamiliar guy approaches.

 

[Ereth]

I am not looking for the ultimate sensitive alpha male; I am looking for a man that loves me and I can love, and that is compatible with me. Who that means practically neither values or devalues any other male compared to the one I choose and am chosen by.

This. Forever. For everyone, regardless of gender identity and sexual preferences.

 

[Sparticus]

ifightdragons you have an excellent understanding of this topic. It's so wonderful to be with a woman who we connect with. As you said especially when we are an Aspie. I understand getting stuck in analyzing and being nervous-that's my dating life! :-(
Thanks! Yeah I should have kissed her. Instead like a little boy I asked "permission" to hug her... and since she doesn't like taking a pee at a public place [the diner] I probably hugged the pee out of her!

She didn't return my call Sunday or tonight. But ya know, I'm not really attracted to her. I just couldn't envision kissing her lips. But I kept thinking about kissing her shoulders & back. Just not her lips...that's what messsed me up at the end. Heck for all my dating blindness she could have been inviting me upstairs & I was too blind to understand that.

I was not talking about playing games or anything like that earlier. I was saying whatever behavior a guy exercises when with a girl - that makes her feel safe, appreciated, reassured and even stimulated - can be very hard to identify and adopt inherently, especially for an aspie (I'd assume).

When stuck in analyzing mode - which can be quite often and especially when nervous, i.e. with a girl - it'll break out the sweats. That's also how I interpreted Sparticus' issue.

Btw, you definitely should have kissed her on that walk. If she's into it, go for it next time
And Soup, I think you're pretty much spot on about those social subtexts!

 

[Soup]

@ Sparticus: I'm a step ahead of you: I began with Judo as a kid then went on to do Tai Chi Chuan & Praying Mantis style Kung Fu for years. He attacks people who are preoccupied: like chatting on the phone, carrying parcels, jogging with an Ipod on...that kind of thing. Either way, I avoid malls like Tuberculosis & I drive myself wherever I need to be. He takes Winters off (guess he's a sensible perv..) & resumes his activities in Spring.

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert at flirting because I can get phone numbers but not get them on the phone!!!

I met "LaMeeka" at my shopping food store last week. We both have been affected by our favorite brothers dying. Ok she gave me her number, told me we would go "out for tea" so I thought it was a good connection. Duh...when I called she never answered the phone. I called 3xs but never left a message. I'll try one more time and will leave a mesage. No matter how much of a connection or how many phone numbers I get, getting them on the phone is the problem.

 

[Soup]

Try texting, Sparticus. Some women live in Text-message land.

 

[Sparticus]

Sounds like you learned your craft! Good for you Soup. Being aware is the first rule. Btw judo is good stuff. I did full contact boxing, karate, some Judo/Ju Jitsu, NYC self defense, Korean Karate [5 years] & I was very good + Ishin Ryu Okinawa among others. Men like me have a Warrior Code. We don't hurt women; we protect you

@ Sparticus: I'm a step ahead of you: I began with Judo as a kid then went on to do Tai Chi Chuan & Praying Mantis style Kung Fu for years. He attacks people who are preoccupied: like chatting on the phone, carrying parcels, jogging with an Ipod on...that kind of thing. Either way, I avoid malls like Tuberculosis & I drive myself wherever I need to be. He takes Winters off (guess he's a sensible perv..) & resumes his activities in Spring.

 

[Sparticus]

Soup I have a COMPUTER. No texie...my cell phone is an old gift from my ex-girlfriend & doesn't text well. Hmmm...wanna be my sparring partner? ;D I go easy on you

Try texting, Sparticus. Some women live in Text-message land.

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert at flirting cause I got Tyisha's phone #. But I didn't call. Then 2 weeks later I met her again in my town. I said hello and she was like "I was wondering about you, why you didn't call." She seemed interested in me calling her but it was after work for me & I was on my way to volunteering and she was still at work. In a few days I called her but it must have been a bad time since I heard it in her voice.

Instead of me saying "is this a bad time? I'll call you back tomorrow or Thursday" I let her say "let me call you back in 10 minutes" I just said hello. She told me she'd call me back in 10 minutes. But she never called me back.