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Is it cheating if you learn to play better watching other gamers?

🙂



Did you learn how to right the canoe? I have seen people practice that in kayaks but not in canoes. I wonder about all the water that would be in the boat. I know what you mean about taking a wave on the beam but I was in big waves once, the biggest I'd ever seen, about six feet when I was out in the bay, The trough got so deep it was dark for a moment. I remembered to point into the waves but wow, my bow went under the wave and I saw a thick wall of clear water coming over the deck towards me. It felt like slow motion. I was dry watching and then it flooded the dinghy and I was underwater in my seat. Started taking more waves on the beam after that. A rougher ride but I was dry.

My little canoe will not take 6 foot waves. I have taken on water on big lakes or in rapids. Sometimes I have to go to land after a rapids to empty water out of the boat. Righting the boat is, in theory, something one can do, but it is taught and practiced in calm water on days with good weather and empty boats. However, the most likely time to swamp a canoe is in bad weather, big waves or in a rapids. So in a sense, it is not a useful skill.
I think things should only be fun. If sailing felt miserable to someone, that is not good. I like when the boat heels. On a keelboat (larger than a dinghy, the kind of sailboat people picture when they think of boats) heels, it's so fun to me to go to the high side (the side opposite). It is like an amusement park ride to me. I can watch the foam and hear the loud water. For me it's great. Maybe awful for someone else. I feel like a sailor deep inside, like it is who I always was. Boats are more natural to me than anything else. The only place I feel calm and really at home is in a small boat shop (where boats are built and repaired).
I don't like amusement park rides either. ;)

You could start building your own boat. I don't build canoes, but lots of people I know do. I guess this would be difficult if you live in an apartment.
Autistic, better being alone, I would go to the marina during the week when no one was around, rig a dinghy and go out on the bay all alone. What a feeling under the blue sky and all the water and not another person for a mile. All alone on earth. Scary because if anything goes wrong I could die and I was scared but what a feeling.
I understand. This is why I canoe alone also. I go on long trips where I hopefully won't see anyone for weeks. It sounds scary, but for me it is refreshing. On a boat, in the water, I feel like I am more wholely who I am.
 
I understand. This is why I canoe alone also. I go on long trips where I hopefully won't see anyone for weeks. It sounds scary, but for me it is refreshing. On a boat, in the water, I feel like I am more wholely who I am.

That sounds like heaven, amazing. To be alone in nature for weeks. I have always wanted to visit a desert area I know. Just so I could for the first time ever breathe out and not feel afraid. Actually let all the fear out, completely relax my body because I know no one else is coming, I really am alone. I look at pictures of the place a lot.
 
I was never really interested in "playing the game" to win or lose.
I am the same.
I rarely finish games. (I prefer strategy games, btw)
I usually find games boring near the end-game slog.
The beginnings are so much more interesting/exciting.

Is this cheating? I wouldn't care if it was. It's a game...I'm playing it the way I want.

You paid for the game.
Enjoy it any way you like, assuming it is single-play.
 
Do you have an opinion on getting what's available now or waiting for the better version that will come in a few months? I am talking about the PS5 and the PS5 Pro that is coming in November but it is the same problem with all the other tech I need or use. I feel stuck. What if I get something and very soon they make a better version but I did not wait. But I think they always make it feel like that. Do you have advice about that kind of problem?
I have no advice about gaming consoles. The last one I used was Super Nintendo back in the early 90s. Playing on a PC gave me so many advantages that I couldn't see consoles being worth buying.
 
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Agreed.

I am not goal-oriented and don't feel a need to say I did it all on my own.
My eye-hand co-ordination isn't great so I am happy to get help where I can.

Mine isn't either, I would say I have to try hard to reach only average ability at gaming. (Judging on playing local and online multiplayer)

I know doing it by yourself is by far the least efficient way to get better and I wouldn't recommend for competitive games because you would be mincemeat.

I DIY single player games because I enjoy the process of problem solving.

I'm not a purist who is anti cheating though unless it's online. Cheating is fun!
 
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And with The Sims 1 & 3 I used the cheats to build elaborate homes.

My wife does this as well and I find it to be pretty interesting. Having no knowledge of the sims, I'm curious as to why they never made a 'creative' mode (kind of like minecraft) because it seems like a legitimately decent way to play the game, too. Some people would rather do the design / architect portion and that seems equally (if not even more) fun than the regular version!
 
