I'm an expert at flirting because...

[Ste11aeres]

There is a French (from France) cab-driver here who is an urban legend for initiating affairs with married women (!) e asks you out, you tell him you're married & he goes into 'Casanova mode' & tries to get you to get...involved...with him. I am one of those women who got into the wrong cab. I had him pull over, I paid the fare & hailed another cab!

He hasn't been fired? I mean how scary. When you're in a car, you're almost trapped. If anyone in the world should be fired...

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't know what "women" in general want. But I definitely, definitely like a guy to be really intelligent, sensitive, nice, and to respect me a lot.
I've had good luck in making friends who fit that description. (my current best friend...) (and the guys on this forum seem nice ). Romantically, I'm single, but if that were different, I would definitely hope that the guy would fit the above description. As things are right now, I've learned that even just friendship with a smart, respectful, good, nice guy can be very awesome.

 

[Historianthomas]

I don't know what "women" in general want. But I definitely, definitely like a guy to be really intelligent, sensitive, nice, and to respect me a lot.
I've had good luck in making friends who fit that description. (my current best friend...) (and the guys on this forum seem nice ). Romantically, I'm single, but if that were different, I would definitely hope that the guy would fit the above description. As things are right now, I've learned that even just friendship with a smart, respectful, good, nice guy can be very awesome.

I use to think that all I needed was a girlfriend and all my emotional needs would be meet. I realize now, that friends play a major role as well. One person can never help you emotionally. It is a combination of yourself, family, and friends that are the core support.

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert in flirting because I met Kia who had no family & socially was in trouble. Or so she told me as I listened to her stories of isolation. This was a few weeks ago. So I give her my number & she gave me hers to keep in contact & I *thought* I could help her. She was so friendly & engaging with me that I was shocked when I first called her she was numb to me...as if I was bothering her.

A 2nd phone call a few days later confirmed she wasn't interested in me. Not sure how I ruined that one.

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert at flirting because I recently got Mary's phone number. Mary had worked with me 4 years ago & she had kept in contact with office people. She is very sensitive, older than me & very well mannered including saying especially good things about me. I am not interested in her but in her/our former workmate Diane.

Anyhoo I called Mary & we clicked. The 2nd time it took her awhile to get back to me because she told me she had been feeling sick or was in the hospital. The 3rd time I called she answered & reminded me it was better to call her after 7pm. So a few days later I called her after 7pm and she never called back. Not sure how I messed that one up...

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert at flirting because I met Bella a few weeks ago in an office. Bella was sitting next to me & both our eyes locked...we couldnt' look away from each other & she smiled at me many times. She's a gorgeous woman from Ecuador & I fell into her eyes & couldn't get out of them.
I asked for her number & got it. But procrastinated in calling her for a week or so...then when I called there was only the answering machine.
I waited another week and finally got her on the phone.

We talked a bit, she kept repeating herself [that was strange!] and said "yes, you can call me back." That was last week. But she does not live in my area, indicated that was the first time she was in my area & that she does not intend on going back to this area. Since I don't habla mucho Espanol and she no hable mucho English, I doubt there is much of a future for a date. Plus she kept on informing me on how busy she was...

 

[Soup]

Those were insightful posts, Sparticus & mildly amusing at times. I think I see a ...pattern of sorts...here. With Kia, YOU did not do anything wrong BUT you came within a hair's breadth of possibly getting yourself into a world of trouble. Damsels in distress (not ALL, but more often than not) are people who mismanage their lives. They are often looking for a knight in shining armour to 'rescue' them. these women are often the kind who spiral from one crisis to another & one day, you come up for air & realize you've emptied your wallet & rearranged your life to accommodate & assist her. She may be very grateful or the sort who later act entitled to rescue since, after all, in her distorted mind, that is what 'real men' do. AVOID getting caught in a relationship with someone who needs to e rescued in any way. Fortunately, this one seems to have just wanted to chat & unburden herself on a stranger.

As for Mary, you really wanted Diane. Maybe Mary, being a reasonably smart & older woman sensed that she was more of a stand-in. As soon as the opportunity to get to date Diane came around, you would likely have cooled down to Mary.

Here's the pattern I'm seeing: In EVERY case, you ask the woman for HER number. Many women get creeped-out by guys who do this. It is a bit of a coming on too strong thing. Next time, have more than one or two nice friendly conversations with the woman &, when she gets to see that you are just a nice, simple, decent guy (not out to start calling her repeatedly or chain her up in your dungeon..) YOU OFFER HER YOU NUMBER. Many women prefer that because she has some control in the situation. With a new guy, that sense of being able to choose (without fear he may be a stalker) can be important. If SHE thinks it over & decides to give YOU a call to chat for a while, you know she is thinking of you in a positive way & is willing to get to know you better.

