Newbee needing support in a strange Aspie encounter

[neurotypical1]

I have a story to share about an encounter with an Aspie man whom I met in person, became close friends with online (long distance between us) and eventually fall for romantically upon his relentless pursuit. The ending is not a good story but this is why I need your support and advice on how to move forward productively for my own benefit and to also to help him.

Over our "dating period" (through long distance intense online communication and a few awkward in-person visits) I discovered that he is likely an Aspie due to my professional training. He actually was diagnosed as a child but he hides that info from everyone including me. I did not mind his aspie traits and attributed his odd behavior (told me he wanted to marry me within the 1st month while calling me fat) and strange comments to his lack of understanding of social rules, "innocence", and "does not know better". In fact, in his case, I believe he uses that medical deficiency (which he knows of but never volunteered the information to me) to make excuses and justify his wrong behaviors.

So what did I consider "wrong"? I have chosen not to have physical intimacy with him during the time while we were pouring our hearts to each other and explained to him that I wanted wait until we had more in-person time together to know if we are compatible (he was odd, after all). He agreed the intimacy will be extra meaningful and not just a physical adventure. Suddenly, he confessed to me one day that he has signed up to online dating site behind my back (he said it was OK to lie by omission because he did not believe it would work-out with online dates anyways so why tell me in advance to hurt me). It turns out he met a woman with an Axis 1 mental illness divorced with a child, and they started a sexual relationship on the second date(all while we were still texting 3-5 hours everyday with romance and deep exchanges of thoughts and feelings). What really bothered me was that after he confessed his guilt to me, he said how much he regretted this "unhealthy sex partner/friend" and that he does not love her and he loves me more, blah blah. So I asked him why it was OK to do it to begin with, he justified it by saying he HAD TO experience sex because he was still a virgin in his 30th and I would not have sex with him yet. He then sent all the regrets and sorrow and said he wants to end with that "woman with child" (his words). 6 weeks later, he said he was unable to break off with her because she loves him and he does not want to hurt her, and that maybe continued "breakup and makeup sex" pattern is fine until she finds a new boyfriend. So I broke it off romantic relationship with him completely and made that very clear to him.

OK I know he is very sick to think "my girlfriend wont have sex with me therefore having sex with another is acceptable), and having him in my life is very unhealthy for my health. but the hurt and betrayal were still strong and real. I am mostly angry with myself for having fallen for his lies and fake romancing words. I feel so stupid that I thought Aspie do not lie usually therefore I could trust his words.

Now, the tricky part is that I still do feel responsible and care for him as I am his best friend (again his words) inspite of the fact that I realize that he is incapable of developing honest and mature relationships with himself and anyone else. I am hurt and feel humiliated by his using me and this BPD sexual partner against each other to benefit his own pleasure and moral justifications but I am not sure how to "reposition" myself. Most importantly I do not know how to walk away without first trying to help him with his self-destructive behaviors. He tells me he does not use condom during sex and does not believe the STD risk is high enough to worry, and that he does not want to marry this woman because of her anorexia and having a child already, but continues to risk getting her pregnant by unprotected sex

Dear All, do I have any obligation to help him and how? He is falling fast in his own messy head and he sometimes talks in circles with strange incoherent justifications. what are your thoughts about his problem? His behavior clearly tells me that he has no ability to make decisions and commitment to do what he cognitively knows as the right things to do (he told me the right thing to do is breaking up with her but he just could not for some reasons that he does not understand).

 

[KassieMac]

I know that no two Aspies are alike, but all I can do is speak from my point of view. If I cared for someone as much as he claims to care for you, I wouldn't be able to hide those sorts of things. I would be tormented & racked with guilt until I was compelled to tell you everything.

Considering how he's deceived you & toyed with your emotions, I wouldn't feel any obligation to 'help' him … staying in his life just reinforces that he can get away with such unacceptable behavior. It would be more helpful to let him experience the full consequences of his deception.

I don't want to start a gender war here, but to me this sounds very little like Aspergers, and much more like Testosterone Poisoning™. *ducks behind sofa to evade rotten tomatoes* But taking any gender issues out of it,

That being said, this is the view of one cynical divorced woman who's given up on romance. I'm sure others here will be able to add other viewpoints. Hope this helps.

Kassie

 

[Judge]

Ultimately every relationship is still a "two-way street" Aspie or not. There are limits to what we should have to tolerate from others, for whatever reasons. No one deserves such treatment IMO. You owe him nothing.