Mine isn't either, I would say I have to try hard to reach only average ability at gaming. (Judging on playing local and online multiplayer)
Firstly, if you are into multiplayer, then it is a certainty, imo, that you are playing against hackers with aimbots and wall hacks.
I gave up multiplayer First Person Shooters years ago because of this.

Secondly, "nope, I got nothin'".

I DIY single player games because I enjoy the process of problem solving.
I will give it a go on my own to begin with, but with exceedingly difficult games such as Dark Souls and Elden Ring, I sometimes have a low frustration threshold.

However, The first time I played Elden Ring, I did almost everything myself.
There was the "Fire Giant" boss that took me literally days to take down.
That was elative, I must admit.

One of my fingernails was worn down as a result of it contacting the mouse pad while I moved the mouse. lol
 
My wife does this as well and I find it to be pretty interesting. Having no knowledge of the sims, I'm curious as to why they never made a 'creative' mode (kind of like minecraft) because it seems like a legitimately decent way to play the game, too. Some people would rather do the design / architect portion and that seems equally (if not even more) fun than the regular version!
Anno 1800 has this mode, too.
 
Firstly, if you are into multiplayer, then it is a certainty, imo, that you are playing against hackers with aimbots and wall hacks.
I gave up multiplayer First Person Shooters years ago because of this.

Secondly, "nope, I got nothin'".


I will give it a go on my own to begin with, but with exceedingly difficult games such as Dark Souls and Elden Ring, I sometimes have a low frustration threshold.

However, The first time I played Elden Ring, I did almost everything myself.
There was the "Fire Giant" boss that took me literally days to take down.
That was elative, I must admit.

One of my fingernails was worn down as a result of it contacting the mouse pad while I moved the mouse. lol

Beating a particularly hard boss or level is usually anticlimactic for me. Or I'm usually angry that it was such a pain and glad it's.over!
I get.more.excited anticipating having another go than winning.
 
Beating a particularly hard boss or level is usually anticlimactic for me.
"To each their own." <shrug>

For me, the end-game of most games are anti-climactic.
It is the beginning of the "adventure" that I enjoy the most. :cool:
 
In Lies of P I use a PS4 controller and I never used one until two weeks ago. I forget where the buttons are. Maybe if I got better it would be more fun then it would be an intellectual challenge and that would be fun. Now it's like driving in a race and I keep pulling the emergency brake when I want the accelerator. So many times I mean to move but freeze and the boss beats me until I am dead. I hope I can keep trying.

Just so you're aware, with Lies of P: You picked a game in a genre (known as a "souls-like") that is meant to be very difficult even to long-time gamers. And punishing, these games generally pound you flat if you make even one mistake, and some of them like to do things like break your items or whatever as a punishment for defeat. It's a type of game that is 100% not meant for beginners to the hobby.

The genre (and most "expert level" games) assumes you already have mastery of the controller to begin with (as well as various gaming concepts) and will proceed as such from the very start. The further you go, the more technical mastery / speed / coordination it will require, and watching others play cant give you that element. They can teach you the tactics. But they cannot execute them for you.

Not to mention other things that the game may want. Lies of P in particular, farming for consumables... and then actually using them well once you have them... is important overall. This genre fully expects that you understand concepts like this going in (as these concepts are very common in games as a whole), and will not teach them to you (with very rare exceptions). Some of this can be understood by watching others play, but even then, most Youtubers will assume their audience knows these things too, and wont directly explain the fundamentals even as they execute them.

I'm pointing this out to you in order to give you more of an understanding so that you can save time. Butting your head against something designed for experienced players might not help you get better (while at the same time taking forever), wheras playing something that IS beginner friendly, and then coming back to this one later, can help a lot.


I am the same.
I rarely finish games. (I prefer strategy games, btw)
I usually find games boring near the end-game slog.

Yeah, this always gets me too.

As soon as the challenge disappears, which usually happens after power-creep and such, I just get bored. No difficulty, no fun, regardless of genre.

Heck, I love strategy games, but I avoided 4X games in particular for the longest time specifically because of that. They tend to be really interesting early on, but 100 turns in... out of a 500 turn playthrough... and you've effectively already won, the rest is just formalities. Really dull. Yet you still have a thousand zillion years yet to go. And every subsequent turn takes longer and longer...