At this early stage, DO NOT drag out any flirtation strategies. It is too soon to put moves on someone you do not even know as a person yet. Just be a friend first & put the fact that you are really attracted to her in the back of your mind in the beginning. Be a friend first & get to know each other. You may be glad you took it slowly: she may turn out to be incompatible with you in some very fundamental ways (you know...she's a furrier & you are an animal rights activist. She is antisemitic & you are Jewish...) These are not things you can tell about a person before you get to know them. Better be sure you share compatible (not necessarily identical) values.

 

[Ereth]

To add to what Soup is saying about Mary and Diane, do not, under any circumstances, try to attach yourself to someone when you still have feelings for someone else. It will never end well for any of the parties. Not only are you lying to the "Mary," but you're lying to yourself.

 

[anne.bc]

I'm an expert because:

I'm so good that I don't even need to try. Girls even. What?! :laugh:

 

[MoCoffee]

Hey Sparticus, it might not be anything you did. Sometimes people just don't click.

 

[Gulas]

Just a suggestion, instead of trying to change yourself, try changing the method by which you meet women. I'm late to the conversation though, perhaps that ground has been covered.

Also, I'll point out that I am not a prize in a game of sport. The analogy of "scoring" is culturally acceptable, but a little offensive to me non the less. The idea that there are equally "less worthy" men is just as offensive to me. I am not looking for the ultimate sensitive alpha male; I am looking for a man that loves me and I can love, and that is compatible with me. Who that means practically neither values or devalues any other male compared to the one I choose and am chosen by.

Just to be clear, I suck at flirting. I find it ironic we aspies are giving each other dating advice.

Aspies giving other aspies dating advices is better than NT giving advice to us, we kind of know how it feels to be different, to struggle in socializing.

You pretty much nailed my main beliefs. One thing this wonderful forum thought me is acceptance. If you don't want to socialize much, it's okay. If you struggle and want to socialize, you'll find a lot of people willing to help. And that's wonderful. I find unrealistic to label people "nice guy, macho man, douchebag". A person is more than a simple label. Douchy behavior exists, but douchbags don't, MAYBE confused, lost, unhappy people, or people who learned life's lesson in a bad wrong way, I believe. I'm not defending this behavior, since I suffered too with violence/abuse when little (not much when I grew up, maybe because I became tall and got more physical strength), but abusers are usually broken in the head, they suffer, and make others suffer too to ease their pain. But I digress.

Although labeling is taught to to people since children, I try to avoid. I don't like the label of "women prefer nice guys, no women prefer tough guys" because, as mentioned, everyone is different, and have different tastes, some doesn't like men at all, and this variaty is good. We're people, not robots.

I'm not from US, but from what I've seen on tv series, they use baseball slangs (Strikeout , 2nd base, 3rd base, etc) to compare to acts of intimacy, like it's one against another, a scoring; relationships are competitions, you must take something from the other. For me it's wrong and unrealistic, because relationships or sex is something to be shared, talked about, built together.

...And I don't think it does anyone any good to make sweeping generalizations about either sex.

You couldn't be more right.

Honestly, Gulas, I don't think you'll have excessive trouble finding somebody. You sound like a friendly, intelligent person. Just be yourself and use what you learn about social cues in future conversations.

Well, thank you. Be myself and honesty is what I try always to do. And it's the best way to improve my self-esteem. No games, no fake feelings, no fake behavior, no masks. I'm striving to be real with the girls I'm interested, or with the few ones I managed to talk to, and I try to be honest to myself too. I also prefer my woman to be honest, real. If we're uncompatible, too bad, at least we were true to ourselves. If we are, great, let's get something to eat or some wine.

 

[asnlifecoach]

The best advice is be yourself but also be patient that it will take time to find a person that accepts you exactly as you are. That's good advice for anyone, aspie or not.

 

[Sparticus]

Thanks everyone for your posts, answers + patience. I haven't been keeping up checking here or some of my other threads. But I will-maybe tomorrow when my eyes get some rest. I went off topic here as this was meant to be a light hearted-my bad. I ran into the woman I had a date with. I asked her for feedback & it was very interesting answers! She's even open to me calling her again. I'll tellz ya all about it.

Remember hug each other, hold hands, laugh & play some.

 

[Gulas]

Now I remember something that happened last year. A cute blonde on class of applied mathematics started talking to me for some days. She was telling me how bad she was doing, how bad she scored on tests. She was trying to get some empathy and support.