 

[Ereth]

Over our "dating period" (through long distance intense online communication and a few awkward in-person visits) I discovered that he is likely an Aspie due to my professional training. He actually was diagnosed as a child but he hides that info from everyone including me.

Did he provide you with any actual proof that he was diagnosed, or did you just take him at his word?

did not mind his aspie traits and attributed his odd behavior (told me he wanted to marry me within the 1st month while calling me fat) and strange comments to his lack of understanding of social rules, "innocence," and "does not know better."

Aspie or not, I would have a huge problem entrusting my emotional well-being to someone who wants to rush into marriage. And I would certainly have a problem with someone who would insult me one minute and profess his or her love for me the next.

So I asked him why it was OK to do it to begin with, he justified it by saying he HAD TO experience sex because he was still a virgin in his 30th and I would not have sex with him yet.

Oh, boo hoo. So he hasn't had sex yet. That doesn't give him the right to treat you poorly.

He then sent all the regrets and sorrow and said he wants to end with that "woman with child" (his words). 6 weeks later, he said he was unable to break off with her because she loves him and he does not want to hurt her, and that maybe continued "breakup and makeup sex" pattern is fine until she finds a new boyfriend. So I broke it off romantic relationship with him completely and made that very clear to him.

So, while claiming he's worried about her feelings because she loves him, he refers to her as "that woman with a child" and not by her name? I can smell the hypocrisy from here.

He tells me he does not use condom during sex and does not believe the STD risk is high enough to worry, and that he does not want to marry this woman because of her anorexia and having a child already, but continues to risk getting her pregnant by unprotected sex.

He's a fool. And did you just say he doesn't want to marry her because she's a mother and anorexic? If he cared about her at all, these would not even be issues. He's using her as a sex toy and that's all. I hope at least she's responsible enough to use a female condom or a contraceptive pill, because one of these days he's going to screw up---literally.

Dear all, do I have any obligation to help him and how? He is falling fast in his own messy head and he sometimes talks in circles with strange incoherent justifications. what are your thoughts about his problem? His behavior clearly tells me that he has no ability to make decisions and commitment to do what he cognitively knows as the right things to do (he told me the right thing to do is breaking up with her but he just could not for some reasons that he does not understand).

You have no obligation at all to help him. I'd say if any people should worry, it should be his family, his girlfriend, and perhaps a doctor or two. But as Judge said, you owe him absolutely nothing. This is an abusive relationship and you risk your own emotional health by staying in it.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't think he will let himself be helped by you.
Better and safer that you don't let yourself get further sucked into this, and that you walk away.
It's probably very good for your overall well being that you refrained from having sex with him.
This probably is quite painful as it seems you really do care about him. He would be very lucky in that if he were willing to let himself be helped, or better yet to help himself. But he isn't about to, and it is best not to have false hope.

Yeah, Aspies can lie or can be honest. We're really no different in that regard.

 

[neurotypical1]

Thank you all so much for your valuable feedback. I agree with you all and have made it very clear to him that I am glad that chapter is over between us. I made it crystal clear that I want the relationship to be closed so I can be objective enough to be a constructive friend from now on. Yet he does NOT respect my view at all and continues to drive me crazy by saying things like "I'm happy to have experienced our love, even though it was painful from time to time and especially in the end... And I'm not sure if it is completely closed" and "maybe we still have to take the time later to explain to each other:."

He does not get it that there is no explaining that can be productive because his brain is wired differently from others. And he also gave me a stupid card that makes no sense at all about love?? I am so frustrated that he wont just acknowledge that whatever it was between us outside of friendship is OVER so I can move on psychologically in peace. Is this the Aspie obsession that I hear so much about? Ruminating about the past and confusing it as the present? I can never, ever be sleeping with one person and claiming to emotionally be attached to another. How does he sleep at night???

 

[Ereth]

Thank you all so much for your valuable feedback. I agree with you all and have made it very clear to him that I am glad that chapter is over between us. I made it crystal clear that I want the relationship to be closed so I can be objective enough to be a constructive friend from now on. Yet he does NOT respect my view at all and continues to drive me crazy by saying things like "I'm happy to have experienced our love, even though it was painful from time to time and especially in the end... And I'm not sure if it is completely closed" and "maybe we still have to take the time later to explain to each other:."

This is why I fear he may need to be out of your life, period. If he won't let the matter drop, not much good can come of continuing to be around him.

He does not get it that there is no explaining that can be productive because his brain is wired differently from others.

I object to this . . . generally speaking, I think Aspies certainly are capable of understanding an explanation of this sort. Sometimes it has to be broken down into its simplest parts, or be given time to sink in, but I don't necessarily think his denial is related to his ASD. I'm betting he's emotionally codependent on you.

