Newbee needing support in a strange Aspie encounter

[Ereth]

I really, really think that you might have to cut him out of your life altogether. I'm obviously worried about what happens to the other woman, but as she isn't here to watch me construct a giant neon-lit warning sign, I can only hope she gets herself away from him.

 

[Dusty285]

I have read much of this thread (3 pages?) and am fascinated by the depth of the psychology knowledge. My own take is that mostly there is so much evaluation of the nature of the trees that the forest has become invisible. People with the kinds of problems this online boyfriend has are beyond any individual's ability to help. Neurotypical 1: Stop communicating. Tell him it's over. One time. That coldly. No more explanations or discussion. He will never let go or be reasonable. Beyond a final (the next) Email which should say: "It's over. Goodbye." Delete his Emails unread. After a few days block him if your Email provider will do that. Or. Send all Emails to Spam. (Yahoo! does not let me block but I can put unwanted ads into Spam and then use the trash can icon to delete them all enmass.) Eventually he will give up. Very good for you and it is the best thing for him. He is manipulating you. Period.

 

[neurotypical1]

I have read much of this thread (3 pages?) and am fascinated by the depth of the psychology knowledge. My own take is that mostly there is so much evaluation of the nature of the trees that the forest has become invisible. People with the kinds of problems this online boyfriend has are beyond any individual's ability to help. Neurotypical 1: Stop communicating. Tell him it's over. One time. That coldly. No more explanations or discussion. He will never let go or be reasonable. Beyond a final (the next) Email which should say: "It's over. Goodbye." Delete his Emails unread. After a few days block him if your Email provider will do that. Or. Send all Emails to Spam. (Yahoo! does not let me block but I can put unwanted ads into Spam and then use the trash can icon to delete them all enmass.) Eventually he will give up. Very good for you and it is the best thing for him. He is manipulating you. Period.

I really, really think that you might have to cut him out of your life altogether. I'm obviously worried about what happens to the other woman, but as she isn't here to watch me construct a giant neon-lit warning sign, I can only hope she gets herself away from him.

Hi Dusty and Ereth, I absolutely agree with you that this man is of troubled mind and acting with manipulative intents with his obsession of "love". If he is a NT like me I would have run the first second he informed me of signing up to dating site to try "other options" while still wooing me online. I guess I gave/give him lots of slacks because I know he is in a way also a victim from having asperger. He has been diagnosed at a young age but denied it all his life, no wonder why he never had the opportunity to learn social skills or the "dating rules". I accepted his excuses of ignorance thinking he just needs time to learn and mature, but now I realize too that I actually became an "enabler" of his bad behavior. It will take some time until I become emotionally objective enough to cut him off completely. But yes one of my weaknesses is strong empathy and sympathy for those who has "limitations" due to a biological cause. He also has many wonderful characters as a friend/ex-suitor so I can't pretend he is all-evil no-good either. THANK YOU for your continued supportive words and encouragement, I need to hear them to stay strong and not falling back to my own empathy trap!!!

 

[Ereth]

I understand that you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt because of his diagnosis (which I would personally question unless I happened to speak to his parents or something), but ASD or no ASD, he's beyond your ability to help, and he's making you miserable. I recognize that there is good in him, as there is in most people, but don't put your emotional health at risk. In a healthy relationship, the needs and wants of both parties are met.

This relationship sounds pretty toxic, unfortunately.

 

[Dusty285]

Your pen-pal is too far away for you to be able to do anything to help him. He is manipulating you. You said he is in a different country? Cannot meet without a passport and a Visa? He is a Control Freak and you are wrapped solidly in his spider web. Use the cold cut-off or you will never never get free. If he ever comes to your country or you go to his, the nightmare will get vastly worse. Cut this thing down as an act of self-defense. You say: ". . .my empathy. . ." but that is an excuse. You are in a trap of your own making. You can open the trap and walk away and you must do that.

Find and subscribe (free online) to the James Altucher blog. Read it every day. You seriously need adopt the 'Choose Yourself' philosophy.

I am an Aspie. An old man. I was never never anything like this guy you describe. I went to extremes and overcame myself to care for and provide for my immediate family and very often for other extended-family when needed and then let go when it was time. I am very like the standard Aspie/HFA/Spectrum Member. The personality you describe strikes me as someone who may be using the fact that he knows you are sympathetic to Autistics to entrap you; is closer to a criminal personality than anything else. Your continued hanging-on is typical NT. Cut him loose. Choose and Save Yourself.

 

[Ereth]

You say: ". . .my empathy. . ." but that is an excuse. You are in a trap of your own making. You can open the trap and walk away and you must do that.

Let's not blame the person asking for help and support, okay?

The personality you describe strikes me as someone who may be using the fact that he knows you are sympathetic to Autistics to entrap you; is closer to a criminal personality than anything else.