She: I did so bad these last two tests.
Me: So you're ****ed.
She: yeah.....

Then we never talked again. Clueless was I that she was very open, trying to get some support, some hugs, or she might have played the damsel on distress (maybe, i don't know, I can't read minds). Weeks later I realised how offensive I was, but in fact, I swear a lot with my friends, I didn't know people could be so sensitive, and that I can't read people.

Looking at this fact now, my aspieness makes me laugh.

 

[Biblio-Love]

@ Sparticus: I'm a step ahead of you: I began with Judo as a kid then went on to do Tai Chi Chuan & Praying Mantis style Kung Fu for years. He attacks people who are preoccupied: like chatting on the phone, carrying parcels, jogging with an Ipod on...that kind of thing. Either way, I avoid malls like Tuberculosis & I drive myself wherever I need to be. He takes Winters off (guess he's a sensible perv..) & resumes his activities in Spring.

Awesome soup! Being a smaller woman, I sometimes feel vulnerable when lots of men are around. I don't know if men ever feel that way. I don't go out much and usually when I do my husband is with me. But sometimes when I am by myself and there are men ogling me... it makes me nervous. Of course, many things make me anxious so I have a hard time figuring out if the threat is real or imagined.

 

[Sparticus]

No joke. Every woman says that ONLINE. But offline it's a different story. Most women are attracted to the top alpha males. That's why so MANY Aspie males are LONELY. You are not my boss, you cannot tell me what to write & I have many more decades experience than you do per dating. Yes I have done IN DEPTH studies & written for dating websites for as long as half your age. HAVE YOU???????? What is the depth of your online dating studies?

Per the rules here YOU do not control me or tell me what to write. I was a CIVIL RIGHTS leader protecting Blacks, women and gays before you were born. You are incorrect, I have corresponded with and seen answers from 100,000s of women. THAT'S A VERY LARGE SAMPLE.
LEAVE ME ALONE! STOP HARASSING ME!

How many years have you studied online dating and the dating psychology between women and men? From thread to thread you harass, insult & try to tell me what to write! Leave me alone. Stop writing to me.
Stop trying to censure me. I don't censure you.

While I obviously can't speak for every woman on the planet, I have always, always been far more attracted to intellectuals (though it's certainly not a deal-breaker if people aren't; I'll take an average person with a decent heart over a genius who is cruel any day of the week). And I don't think it does anyone any good to make sweeping generalizations about either sex.


Wait just a minute. Have you done any in-depth studies of the success rates of "sensitive" and "outgoing" men on these sites? I don't know how many amateur articles you wrote, but you're looking at a very, very small sample size in a world of over seven billion people. If you've had bad experiences yourself, I can understand, but please don't extend them to women and men at large.

You could be right Christy. Not sure but a good thought. Excellent insight on certain websites that might attract women who are not attracting intelligent males. YES! I need to change the method in which I meet women. It's not working.
I wonder if the dating world is much more harsh/difficult for male aspies than for female aspies?

After all, women look beautiful and naturally attract males the way moths are attacted to candles?

Maybe Sparticus, the issue is not that all "normal" women are the same... maybe the issue is that the type of woman you naturally are attracted to all are like this. Or maybe those websites attract women who are not looking for intellegent males.Just a suggestion, instead of trying to change yourself, try changing the method by which you meet women. I'm late to the conversation though, perhaps that ground has been covered.

Thank you Soup. I try to make a funny once in awhile Cool. Kia was a head case. My bad for trying to help her. Yes! You are right; very smart & brilliant analysis! Wow that’s deep…about women looking for a Knight in Shining Armor. Yes she was in pain when I met her.

Mary-I worked with both her and Diane. I have no sexual interest in Mary & to my knowledge she has none in me. But I feel ya Soup. Mary did tell me Diane just got out of a bad relationship. Mary has many health issues, has been in and out of the hospital and never called me back.

It’s not my fault [sniff, sniff :{ ] women give me their phone numbers but don’t answer the phone!  I live in an Urban transitory area. If I see a woman, I might not see her again till a year later or never again. People MOVE around a lot in my area. If men do not approach women, then we stay lonely. But I understand your advice. Maybe I can find a social group where I can get to know a woman before I ask for her phone number. Which so far-finding a compatible social group, has been impossible for me.

Since the 1980s I have offered hundreds of women my phone #. Only 1 or 2 called me. So for me it’s a waste of time . Thank you Soup for your kind consideration in answering this! So strange how opposite women and men view the flirting & dating game
You have the best advice on this website!