Age of Wonders 4 is the first one I found that is more respecting of the player's time (max turn count by default is only 150, compared to the 500-600 standard that Civ uses, so the pacing is very drastically faster and there's constant things happening). A lot of games need more of that, just respecting the player's time better instead of trying to pad out that playtime. Would fix the slog in many cases. Well, better balance too.
 
My wife does this as well and I find it to be pretty interesting. Having no knowledge of the sims, I'm curious as to why they never made a 'creative' mode (kind of like minecraft) because it seems like a legitimately decent way to play the game, too. Some people would rather do the design / architect portion and that seems equally (if not even more) fun than the regular version!

A sample of my past Sim "cheats"....er uhhh......designs:

Sims House 1.jpg
Sims House 2.jpg
Sims House 3.jpg
Sims House 4.jpg
Sims House 5.jpg
Sims House 6.jpg
 
Just so you're aware, with Lies of P: You picked a game in a genre (known as a "souls-like") that is meant to be very difficult even to long-time gamers. And punishing, these games generally pound you flat if you make even one mistake, and some of them like to do things like break your items or whatever as a punishment for defeat. It's a type of game that is 100% not meant for beginners to the hobby.

The genre (and most "expert level" games) assumes you already have mastery of the controller to begin with (as well as various gaming concepts) and will proceed as such from the very start. The further you go, the more technical mastery / speed / coordination it will require, and watching others play cant give you that element. They can teach you the tactics. But they cannot execute them for you.

Not to mention other things that the game may want. Lies of P in particular, farming for consumables... and then actually using them well once you have them... is important overall. This genre fully expects that you understand concepts like this going in (as these concepts are very common in games as a whole), and will not teach them to you (with very rare exceptions). Some of this can be understood by watching others play, but even then, most Youtubers will assume their audience knows these things too, and wont directly explain the fundamentals even as they execute them.

I'm pointing this out to you in order to give you more of an understanding so that you can save time. Butting your head against something designed for experienced players might not help you get better (while at the same time taking forever), wheras playing something that IS beginner friendly, and then coming back to this one later, can help a lot.




Yeah, this always gets me too.

As soon as the challenge disappears, which usually happens after power-creep and such, I just get bored. No difficulty, no fun, regardless of genre.

Heck, I love strategy games, but I avoided 4X games in particular for the longest time specifically because of that. They tend to be really interesting early on, but 100 turns in... out of a 500 turn playthrough... and you've effectively already won, the rest is just formalities. Really dull. Yet you still have a thousand zillion years yet to go. And every subsequent turn takes longer and longer...

Age of Wonders 4 is the first one I found that is more respecting of the player's time (max turn count by default is only 150, compared to the 500-600 standard that Civ uses, so the pacing is very drastically faster and there's constant things happening). A lot of games need more of that, just respecting the player's time better instead of trying to pad out that playtime. Would fix the slog in many cases. Well, better balance too.
So, Misery, can you recommend a couple of suitable beginners games that might work for grommet or others starting out int the gaming world?
 
So, Misery, can you recommend a couple of suitable beginners games that might work for grommet or others starting out int the gaming world?

This might sound like a very odd choice, but: Powerwash Simulator.

Aside from being like the most satisfying thing in the history of ever, it's a really good way to just get comfortable with a controller OR mouse for gaming. You're aiming something like in an FPS, but there's nothing coming after you. Just you VS some grime. So, a lot of the most common control elements come into play, such as getting used to the different buttons, and also accuracy with the analog sticks (particularly important for both FPS and third-person action games). But you arent getting shot at while doing that. Yet as you're doing that, blasting surfaces with that hose thing is just really darned good. The game actually got really popular, and for very good reason.