I don't think a tendency towards manipulation and autism are mutually exclusive. Perhaps the two rarely intersect, but I'm sure it does happen.

Your continued hanging-on is typical NT.

I really don't think this has anything to do with the fact that the OP is neurotypical.

 

[Dusty285]

Ereth: You should read James Altucher also.

I am not blaming anybody or intending to involve 'blame.' This is a normal and common thing we all do to ourselves. the more normal we are the more likely we are to do it.

Manipulation and 'Control' are beyond normal or typical tendencies. What I read about the boyfriend brings up memories of the movie "Sleeping With The Enemy."

I do not intend to argue with anyone. I am trying as intensely as I can to encourage the primary person of this thread, "Neurotypical 1," to drop an obviously toxic and possibly dangerous relationship.

I will not respond or comment any more in this thread. It is becoming toxic to me.

 

[Ereth]

Thanks for your recommendation, but I am fully capable of taking care of myself. Most of the advice that that blog has for me is likely superfluous at this point.

 

[neurotypical1]

.

o

Dear Friends, I appreciate all of your advice and suggestions regardless of how different or diverse they may be from each other. Because I know they are uniquely shaped by your own life lessons and that how well-meaning you all are to me. So please, don't take anything others said too personally or let it affect your mood! We as human beings have created words to define diagnosis for the purpose of finding solutions and improving symptoms, not to create discomfort or stigma. I feel I am no different from people who suffer from neurological disorders in selfworth or value, and in fact it is because all of you here I am learning to cope better to a disappointing "break of trust " from an aspie friend.

So, thank you again for replying to my voice and for the discussion with each other. I hope we can continue in non-defensive attitudes and keep an open mind to learn from one another. Cheers!

 

[Sass]

In all honesty, this doesn't come across as an issue of ASD/mental health/psychopath etc to me. What it seems like is someone treating you like sh*t and being manipulative, and that it should stop.

From what you've said, you've done everything you can. Even those with a serious mental health problem often won't let you help unless they're ready (trust me I know, my family is mad, ha!). When you can't do any more, and it's having a detrimental effect on you, that's the time to stop contact. What he does after that is not your concern, or your fault. You'll be a lot happier though, once you cut ties, even if it takes a while to get over it, and you should feel proud knowing you tried to help, even if it didn't take. Most people don't even try to help any more.

A lot of the stuff out there on ASD/mental health promotes the idea that we should be given the same understanding as other people/treated as an individual etc etc. If that's the case, then treat him as you'd treat someone who wasn't on the spectrum (if he even is) who was that vile to you, and cut him loose.

 

[wooden_horse]

You are quite right in everything you say and I think you are handling your terrible encounter brilliantly. As I started off by saying, I'm newly diagnosed with Aspergers at 59 and so still unravelling my own history which I'm now to believe I got horribly wrong, so I don't know what kind of weight you can put on my views. You and I are two strangers on a blog, you have been through the experiencies I can only read about, so it's your judgement that counts here. I've not spent my life leaping into bed with available women, (I don't understand that terrifying prospect at all, actually), but I have got some aspects of my relationship life SO wrong over the years. Though they are wrong concepts I can understand some of the things this bloke you have been unfortunate to meet thinks. I was encouraged by reading your intitial blog because I thought "Here is some guy even more broken than me!"

 

[neurotypical1]

In all honesty, this doesn't come across as an issue of ASD/mental health/psychopath etc to me. What it seems like is someone treating you like sh*t and being manipulative, and that it should stop.

From what you've said, you've done everything you can. Even those with a serious mental health problem often won't let you help unless they're ready (trust me I know, my family is mad, ha!). When you can't do any more, and it's having a detrimental effect on you, that's the time to stop contact. What he does after that is not your concern, or your fault. You'll be a lot happier though, once you cut ties, even if it takes a while to get over it, and you should feel proud knowing you tried to help, even if it didn't take. Most people don't even try to help any more.

A lot of the stuff out there on ASD/mental health promotes the idea that we should be given the same understanding as other people/treated as an individual etc etc. If that's the case, then treat him as you'd treat someone who wasn't on the spectrum (if he even is) who was that vile to you, and cut him loose.

He is definitely on spectrum (no doubt) AND is an asshole!
My real problem is within myself because he is not going to change. I need to adjust my own expectation of him from the previously misled attraction to absolute clarity in seeing him/his flawed characters as they are. "Cutting him off" is a nice way to avoid dealing with the immediate anxiety but in the long term (since we are socially connected and it is unavoidable to see him annually) it will just backfire. I rather be aware of my feelings as I learn more and more about his flaws and come to accept him as a flaw friend who I can still manage to hold basic level of respect for.