Those were insightful posts, Sparticus & mildly amusing at times. I think I see a ...pattern of sorts...here. With Kia, YOU did not do anything wrong BUT you came within a hair's breadth of possibly getting yourself into a world of trouble. Damsels in distress (not ALL, but more often than not) are people who mismanage their lives. They are often looking for a knight in shining armour to 'rescue' them. these women are often the kind who spiral from one crisis to another & one day, you come up for air & realize you've emptied your wallet & rearranged your life to accommodate & assist her. She may be very grateful or the sort who later act entitled to rescue since, after all, in her distorted mind, that is what 'real men' do. AVOID getting caught in a relationship with someone who needs to e rescued in any way. Fortunately, this one seems to have just wanted to chat & unburden herself on a stranger.

As for Mary, you really wanted Diane. Maybe Mary, being a reasonably smart & older woman sensed that she was more of a stand-in. As soon as the opportunity to get to date Diane came around, you would likely have cooled down to Mary.

Here's the pattern I'm seeing: In EVERY case, you ask the woman for HER number. Many women get creeped-out by guys who do this. It is a bit of a coming on too strong thing. Next time, have more than one or two nice friendly conversations with the woman &, when she gets to see that you are just a nice, simple, decent guy (not out to start calling her repeatedly or chain her up in your dungeon..) YOU OFFER HER YOU NUMBER. Many women prefer that because she has some control in the situation. With a new guy, that sense of being able to choose (without fear he may be a stalker) can be important. If SHE thinks it over & decides to give YOU a call to chat for a while, you know she is thinking of you in a positive way & is willing to get to know you better.

At this early stage, DO NOT drag out any flirtation strategies. It is too soon to put moves on someone you do not even know as a person yet. Just be a friend first & put the fact that you are really attracted to her in the back of your mind in the beginning. Be a friend first & get to know each other. You may be glad you took it slowly: she may turn out to be incompatible with you in some very fundamental ways (you know...she's a furrier & you are an animal rights activist. She is antisemitic & you are Jewish...) These are not things you can tell about a person before you get to know them. Better be sure you share compatible (not necessarily identical) values.

Last night at a food store, I saw a beeeeeuuuuuttiiiifffuuull dark olive skinned woman. She looked Indian but I find out later she was Domenican. We started talking and even though it was 8pm and I wanted to go home, I was intrigued. We spent 15 minutes flirting with each other. Suddenly 2 younger Filipino women showed up & hugged her. I'm praying "go away I want to ask for her phone number!"

They left pretty quick and just as I was about to ask this pretty woman for her phone number when another friend, a former neighbor of hers, showed up. Holy speckled eggs! This former neighbor lady started spilling on the most gory subjects-how former neighbors suffered in cancer before they died etc. I mean it was nonstop blood & GORE!@ I looked at my watch-20 minutes since I first started flirting & counting. Should I leave or wait for this negative person to leave and get her phone number?

Then the neighbor who showed up farted! Yes I kid you not. She farted out a heavy peanut butter cloud. So there we were, standing around in this fart cloud for 5 minutes. Suddenly the neighbor with all the gory horror “our former neighbors are all dead” gossip woman left! Yippee!
I did get the Dominican’s woman’s phone number but I’m not going to call her. I could tell we were total opposites. Ok at least I tried…and survived!

 

[Sparticus]

I'm an expert at dating because after the first "hello" my mind goes blank! I mean B.L.A.N.K.! Wth! Brain freeze...I can start out real well and get a woman's interest...then..."fizzzz" the air out of a balloon goes out or so I imagine. Either I talk too fast, am too friendly, too happy or blank out into outer space...not knowing what to say. "Hey! How about them Football Giants eh?"

I wish for once I could be Clint Eastwood cool...just look em in da eye...as I git on me horsie..."well, you could say that."

Woman "oh Mr. Preacher man, come back!"

Me/Clint Eastwood "A man has to do what a man has to do" [on TV camera that is...]
Cowboy Clint Eastwood rides off into the Sunset/forest/desert/into a mental institution for being a loner...

Woman "Preacher man...I looooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeeeee you!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yeah, I want to be that cool!

 

[Christy]

I wonder if the dating world is much more harsh/difficult for male aspies than for female aspies?

After all, women look beautiful and naturally attract males the way moths are attacted to candles?

I can't speak for other aspie females of course, but I don't like being the centre of attention. I withdraw if a male shows me special attention based on my looks alone.

So basically I naturally shy away from males that show me attention, and the other males don't show me attention... so either way getting a date is particularly difficult.

The very thing you think I have working for me, is actually in effect working against me.