Another possibly odd choice: Goat Simulator 3. Yes, really. For a lot of very similar reasons. Again, there's no enemy, it's very much a sandbox "just mess around" sort of thing. There are challenges & "missions", but they're mostly just goofy things, and for some that can require a bit of dexterity to pull off, well, you sure dont have to do them if you dont want to (but really they're all very easy). Anytime you do accomplish a mission or whatever, chances are you're unlocking some wonky new equipment. So you're always getting rewarded for stuff, but also, since the different items often have loopy powers, they showcase a LOT of different control elements and concepts all in one game. For instance, the idea of shooting at stuff in a third-person game, or double jumping, gliding by tapping, you name a common control concept, it's in there somewhere, and probably hilarious. And the controls are actually excellent. Played on a controller, specifically, I've not played it on a mouse & keyboard, but I'm very familiar with the studio that made it, I've no doubt whatsoever that it controls just fine on a keyboard/mouse too. It's one of my personal favorite games, actually. When I want to just mess around and relax a bit, chances are, it's this game I go to.

I could also say No Man's Sky as well, if you're after something a bit more advanced, yet still chill enough to not get frustrating. Games with "survival" elements are all the rage these days, and NMS does that (and everything else) really well. It has a "creative mode" if you just want to fly around and build bases (or just use that to learn the controls in a 100% safe environment, both for going around on foot, and in your ship), but for the normal modes, the difficulty is *very* customizable, moreso than in almost any other game. You can set things just how you want them. So, you can make for a very chill, easy experience, yet still be able to interact with all of the game's mechanics. It has a rather good tutorial system as well. However, you have to be patient with NMS, as with all survival-style games, and you gotta be ready to learn. You'll sure never run out of things to do though.

Also, Minecraft. There's a reason why it's marketed at, you know, everyone, heh.

And yes I know two of these suggestions have "simulator" in the name, that's not on purpose.


I could come up with other recommendations for more specific genres, and game types though, if I know just what kind of experience someone might be after. And what they like and dont like. That sort of thing. Recommending stuff without knowing what is wanted aint easy.

What I CANT help with is finding something with like a particularly good story or something. I dont really play a lot of story-heavy games since I have the attention span of a coked-out squirrel and too many cutscenes in a game will make me want to stab something, so I aint the one to ask if a story is what you're after.
 
This might sound like a very odd choice, but: Powerwash Simulator.

Aside from being like the most satisfying thing in the history of ever, it's a really good way to just get comfortable with a controller OR mouse for gaming. You're aiming something like in an FPS, but there's nothing coming after you. Just you VS some grime. So, a lot of the most common control elements come into play, such as getting used to the different buttons, and also accuracy with the analog sticks (particularly important for both FPS and third-person action games). But you arent getting shot at while doing that. Yet as you're doing that, blasting surfaces with that hose thing is just really darned good. The game actually got really popular, and for very good reason.

Another possibly odd choice: Goat Simulator 3. Yes, really. For a lot of very similar reasons. Again, there's no enemy, it's very much a sandbox "just mess around" sort of thing. There are challenges & "missions", but they're mostly just goofy things, and for some that can require a bit of dexterity to pull off, well, you sure dont have to do them if you dont want to (but really they're all very easy). Anytime you do accomplish a mission or whatever, chances are you're unlocking some wonky new equipment. So you're always getting rewarded for stuff, but also, since the different items often have loopy powers, they showcase a LOT of different control elements and concepts all in one game. For instance, the idea of shooting at stuff in a third-person game, or double jumping, gliding by tapping, you name a common control concept, it's in there somewhere, and probably hilarious. And the controls are actually excellent. Played on a controller, specifically, I've not played it on a mouse & keyboard, but I'm very familiar with the studio that made it, I've no doubt whatsoever that it controls just fine on a keyboard/mouse too. It's one of my personal favorite games, actually. When I want to just mess around and relax a bit, chances are, it's this game I go to.

I could also say No Man's Sky as well, if you're after something a bit more advanced, yet still chill enough to not get frustrating. Games with "survival" elements are all the rage these days, and NMS does that (and everything else) really well. It has a "creative mode" if you just want to fly around and build bases (or just use that to learn the controls in a 100% safe environment, both for going around on foot, and in your ship), but for the normal modes, the difficulty is *very* customizable, moreso than in almost any other game. You can set things just how you want them. So, you can make for a very chill, easy experience, yet still be able to interact with all of the game's mechanics. It has a rather good tutorial system as well. However, you have to be patient with NMS, as with all survival-style games, and you gotta be ready to learn. You'll sure never run out of things to do though.

Also, Minecraft. There's a reason why it's marketed at, you know, everyone, heh.