 

[neurotypical1]

You are quite right in everything you say and I think you are handling your terrible encounter brilliantly. As I started off by saying, I'm newly diagnosed with Aspergers at 59 and so still unravelling my own history which I'm now to believe I got horribly wrong, so I don't know what kind of weight you can put on my views. You and I are two strangers on a blog, you have been through the experiencies I can only read about, so it's your judgement that counts here. I've not spent my life leaping into bed with available women, (I don't understand that terrifying prospect at all, actually), but I have got some aspects of my relationship life SO wrong over the years. Though they are wrong concepts I can understand some of the things this bloke you have been unfortunate to meet thinks. I was encouraged by reading your intitial blog because I thought "Here is some guy even more broken than me!"

First of all thank you for your kind words!
I put a lot of weight in your view because it is the subjective opinions of the individual living with asperger that can most effectively help me comprehend the "logical choices" that man is making.
I am curious though as to why you think some aspects of your relationships went wrong? Were they broken because of the miscommunication? wrong choice of partners? wrong place and wrong time?
Relationships in NT world are NEVER easy either. People take each other for granted by default, and divorce and break-ups are just too common and acceptable in our society in general.
I think this man I wrote about has a good heart but he has NO CLUE about the rules of relationship or how his conduct affects others' feelings. He is the most self-centered (selfish) human being I know, althought it is partly due to the constant cognitive dissonance that he being one of the most intelligent/productive workers he has never succeeded in keeping friends or getting girls in his real life to like/date him and have a physical relationship with (until this AN/BPD woman with child). He is really very confused - still he insisted that he loved me more than everything else in the world and that the betrayal "did not mean he did not love me". This really illogical mindset is suggests to me that he is not well.
The funny thing is, even though in all accounts I am the "victim" in this encounter, I feel like I am the empowered one here. I feel hurt, and take responsibility to process the hurt and adjust my expectations to achieve a better outcome for everyone. It is not my fault that he does not want help so I now feel less guilty about that. I still feel BAD to see him continue the self-destructive path and get irritated when he confess how much he misses me (I know he is doing it to serve his own ego and get attention), but I am not going to let them hurt me anymore. His problems belong to himself as that is his choice. As a friend, I will listen and I will give advice (outside of relationship) but I won't do anything else.

 

[tw3]

Dear NT1,
He's playing you.
I'm 70 years old, an Aspie my whole life and the only motivation I might have had (but didn't) when I was young was to feed my ego by having two women. This is not an Aspie thing. This is lust. He's trying to keep you on a string in case he loses the other woman. His talk about "love" is lies. Please run from this situation for your own good.

 

[rollerskate]

NT1, if cutting him off isn't possible then you definitely need a break. It's impossible to gain objectivity and clarity on the situation while you're still actually IN IT.

Personally, I'm starting to sense some dependency and control issues going on with you. I'm not saying that to attack you or be mean. I have had the same issues myself in the past. Especially with the "I'm trapped so I might as will learn to control the situation as much as I can" mindset. Freedom is a state of mind, you can only be trapped if you allow to let yourself think there's no escape. If you have common friends and those friend don't respect your wishes enough to keep you (and talk of you) separated from the other, drop the friends too. In the end it's about what YOU want the most. Most desires in life come with sacrifices that must be made. When you try to rig the game so you can have your cake and eat it too, you usually just end up screwing yourself over in the end.

Even if you could get inside his head, you still wouldn't know how to perfectly manage him. Take it from an Aspie, people in general are a puzzle that can't be solved. They're like pi. You may think you have a pattern going and know what the next digit is, but that's always the exact moment the whole series changes to complete randomness. And then it finds a new pattern...

And no one here is going to be able to help you understand this cat. We're not him or anything like him. About the most we can do is speculate and judge, and that's not even valid because we don't know him, just what you've told us about him, and of course you've got bias... And forget details... And miss details... Etc. This is just text after all about someone none of us will probably ever meet.

Instead of worrying about him, focus on you for a change. You deserve it after all you've been through with him... And it's something that's realistically in your realm of control to modify.

 

[neurotypical1]

Dear NT1,
He's playing you.
I'm 70 years old, an Aspie my whole life and the only motivation I might have had (but didn't) when I was young was to feed my ego by having two women. This is not an Aspie thing. This is lust. He's trying to keep you on a string in case he loses the other woman. His talk about "love" is lies. Please run from this situation for your own good.

I know he is playing with women to support his ego. I also know he is a loser and has a lot of growing up to do. But I think I completely lack the ability to "detach" so the past friendship/romantic bonding makes it hard to turn him into a villain by a switch of a thought. I will do my best to try though as I am fully aware of how damaging his influence he is on my emotional health.

 

[neurotypical1]

NT1, if cutting him off isn't possible then you definitely need a break. It's impossible to gain objectivity and clarity on the situation while you're still actually IN IT.