Is this the Aspie obsession that I hear so much about? Ruminating about the past and confusing it as the present? I can never, ever be sleeping with one person and claiming to emotionally be attached to another. How does he sleep at night???

I suppose you could be his obsession, but it's certainly not something I think is common. For most people with ASD, fixations tend to be on hobbies and interests and not on specific individuals. Granted, I'm not a doctor, but I think if this were a common occurrence, all of us here would be talking about other people all the time . . . and we really don't do much of that.

 

[neurotypical1]

This is why I fear he may need to be out of your life, period. If he won't let the matter drop, not much good can come of continuing to be around him.

## You might be right. Good news is that he lives in another country so I can easily control how much online contact I have with him. I only worry about his tendency for suicidal thoughts as he has had a close relative who killed himself (after having a young child of his own with a divorced woman who also already had a previous child, interesting parallel right?)

[/QUOTE] I object to this . . . generally speaking, I think Aspies certainly arecapable of understanding an explanation of this sort. Sometimes it has to be broken down into its simplest parts, or be given time to sink in, but I don't necessarily think his denial is related to his ASD. I'm betting he's emotionally codependent on you. [/QUOTE]

## You are right. I should not generalize my negative impression to all people with ASD. His denial is related to his obsession with the abstract concept of love. He claimed he loved a woman deeply before me from work. The reality of that story is that the woman never ever expressed her romatic interest in him but he believed she loved him back so he persisted with his pursuit of her. Unfortunately his action resulted in her filing to HR department for harassment and he had to move department.... It was an emotional trauma that he never got over yet he INSISTED that it was real love.....

[/QUOTE]I suppose you could be his obsession, but it's certainly not something I think is common. For most people with ASD, fixations tend to be on hobbies and interests and not on specific individuals. Granted, I'm not a doctor, but I think if this were a common occurrence, all of us here would be talking about other people all the time . . . and we really don't do much of that. [/QUOTE]

## SO yes, I believe he IS obsessed with the object of love. That is why he continues with the unproductive behavior I have mentioned with me, with this new woman (who is physically closer to him than I am) to pursue "love".

It really helps to talk with you here, the insights from the conversation is very helpful for me to piece the story together in order to find emotional closure. Thank you and please talk with me more about your thoughts!

 

[KassieMac]

Hi neurotypical1

I agree with Ereth that you'll probably do best to detach from him entirely. Also that this doesn't sound at all like anything that can be attributed to Aspergers. It appears to me that as long as he's still in contact with you, he thinks there's still a chance of getting in your pants. He'll say anything he thinks will make you feel sympathetic towards him. It's emotional manipulation, pure & simple. He doesn't sound Aspie at all to me. Best to cut him loose & move on.

Kudos to you for standing your ground regarding sex, and for asking questions instead of falling for his BS. You're a very sharp lady!

Kassie

 

[Ereth]

Also that this doesn't sound at all like anything that can be attributed to Aspergers. It appears to me that as long as he's still in contact with you, he thinks there's still a chance of getting in your pants. He'll say anything he thinks will make you feel sympathetic towards him. It's emotional manipulation, pure & simple. He doesn't sound Aspie at all to me. Best to cut him loose & move on.

I don't think his being a manipulator means he can't be Aspie . . . even if it seems unlikely.

 

[KassieMac]

I don't think his being a manipulator means he can't be Aspie . . . even if it seems unlikely.

When did I say he can't be? I just said he doesn't sound like it to me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[neurotypical1]

Hi Kassie and Ereth,
Since we live in two different countries and now I learn good objective insights from you guys there is no chance at all i will ever have a romantic or physical relationship with him. I do have to maintain a civil and mature friend-based relationship with him because we have social-activity event where we meet annually at a conference. My goal is to work towards that mutually respectable friendship without being harrassed about this false delusion he currently has no ability to understand.
Also I should mention that I work as a mental health professional so I am very certain of his Aspie diagnosis. In fact the reason I was able to be extra understanding and compassionate when he treated me badly was partly due to my professional background. I am concerned though that he denies his diagnosis even though he has already been told the diagnosis as a child. This prob contributes to his being unwell and not getting the skills training he needs.
Compassion can be a double-edge knife. It gives you a sense of purpose but can also hurt your own wellbeing.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Is this the Aspie obsession that I hear so much about? Ruminating about the past and confusing it as the present? I can never, ever be sleeping with one person and claiming to emotionally be attached to another. How does he sleep at night???