And yes I know two of these suggestions have "simulator" in the name, that's not on purpose.


I could come up with other recommendations for more specific genres, and game types though, if I know just what kind of experience someone might be after. And what they like and dont like. That sort of thing. Recommending stuff without knowing what is wanted aint easy.

What I CANT help with is finding something with like a particularly good story or something. I dont really play a lot of story-heavy games since I have the attention span of a coked-out squirrel and too many cutscenes in a game will make me want to stab something, so I aint the one to ask if a story is what you're after.
Thank you, Misery.

Grommet, she’s made some recommendations you might want to look into. For starters in the video gaming activities.
 
Just so you're aware, with Lies of P: You picked a game in a genre (known as a "souls-like") that is meant to be very difficult even to long-time gamers. And punishing, these games generally pound you flat if you make even one mistake, and some of them like to do things like break your items or whatever as a punishment for defeat. It's a type of game that is 100% not meant for beginners to the hobby.

I did not know this at all. I did not know there were different kinds of games. I wanted to play it because of the way it looks but it is so difficult for me I am not having fun any more. I am starting to dislike playing it. I do not want that.

Are there games with graphics this good but beginners can play? How do I look for games like that? I want to game but I cannot keep working this hard with no fun, it makes me stop.
The genre (and most "expert level" games) assumes you already have mastery of the controller to begin with (as well as various gaming concepts) and will proceed as such from the very start. The further you go, the more technical mastery / speed / coordination it will require, and watching others play cant give you that element. They can teach you the tactics. But they cannot execute them for you.

Thank you. I did not know this either.
Not to mention other things that the game may want. Lies of P in particular, farming for consumables... and then actually using them well once you have them... is important overall. This genre fully expects that you understand concepts like this going in (as these concepts are very common in games as a whole), and will not teach them to you (with very rare exceptions). Some of this can be understood by watching others play, but even then, most Youtubers will assume their audience knows these things too, and wont directly explain the fundamentals even as they execute them.

This part has been hard for me. I am supposed to sharpen the blades on my weapons or they become useless. I did not know about that and I still do not know how. I thought the game was about fighting bad guys and getting better at that until you moved forward. I do not want consumables. I just want to pretend to be someone in a really neat looking place and have fights that can be hard but if I practice I can win. I see that when games don't let me win at all, I stop playing even if I tell myself I will keep playing.

I'm pointing this out to you in order to give you more of an understanding so that you can save time. Butting your head against something designed for experienced players might not help you get better (while at the same time taking forever), wheras playing something that IS beginner friendly, and then coming back to this one later, can help a lot.

Thank you, I want to find beginner friendly games but I want them to look good. I am worried that beginner games won't have wonderful scenery and things like RTX, cracked sidewalks, wooden planks you can see the grain in, the details. I love those. The games are really expensive, some are $60 but I would save and pay for something I can play that looks like that.

Gaming is much much bigger than I thought, I had no idea. I thought every game was the same, some looked better and that is what you paid for. I did not know some were harder. I want to game so I hope I can figure out a way I can. I have saved up now for a PS5.
 
Horizon Zero Dawn and Horizon Forbidden West are both really good. They are on PS5 and PC, not sure about macOS. They have great graphics, cool robot dinosaurs, and a great story. They have difficulty and accessibility settings to make the game play in a way that is fun for you.

It looks like Lies of P does not have those settings, which is unusual in modern games. I think you could probably play almost any game that looks good if you avoid "souls-likes" and double check to see if it has difficulty settings.
 
Horizon Zero Dawn and Horizon Forbidden West are both really good. They are on PS5 and PC, not sure about macOS. They have great graphics, cool robot dinosaurs, and a great story. They have difficulty and accessibility settings to make the game play in a way that is fun for you.

It looks like Lies of P does not have those settings, which is unusual in modern games. I think you could probably play almost any game that looks good if you avoid "souls-likes" and double check to see if it has difficulty settings.

Thank you. I am making a list, I will put those on it.

What is "souls-like" games?
 
Thank you. I am making a list, I will put those on it.

What is "souls-like" games?
They are action games that focus on difficulty and learning from dying a lot. They frequently don't have difficulty settings. They expect the player to just keep trying until they master the mechanics and enemies. The name comes from a game called Demon Souls by FromSoftware.
 

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