 

[Soup]

@ Sparticus: you had me laughing again. Mr.Preacher man? Really? What a hoot! Umm....the real Eastwood's romantic life reads like a train-wreck: 8 kids with 6 different women. Those are just the ones publicly known.

As or women wanting alpha males, if you look around, honestly, very few guys measure up to this vague ideal. It is like the alpha female thing: how many stunningly gorgeous, successful, brilliant, confident, witty & affluent women are there, realistically, out there? Even those who may look the part often lead personal lives that are tragic: I sure as hell would not trade places with Marilyn Monroe, Princess Diana, Lindsay Lohan, Kate Moss or Britney Spears & a host of other young train-wreck so-called bombshells!

Although you may well have experience with many dating site women, that still represents a relatively constricted sample since only a narrow type of women uses those services. The alpha woman type is not on 'match dot com' or 'plenty of fish' hoping to find an alpha dude millionaire. Alpha guys (wealthy execs, heirs to fortunes, celebs etc.) are not there either! Married women or those in a relationship are not there, few really beautiful women join & few elderly women do either. Most members over age 35 are either divorcees or have been in a long-term relationship that ended. Many have kids from a previous relationship & the same is true for the men. Most of the people are there because they are having difficulties meeting someone 'in real life'. Those who claim that they are too busy to meet someone are not necessarily being sincere: if they are so busy, how will they find time to devote to an actual relationship?

As for it being easier for us Aspie women, romance-wise, it may be true. Society still expects guys to be initiators & pursuers so they usually make the 1st move (& risk looking like an idiot or getting rejected). Being reasonably conventionally attractive helps, but it is a double-edged sword: you get hit on so much that it gets invasive (sometimes scary) & annoying. Also, there is a certain male arrogance, promoted in media like movies & ads (-even cartoons!) wherein really gorgeous/shapely women are (supposedly) willing to settle for unattractive guys; some who have little to offer (maladjusted, 'recovering' addicts, broke, angry...)

Look at late night cartoons for adults, for example. Look at the figures on Marge Simpson, Francine (Stan's wife in American Dad), Peter Griffin's wife, Wilma Flintstone & Betty Rubble, Jane Jetson & even Jimmy Falcone's wife 'Cookie'! Now, compare them to their husbands. Watch ads for Viagra & Cialis: the men are often balding & grey older men BUT the women are significantly younger & usually much more attractive! Beer ads are notorious for this. NEWS FLASH: shapely, stunning young women are NOT interested in schloomphy, paunchy guys (unless they're fabulously wealthy) anymore than gorgeous, hot guys are into really plain women!!!

This often happens in ads for other products too. This reflects a certain unspoken culture of male entitlement: they get to judge our looks & figure (& describe meeting a 'hot blonde' a 'tall & tanned beauty' all of which says nothing about character!) BUT if we do the same,we are shallow gold-digging biatches. I cry foul, here.

THe following happened to me last Spring in Atlanta with Mr. Soup. I was sitting in the hotel lobby. Mr. Soup ambled over, spoke to me for a bit, then went off to the concierge for some info. Some guy waltzed over & tried chatting at me. I was clearly not interested. The guy said, "What: you were friendly enough with that other guy: I'm not good enough for you?" The presumptuousness of this jerk was astounding! I got up & left. I didn't feel like I owed him any explanation of my male preferences. Even if that hadn't been my husband & I was a single woman chatting with a single guy, it doesn't mean I somehow am obligated to talk to any guy that shambled by or believes he is entitled to my attentions & justify my choices!

It is easier but harder in some ways because guys are seldom in physical danger from women (YES, there are a few crazy, psycho broads out there). We have to worry about sexual assaults of all kinds, stalkers, getting drugged & 'date raped', battered... & our comparatively smaller size in most cases (I'm a pipsqueak) increases our vulnerability. We get labeled in ways men do not: especially in some cultural communities. All you have to do is smile at some guy or make eye-contact & it means you 'asked for it'. Physical/social & cultural vulnerability complicate our lives. As Aspie women, we may be more likely to miss or misinterpret signals from a guy, rendering us at an increased risk: esp. the younger, less experienced among us. Its complicated!

 

[Judge]

I can't speak for other aspie females of course, but I don't like being the centre of attention. I withdraw if a male shows me special attention based on my looks alone.

So basically I naturally shy away from males that show me attention, and the other males don't show me attention... so either way getting a date is particularly difficult.

The very thing you think I have working for me, is actually in effect working against me.

It might make meeting people more difficult, but it also serves as a filter against guys interested in you only on the most superficial level. It also leaves you in control of a potentially awkward situation rather than someone else. I see this as a good thing, Christy.