Personally, I'm starting to sense some dependency and control issues going on with you. I'm not saying that to attack you or be mean. I have had the same issues myself in the past. Especially with the "I'm trapped so I might as will learn to control the situation as much as I can" mindset. Freedom is a state of mind, you can only be trapped if you allow to let yourself think there's no escape. If you have common friends and those friend don't respect your wishes enough to keep you (and talk of you) separated from the other, drop the friends too. In the end it's about what YOU want the most. Most desires in life come with sacrifices that must be made. When you try to rig the game so you can have your cake and eat it too, you usually just end up screwing yourself over in the end.

Even if you could get inside his head, you still wouldn't know how to perfectly manage him. Take it from an Aspie, people in general are a puzzle that can't be solved. They're like pi. You may think you have a pattern going and know what the next digit is, but that's always the exact moment the whole series changes to complete randomness. And then it finds a new pattern...

And no one here is going to be able to help you understand this cat. We're not him or anything like him. About the most we can do is speculate and judge, and that's not even valid because we don't know him, just what you've told us about him, and of course you've got bias... And forget details... And miss details... Etc. This is just text after all about someone none of us will probably ever meet.

Instead of worrying about him, focus on you for a change. You deserve it after all you've been through with him... And it's something that's realistically in your realm of control to modify.

I agree with everything you said, absolutely.
The dependency lingers from being named as his "best friend" and "woman he should marry" for months, and the need for control is a response to sudden lost of "control". I acknowledge and am aware of these natural emotional responses to a horrible awakening. What is particularly hard for me is to just "detach" and "let go" of emotional residues. I do believe that I have good cognitive objectivity/clarity even though the emotional residues will take longer to process and clean out. The support from the forum helps to keep my mood positive. So thank you for all your loving thoughts and words!
Also, I do not wish to manage him, but I want to be able to manage my emotional response to him and his bad behaviors. This is the ultimate goal as I can not change others and but I can change how I am affected by them. I am working hard on it!
Yes I will take good care of myself. Thank you so much!

 

[wooden_horse]

First of all thank you for your kind words!
I put a lot of weight in your view because it is the subjective opinions of the individual living with asperger that can most effectively help me comprehend the "logical choices" that man is making.
I am curious though as to why you think some aspects of your relationships went wrong? Were they broken because of the miscommunication? wrong choice of partners? wrong place and wrong time?
Relationships in NT world are NEVER easy either. People take each other for granted by default, and divorce and break-ups are just too common and acceptable in our society in general.
I think this man I wrote about has a good heart but he has NO CLUE about the rules of relationship or how his conduct affects others' feelings. He is the most self-centered (selfish) human being I know, althought it is partly due to the constant cognitive dissonance that he being one of the most intelligent/productive workers he has never succeeded in keeping friends or getting girls in his real life to like/date him and have a physical relationship with (until this AN/BPD woman with child). He is really very confused - still he insisted that he loved me more than everything else in the world and that the betrayal "did not mean he did not love me". This really illogical mindset is suggests to me that he is not well.
The funny thing is, even though in all accounts I am the "victim" in this encounter, I feel like I am the empowered one here. I feel hurt, and take responsibility to process the hurt and adjust my expectations to achieve a better outcome for everyone. It is not my fault that he does not want help so I now feel less guilty about that. I still feel BAD to see him continue the self-destructive path and get irritated when he confess how much he misses me (I know he is doing it to serve his own ego and get attention), but I am not going to let them hurt me anymore. His problems belong to himself as that is his choice. As a friend, I will listen and I will give advice (outside of relationship) but I won't do anything else.

 

[wooden_horse]

I've just failed over 18 months trying to explain to my wife of 27 years what life is like for me, making us both terribly depressed and ill in the process, so I am unlikely to be able to explain it on here. I'm not in the right place at the moment to try. I guess there is a lot of miscommunication that goes on, and I have come to realise that my concept of, and use of the word 'love' must be fundamentally flawed. I'll probably start my own thread when I can talk about this.

 

[neurotypical1]

I've just failed over 18 months trying to explain to my wife of 27 years what life is like for me, making us both terribly depressed and ill in the process, so I am unlikely to be able to explain it on here. I'm not in the right place at the moment to try. I guess there is a lot of miscommunication that goes on, and I have come to realise that my concept of, and use of the word 'love' must be fundamentally flawed. I'll probably start my own thread when I can talk about this.

{{{{{{HUGSSS}}}}}
I am so sorry to hear about your ongoing difficulties with your wife. Please take the time you need to process and take it easy with the emotional ups and downs. Untangling misunderstanding takes more time than we realize because we may try too hard at first. Trust in the love that has kept your marriage together for 27 years as foundation to understand new perspectives. I will be thinking good thoughts for you. Please drop a line here to let me know when you start your own thread as otherwise I may miss it. Take care!