I am able to and have made another person the subject of my Aspie obsession. So it could be related to the Aspie obsessiveness, (although it doesn't really matter whether it is or not).
However, at he height of my obsessiveness I was able to recognize how this obsession harmed the other person, and I was able to force myself to back away and give them space and respect. It was hard to give them that space and respect, but I did it.
So it might be Aspie obsessiveness, but he is still able to control his actions.
Like you, I couldn't sleep with one person while claiming my attachment was for another.

 

[neurotypical1]

I am able to and have made another person the subject of my Aspie obsession. So it could be related to the Aspie obsessiveness, (although it doesn't really matter whether it is or not).
However, at he height of my obsessiveness I was able to recognize how this obsession harmed the other person, and I was able to force myself to back away and give them space and respect. It was hard to give them that space and respect, but I did it.
So it might be Aspie obsessiveness, but he is still able to control his actions.
Like you, I couldn't sleep with one person while claiming my attachment was for another.

So do you think it is possible that his ability to justify having both physical pleasure with one and emotional attachment to another is a symptom of psychopathy? He literally told his sex partner that he does not love her, and because of her BDP she clings on even more in desperately in fear of abandonment. He is falling down a rabbit hole that is so dangerous that I am scared for him.

 

[Ste11aeres]

So do you think it is possible that his ability to justify having both physical pleasure with one and emotional attachment to another is a symptom of psychopathy?

I have no idea. I don't know very much about psychopathy.

He literally told his sex partner that he does not love her, and because of her BDP she clings on even more in desperately in fear of abandonment. He is falling down a rabbit hole that is so dangerous that I am scared for him.

Sounds like she's falling down a hole also

 

[Ereth]

When did I say he can't be? I just said he doesn't sound like it to me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I apologize. I didn't mean to upset anybody.

 

[Loomis]

So do you think it is possible that his ability to justify having both physical pleasure with one and emotional attachment to another is a symptom of psychopathy? He literally told his sex partner that he does not love her, and because of her BDP she clings on even more in desperately in fear of abandonment. He is falling down a rabbit hole that is so dangerous that I am scared for him.

I do not see psychopathic tendencies here. Psychopaths/sociopaths do not feel guilt or remorse and are affected very little by what other people think of them. This guy cares very much what the "woman with child" thinks and feels:

"he was unable to break off with her because she loves him and he does not want to hurt her," and you also said "he confessed his guilt." My verdict = he is not a psychopath but a very mixed up, confused, disoriented, illogical, codependent, deceptive aspie.

While he was deceptive in his dealings with you, it is interesting that the truth ultimately came out. He was unable to keep it all hidden. So he is a very poor liar. This is typical for many aspies. Aspies do not necessarily always tell the truth but many learn that lying is a bad idea because they know they will get caught in the end. The logical solution is to just tell the truth up front and avoid all the complications lying can cause. I know I make a very conscious effort to tell the truth because it makes my life much less complicated. However, I can and do lie at times. Aspies are human too and research has shown that everyone lies. It is a matter of how much and under what circumstances.

My suspicion is that you cannot be his platonic friend because he has a romantic interest in you that he is unwilling to let go. Maybe the best way to deal with him is to make it absolutely clear that romance between you and him is never, ever, under any circumstances going to happen.

 

[neurotypical1]

I
My verdict = he is not a psychopath but a very mixed up, confused, disoriented, illogical, codependent, deceptive aspie.

.

Thank you for your sharp insight. I agree with you.

I am again stressed tonight by his out of nowhere text: "Somehow, I wondered, whether this valley of pain, sorrow and confusion may be too wide and deep for me to get through...". I hope this is not as serious as it sounds. Why is he directing this emotionally-charged text at me? I can't be responsible for his "suffering" as i am the one who has been done wrong to. What is wrong with him and how do I help?

 

[Ereth]

That's just it. You're not someone who can, or should, help. It really sounds like he needs to see a psychologist for help addressing his various issues.

 

[Loomis]

I am again stressed tonight by his out of nowhere text: "Somehow, I wondered, whether this valley of pain, sorrow and confusion may be too wide and deep for me to get through...". I hope this is not as serious as it sounds. Why is he directing this emotionally-charged text at me? I can't be responsible for his "suffering" as i am the one who has been done wrong to. What is wrong with him and how do I help?

He is playing on your sympathy. He has enough insight to know you have a deep need to try and help. But I agree with Ereth; you are not the right person to help him. He still wants romantic involvement with you and you do not want it with him. You cannot help him because he is looking for much more than you are willing to give him. It is a no win situation.